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J

Jettywolf

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motor---area.jpgMotor---closeup.jpg

Let's play....name that "hole" in the block.

water spews, all over the place. This is a good one for you mechanic types.
 
The perfectly round nature of the hole suggests that it once contained one of the little steel balls that Honda seems to be fond of using in cross drilled passages. Hard to tell from your pics is why they would have one there though. Might be a sort of "expansion plug" used to relieve fracture stress in that part of the casting.
Sounds good anyway. Do I win?

At any rate, I'd be finding a new oversized ball or an appropriate little machine screw with some good ol' Permatex on it and be gettin' on out the channel.
 
BUURRPP!

I have no clue of what you discribed. But it's a hole coroded in that water passage because of an obvious flaw in the casting in that spot, just 3-3/4 years after brand new.

Around the small hole is solid. It was squirting water staright up (saltwater) all up under the cowling. Making a otherwise super squeeky clean motor a real mess.

The (cross my fingers) fix was to tap out the hole and hope to get some decent threads. Slather in JB WELD and continue on my way................VERY, VERY disappointed in my supposed premier product.

1st it was chipped teeth in the gears in the lower unit. At a year and a half. Then three months a go it was SOOOOOOOOOO much corosion build up around the "vertical shaft bearing" that it got tweaked and was rubbing on the drive shaft and maiking a gawd aweful sound. Then the corosion made for a 3 hour sweaty brutal chore just to get the driveshaft/ Lower unit off the motor.

Now this!

Yamaha, OMC, Merc, Suzuki, I have owned them all as 2 strokers, each one blew up . THis Honda was my 1st 4 stroke. And has been a night mare, with so much down-time. I thought HONDA would be different, a quality product. But turns out to be just a Toyota Prius instead.
 
Hmmmm. I assume you are running in saltwater. Are you flushing the engine properly with fresh water after every use?

Are you still under warranty? I sure would have your dealer squalking to Honda about these issues.

I've heard about the drive shaft problem on previous posts. Seems like it is most likely to happen with the 30" shaft models.
 
One of the "premium" things you did receive when you bought the Honda was a 5 year fully transferable warranty and, at 3 1/2 years in, not sure why you would (or should) be doing the work yourself.

Threads and JB weld??? That sounds close enough to what I proposed that I declare myself the winner of "name that hole".....BELLLLCH.
 
Warrenty??????? Oh yeah, Honda's a real winner there. Yes, they wanted to send me a "BACK-ORDERED" empty block. Pay the mechanic to swap all the parts in my present engine and put all my old parts in a new shiney block. Me paying zero. I guess.

A Block? I may see that in 2-4 weeks. Then even my mechanic said, "good gawd there's inherent human error in such a move. They should send a whole long block and take care of their customers in a timely fashion, this isn't like the customer made a the bad spot in the casting of the block."

Then, 2 weeks to get the motor up and running hopefully without human error problems. I was told if it was a Yamaha, it would have been a different story. Because my mechanic shop does both.

I can't do end of October to maybe have a running engine. So we tapped, threaded, and plugged their "block casting problem" and I'm now on my way $770 later, out of my pocket.

It's a LEMON. I think. First year was chipped teeth in the forward gear set. Then, in the last three months I've spent $1200 keeping this 3 year, 9 month old engine running. From a squealing Verticle Shaft Bearing that wouldn't let the lower unit drop out due to a build up of corrosion/salts that NO flushing will get rid off, to a hole in the block.

And BTW.....the engine is meticulously maintained by a mechanic, flushed 10 minutes from out of the water, each day, and cared for like a family dog.

Buying a spare end of this month. So I can just Plug-N-Play next time around.
 
Jettywolf,

I understand your frustration. As JGMO stated, you shouldn't be out any significant money on these repairs. Under their warranty Honda should be paying the dealer for the repairs and swap out, not you. But I understand that time and timing are real issues.

I had a similar problem, but a completely different outcome. I took my engine back to the dealer for it's first 200 hour maintenance run and they found metal filings in the oil. With minimal back and forth with Honda, they shipped a new short block and oil pump and stated if any filings were found in the heads, they would also replace them. The dealer switched out the block and pulled the 200 hour at very low cost to me. I've had no significant problems since. The dealer and his technical crew did an outstanding job.

I would not worry about bolting on the original peripherals, which is their SOP.

Just be sure to pull the same break-in maintenance after the first 30 hours on the new block. Primarily that is changing the oil and filters, and checking the valve clearances.
 
Ditto Chawk...Honda does not offer a long block. Checking availability at this moment. There are two short blocks of the older style and 6 of the newer style.

Changing out the block is a lot of work, but Honda will pay the dealer to do it. You are only responsible for the incidentals like spark plugs, oil, etc. (That part seems a little petty to me, but that is the way they handle it)

Changing the short block could also help with any other potential issues that can be identified as the motor is disassembled. The problem that caused the patch may not be the only issue going on inside the motor.

Sorry you are disappointed.

Mike
 
So far I'm having them do nothing. My mechanic said it's an empty block....as in HOLLOW. Not a short block, not a long block. Could this be a lack of communication? Maybe, all I know is what he told me he heard. And it's back-ordered. All my parts from my present engine, going into the new hollow block.

Not good. As of now all that's on hold, till I get my spare 225 Honda in my garage.
 
I'm just a user who takes a big interest in having a good-running outboard. But I seriously doubt you are getting a hollow block. If so, let us all know. You should be getting a short block.

Question: Is your mechanic who is doing the work on your engine associated with the dealer who sold you the engine? If not, you need to get them all on the same page.

Given what you paid for that engine and the problems you have had, I would be having a very serious conversation with Honda Customer Support about (1) refunding the cost of repairs (2) replacing the whole engine (or the short block, as a minimum) at NO cost to you except for expendables.
 
I have done 2 of these (see Pics)

Japan knows about this problem! The 2 engines I have done were replacement short motors I had already installed. Both engines developed this hole 12 months after the new short motors were installed.

On both occaisions Honda Australia (and eventually Japan) approved new short motors and full rebuilds for the cylinder heads. The owner was only out of pocket normal service Items.

This is one problem I went hard at Honda as this SHOULD not happen.

Garry
 

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Yep, and they told my mechanic that they've never seen such a thing.
That hole is just to the LEFT of where mine was. Mine as you can see was between the two "casting holes" that you can see one of in that photo.

What year was the motors you worked on? Mine is a 2006 BF 225.

Gives ya lots of warm fuzzies in your head about Honda doesn't it?
 
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I can see by this thread and the one and only warranty thing on my 225, Honda is being pretty hard nosed about stuff and is not pursuing the customer relations like they use to do. Maybe, they know of these problems and are trying to hide them in the shuffle. I plan on keeping my Honda, it is like a marriage, til death do us apart :)
 
The 2 engines in question were water taxis that I replaced the short motors on they had done 3800 hrs when I replaced the short motors

The replacements only lasted 12 months before developing this hole.. I have never seen a production engine do this so I thought it was just a replacement part Issue.
 
QUOTE: """Yep - clearly a breakdown in communications somewhere along the line. This should be a no-brainer on Honda's part. """

Let me reinterate....They wanted to send me a "back-ordered" empty block, and pay for it to be changed out with my stuff from my block, but that doesn't make sense to me. And I'd be without a boat for a month or more, right now.

So...the mechanic plugged the hole. And now the story is, "No more block is coming. I believe we just voided that option."

How can that be??? He got me going at a cost of $770 outa my pocket. And why can't I still get the block and they pay him to do the work?? He made ME happy because I'm the customer, isn't that the way it's supposed to be?

I still need the block, and I'll decide when I can lay up for a "2 weeks to a month."
Maybe when it's cold and the winds blowing in Feb.

I'm buying a spare used engine anyhow, in 10 days.
 
Let me reiterate my previous post...

Question: Is your mechanic who is doing the work on your engine associated with the dealer who sold you the engine? If not, you need to get them all on the same page.

Your dealer should be your advocate on this issue and should be talking to the Honda regional representative. If they are not responsive, or you are not satisfied with their response, then talk directly to Honda Customer Service in Atlanta.

Given what you paid for that engine and the problems you have had, I would be having a very serious conversation with Honda Customer Support about (1) refunding the cost of repairs (2) replacing the whole engine (or the short block, as a minimum) at NO cost to you except for expendables.

If they refuse to honor the warranty, then I would be having a serious talk with an attorney.
 
Yep, that's all well and good....but what I'm gonna do is ask for the new block and labor, ON MY TIME, as they stated they'd do in the beggining.

There should be no "stipulations", especially when ME, the customer states that I just want to get down the road, RIGHT NOW. So make it, "fixed". So I opted for a plug in the hole.

I agree, It makes no sense to not send the block anyhow.....especially when I just sent my mechanic the photo of another block with a hole in it in Austrialia.
(I want him to send it to the rep he deals with.) But I'm just a grain of sand in the big Honda Global world.

The mechanic is not a dealer from whom I purchased the motor. I choose a honda, and the boat is a custom built hull. One at a time. The builder is a Honda "hang 'em on transoms" at the factory type dealer. That's all.

NONE if this would have been an issue if the Honda rep said, "wow, never seen a hole like that...let me just send a new powerhead because that hole looks like trouble."

Instead, my mechanic told him. "This engine is super clean and runs like a top. But we have a hole in the block." That's when the rep said, "we don't need to waste parts then...we'll just send a back ordered empty block."

And then, I said...."how long is that gonna take? 4 weeks for a block? Then 10 days to swap all my parts into it and make sure nothing is screwed up, or no human error happened?"

No way!

Then, I went and found a used engine just like mine. And decided I'll own a spare that I can just swap-out myself, if more Lemonized BS happens to this engine.

T-H-E-N, I can take the hole in the block engine to my mechanic and they can take all the time they need to swap the blocks. And I won't be out of a boat or motor.

That's called, Happy Customer + on my terms = Honda do the right thing.

Me, customer. Dictates what, when and how my $18K investment is handled.

This ain't tinkertoys were talkin'. It's a huge investment. I've never owned a 18K Truck, even. But many 18K motors.
 
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