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Getting my 20 running again!!

C

ChrisHarding

Contributing Member
Hi Guys .. I had a medical issue at Easter with a scan showing I had a bladder cancer tumour which went on with surgery and chemo up to the end of last month BUT all is better now. Sadly my 20 sat in the water for that 7 months not doing anything so I'm trying to get it running again. Replaced the fuel filter but forgot to drain the carb float chamber so did that first and gave the carb itself a good carb cleaner spray. The motor turns over and starts pretty easily but sadly only runs for about 3 seconds and then dies. I actually replaced the carb with a brand new one in March. What can you suggest next ? Pull the carb off and try a deep clean or is it something else preventing it from running for just 2 or 3 seconds

Thanks for any suggestions Chris
 
Hi Chris,
Just my opinion but yes, i think that the carb might need to be cleaned.

Although first you might want to disconnect the drain tube from the nozzle on the side cover and try spraying carb cleaner up into the float chamber with the drain screw open. That might dislodge any "gunk" or fuel gel that may have built up during the lay over.

Try to capture some cleaner in the bowl by closing the drain screw while spraying. Disconnect the emergency stop and pull the engine over a couple of times to distribute the cleaner a bit and let sit for an hour or two. See if that can get her going. If so, run a heavy dose of Sea Foam in the gas for a tank full.

Glad to hear that you got better. I've had my own health problems lately so I feel what you went through.

Merry Christmas!
 
Hi Chris,
Just my opinion but yes, i think that the carb might need to be cleaned.

Although first you might want to disconnect the drain tube from the nozzle on the side cover and try spraying carb cleaner up into the float chamber with the drain screw open. That might dislodge any "gunk" or fuel gel that may have built up during the lay over.

Tru to capture some cleaner in the bowl by closing the drain screw while spraying. Disconnect the emergency stop and put the engine over a couple of times to distribute the cleaner a bit and let sit for an hour or two. See if that can get her going. If so, run a heavy dose of Sea Foam in the gas for a tank full.

Glad to hear that you got better. I've had my own health problems lately so I feel what you went through.

Merry Christmas
 
Thanks JGMO
Brilliant idea! I will do that today!! Apart from the tumour my left kidney caused a lot of bleeding (fixed now with a bypass stent to my bladder) I lost a huge amount of red blood cells so there was no chance of getting to the motor so it was a late night ambulance to the hospital and into theatre so the poor motor suffered!! Hope you have an awesome Christmas too!!!
 
Just so you know, there are two little "tunnels" in the very bottom of the float bowl. One of them feeds fuel to the accelerator pump piston and the other one feeds the starting enrichment "well" that supplies the dip tube that picks up the fuel for cold start.

Your symptom sounds like the feed passage for the start enrichment may be partially clogged.

It's a problem for these carbs because those passages can get packed solid with crud and need to be Roto-Rootered out with a piece of wire.

However, your outboard didn't sit all that long so, hopefully, my little trick works.

It's too bad that it's almost impossible to take the float chamber off and put it back without removing the carb or it would be easy to check.

I've been to the ER more times in the last 6 months than the whole rest of my life. And that's counting two major car crashes.

Your ordeal was truly life threatening and it's good to hear the Docs had an effective answer for you.

Keep On Truckin' Brother!
(Boatin' too!) (y)
 
Thanks for that extra help too. After they found the bladder tumour it was surgery within 3 days ..it cannot be cut out cos the bladder wall is simply too thing so they "scrape" it internally and then zap it with chemo. They are also treating me with a new fangled immunotherapy which I have just once a month and a PEP scan every 3 months (Had my latest scan today so hopefully it's also clear) I have to have my bypass stent tube changed next Friday so hopefully that is the last of the Procedures!! Australia is pretty good with health care and if you are 67 or older everything is free ''(from Easter Friday 2025 right up to today I havent had to outlay a cent which is incredible!!

Yeah I reckon that those channels are blocked cos the motor starts first touch but dies soon afterwards. Not a huge deal to drop the carb off and drench it with carb cleaner and the might try running a length of weed wacker plastic line to shift any blockage in those passages!!
 
Hmmm I have taken the carb off and the brass tube going to the accelerator pump side doesnt allow a sewing needle to pass thru but the enrichment tube seems fine. The former also had some green gunk on it!! ..have everything a good spray. I haven't fitted the carb again as I'm having an issue with the rubber o-ring which seems to be slightly too big for the groove in the float chamber cover. I did see a few white marks on the rubber o-ring which looks like contact adhesive so are you supposed to use contact when refitting to stop the o-ring jumping out the groove?
 
No adhesive on orings, I use a little silicone spray to get orings to slide in.

Is the oring soft and pliable, if not replace it.

Is the white stuff on the oring hard/firm, if yes replace the oring. Is there any hard stuff in the slot where the oring fits? Make sure you clean that out without scratching any surfaces.

The green stuff you are seeing is likely some form of mold from ethanol in your fuel, I’ve seen that in my generator. If it’s there, it’s also in places where you can’t see it.

I’ll let jgmo advise you on cleaning those little passages, some people use steel bristles removed from a brush, the passages are very tiny.
 
Thanks for that! I cleaned off the O-ring and it's slot in the float chamber cover. It goes it very easily BUT it's basically just too big .. if you care fully put it into the groove when you get to the final bit it overlaps ..Can the O-ring "stretch" my last carb had no issue but as soon as I removed the 4 screws on this carb (only 6 months old) the o-ring literally fell out the groove as part of it was already out of the groove. Could carb cleaner physically make it bigger than it should be??? Very strange!!!!
 
Hi Chris,
I have been having trouble using this site so couldn't answer you. They tried to fix it but I think the problem is on my end.

Anyway, very common for those seal rings to not fit after removing.
You should always have a new replacement on hand because of that.

I had tried to tell you that the accelerator pump circuit should be cleared. If it's clogged, even a little, the carb won't work properly. DON'T probe the jets or passages with sewing needles or anything too large. NSDON is correct about using wire bristles but be very careful NOT to break one off!! Those are very brittle and can be impossible to remove once inside a passageway.

If the accelerator pump circuit needs cleaning, you should start with the delivery nozzle that is in the brass tube that juts out into the air stream at the carb inlet.

You need to prop open the throttle (I use a pocket screwdriver) so that you can see the brass tube from the engine side of the carb. You need to insert the end of the spray can's plastic straw directly over the nozzle at the end of the brass tube to reverse flush it. Fluid should exit the passage that feeds the tube.

If Fluid won't flow, you need to locate the entrance of the passage and spray into it. Often, on a badly plugged carb, you will need to spray into the brass tube from supply end and then try spraying from the nozzle end several times to clear that tube and nozzle.

You will know they're clear when you spray i the the feed end and fluid shoots out the back of the carb several feet. As in 6 to 8 feet!
If not, just keep flushing back and forth until that happens.

Watch your.eyes!

On the 20 carb, there's also a "main jet tube" that sips fuel from the float bowl. It's a vertical brass tube with a very tiny jet that can clog easily. If you can't get both of those tubes flowing properly, you might be looking at another replacement carb. Those carbs are very sensitive to contamination.

Sorry for the book like post. Just getting you info you may need.
 
Thanks JBMO
Perfect ..many thanks. I also used to visit a website that had the same "entry system" and I could never get in. If the web master works with a very small range of IP addresses so sometimes you need to power down your computer and router and then restart everything ..you SHOULD get either a direct link to the website or it might ask you to verify you are human!! It is a pain but they use it to stop "bots"

OK thanks for all the info!! I will get a new o-ring from honda after the weekend but I can do the channel clearing in the meantime as the carb it sitting on my big boat.. I'll let you know the outcome with the passages! Sadly this is an almost new carb which I fitted in March so it has sat since the end of April with the flout chamber full from early may right thru to early December!! I WAS toying with checking the main jet tube but looking at my wife's selection of needles I can see it's way thicker than the needle so I'll do what you suggest!!

Many thanks again guys!!
 
Sorry -one more question. If I prop open the throttle I see two brass tubes ..the one nearest the butterfly is vertical and runs from top to bottom and then the shorter one (sticks out around (10mm) 1/2" from the side of the venturi ) so it's almost horizontal when you hold the carb as it sits on the motor and is about 15mm from the intake side
 
Thanks for the computing tip.

I don't use my computer. I use my phone and that could be the issue Although, I think it's likely the Google Chrome browser because similar stuff has happened before with that. At the moment I just enter the forum via the main menu as a work around until I feel like trying a new browser.Funny thing is, the site keeps me signed on.

I use micro drill bits for some of those tiny jets

BUT....I DON'T recommend them for anyone but the most careful and patient people as they are carbide and MORE brittle and easier to break off than even those wire brush bristles. If you snap off a 0.002" carbide bit in a jet, you'll pretty much NEED to get another carb.

Your carb sitting and few months isn't great but, hopefully, there wasn't water loaded with minerals in there. Hardened minerals can be almost as hard as diamond and the carb spray won't touch it.

In those cases, about all that's left is t put the bowl back on and fill it with 80/20% CLR and distilled (reverse osmosis) water and let it sit a day or two and try again after it's had a chance to soften. At that point, I might opt just to put on a new carb.

Only rub there is that the carbs have gotten expensive lately....like everything else thanks to the money printers/grifters and 5 finger lifters!

However, the BF20D outboard is an AWESOME unit and worthy of the expenditure if needed. They just don't tolerate mis-managed fuel.
 
Thanks JGMO
I think with all the running back and forth, buying orings and struggling to clear passages it's probably worth just a new carb (again!!) I think the last one at the beginning of the year was around AUS$400 but then again a BF20D new motor is almost AUS$7000 here so it's not a massive expense.
Can I ask your advice on what precautionary methods are advised if I don't use the motor for say, a week or even a month??? I keep my Whaly dinghy tied up in front of my catamaran which we live on so it's not a big deal to jump into the dinghy and run the motor once a week.

Chris
 
Hi Chris,
Yes, whether you get the old one clean or get a new one, the rules for "no worries" are the same......

Use clean, fresh gasoline with no water in it and run the outboard with the fuel hose disconnected to empty the powerhead fuel lines anytime the outboard is put up for more than a month. That will USUALLY empty the carb bowl but checking that it's completely dry by opening the drain screw is a good idea....as well as a bit of a pain.
But, having the correct length, slot tipped screwdriver that fits in there and engages the screw head properly can make doing that easy and routine.
Running the outboard once a week is more than adequate.
Where folks go wrong is keeping gas too long and/or not paying attention to the quality of the fuel. Sometimes, buying fuel and not sampling it for water content is all it takes to stuff up one of these precision carburetors. Because, even a trusted supplier can have water in their gas it gets handled, stored and transported so much.
Fuel docks can often be the worst.
Using an additive like Sta-Bil can help with storage but can't "fix" contaminated fuel.

I used to hang out on a 45', home built tri in San Diego Bay with a blue nose pit bull buddy. I'm a bit nostalgic (and envious) about how you live :>)

Google the schooner INVADER to visit the ship my bride and I got married on.

Good luck and bon vent!
 
Invader is stunning but suits it's role as a training ship as it needs a huge amount of crew to manage the sails!!
My first liveaboard was also a trimaran an Arthur Piver "Lodestar" design made in just ply!! She was a 36 footer!!
Our current boat is a modified 38' sailing catamaran (also a plywood hull with a GRP skin but the mast and rigging stripped away so it's just really a motor cruiser) at the Port Bouvard Marina just South of Mandurah in Western Australia! Great way of life and financially much cheaper than even an apartment!!!
 
"The time spent on the water is not deducted from a man's life"
Jim Robbins recited that aphorism while teaching me to sail 50 years ago.

The Invader was enlisted for many purposes over time, including short stints of human trafficking and running drugs. She was freshly purchased by the Harbor Excursion company in San Diego when I first met her to enhance their San Diego Bay tour fleet. Soon after we were wed on her, she disappeared and turned up years later in Italy (I believe) neglected and abandoned.

A consortium of wealthy yachtsmen picked her out in lieu of many other old ships to restore and serve as a living museum. She was so beautiful after that it took my breath when I saw photos of her refit.

While it might take a large (13 or more) crew to race her properly, she could be motor sailed with 4 able bodied men plus one other to act as a full service bar tender while hosting passengers in the bay.
 
What would we do without memories ..yep I saw the full history on a YouTube video here

Back to the carb on my 20D I found after leaving it overnight the fancy o-ring seems to have reverted back to the correct size so for now I have tried your trick of pumping a bit of carby cleaner into the float chamber to see if it will clear any passages..if not I'll get a new carb!! I still cannot find the input side of the accelerator passage ..If I open the throttle (with a small screwdriver) and look from the air input side of the carb I see a short little brass tube on the left and up near the butterfly and brass tube that is vertical ..top to bottom. I assume the short one is the one to squirt cleaner into? However I will continue to play tomorrow and try the carb out and if all fails I'll order a new one!!!

Do you have a sail boat now???

Chris
 
Chris, using the Honda as a tender can move only short trips and the fuel system doesn’t run at a good hot operating temperature for very long. And the way the Honda sips fuel, a portable tank of fuel lasts a long time, plus the fuel likely contains ethanol which turns to water with age. Keep a bit of sea foam in your gas if a tank lasts longer than say 2 months, and take the tender for some longer fullish throttle runs once a month, say 10-15 minutes. I say these gas engines get cholesterol without proper exercise.
 
To get in on your sailing vessel stories, I live and boat near the town of Mahone Bay, Nova Scotia, I took this picture in the Bay of the Adela, a 182 ft yacht that visited Mahone here in August. It’s an old design but rebuilt in steel, it requires a crew of about 20 to race.


That’s the story of her.

1765719141413.jpeg
1765719141413.jpeg
 
Chris,
Yes, the accelerator pump tube would be coming from your left if looking into the air inlet end of the carb. But, the nozzle in the end of that tube can only be seen and/or accessed by looking into the carb throat from the end that mounts to the engine That's why the throttle has to be propped wide open so that the throttle plate moves out of the way. It is very tricky to place the end of the carb spray straw precisely over that little nozzle. But...very necessary to clear that part of the system.

To locate the Inlet hole for the tube in the main body you have to match the hole that the accelerator pump piston forces fuel from the float chamber while you have it off the carb.

Did you clean those little tunnels in the bottom of the bowl when it was off? They can look ok but still be clogged.

I hope the "soak trick" works/helps.



Yes, I still have my trailer sailors.
1. San Juan 23
2. Santana 21
3.Lido 14's....several of them since a friend left his "fleet" on my property.
I have become disabled and can't really use any of them anymore.
I am probably going to give them all away but it's really hard to let go.

NSDON....
Nice schooner! I will have to read up on her.
 
Thanks! Sounds tricky but I will have a try... I assumed that the nozzle was purely the tiny piece at the end of the tube and if I open and close the butterfly I do get some liquid (I presume carb cleaner) dripping out the end of that short tube. Yep I used lots of cleaner in those tunnels

Chris
 
Well, getting something out of that tube is a very good sign.

It likely means that it's not completely plugged and will easily clean up.

But the real test is to charge the tube with pressure from the can via the hole that the pump piston feeds. Doing that, should result in a 6' to 8' stream exiting the engine side of the carb with the throttle propped wide open. A 3 to 4ft. stream isn't good enough and would indicate more flushing is needed.
 
Thanks mate ..I'll do that next week as this week has been filled with doctor appointments and immunotherapy infusions (which I have to have for a year) and a small procedure this Friday to change a stent tube from my left kidney ..then I can decided/try the carb and if unsuccessful I'll order a new one from Honda. Whew life is tough as you get older .. medical issues take over from more pleasurable pastimes..but I'm sure you know about that!!
 
I do!!!
My mum in law used to say "getting old ain't fer sissys" and I now understand COMPLETELY.
BUT....
....BETTER than the alternative....
...I think :unsure:
 
Hi IGMO
Well I cleaned out the carb and also found some "varnish" (yellow deposit) on the auto choke needle so cleaned that all up and assembled it again and put the carb on the motor ... start3ed first touch and the auto choke was working but it died again and wouldn't restart after running for a few minutes so that's progress (a bit)
Now the idle control cable seems to have a problem on the motor side and the cable plus a small brass ferrule attached to the cable end keeps coming out of the small block which might be the stall issue??? What holds the little brass ferrule in place on the motor side? It seems to pop out quite easily... could it be something in the block it pushes into that has come off/undone??

BTW: Happy 2006 when it comes your way as we are a good 12 hours ahead of you!!!

Chris
 
Hi Chris,
Hope you had a good Christmas.
Happy New Year right back atchya!

Sorry, I'm not picking up on your ferrule description. Could you possibly post a photo of what keeps popping off?

Whatever it is though, it shouldn't be causing the stalling I don't believe.

It sounds more to me like the enrichment valve might not be getting power after the engine starts.

Remember, the SE valve is DEFAULTED RICH when the engine isn't running and is cold.

But, after start up, a special coil under the flywheel supplies voltage to the SE valve and causes the mixture to lean out for normal, full engine temperature operation. The SE valve MUST be getting voltage (12V) any time the engine is running to keep the fuel/air mixture in the correct range. IE: about 14:1 (often described as stoiciometric or "stoic" for short)

If the SE valve doesn't get power after the engine starts, the mixture stays rich and will typically cause.the engine to stall after 2 to 3 minutes of running as the engine warms up.
 
Hi JGMO
Thanks for that. I did take the carb off along with the integral SE valve so I might not have pushed the connectors in correctly ..I will check it tomorrow as it's dark here now!! Prior to cleaning the carb and SE valve needle the motor would start and then die after 5 seconds. Now it runs great for the 2 odd minutes and then dies and will not restart at all.

OK regarding the "ferrule" my remote in the centre console has two control cables ..one obviously for forward/reverse which works fine and that cable works fine! The second cable is obviously for throttle and even at rest as soon as the motor starts the brass ferrule jumps out of the little block it is supposed to sit in. I have an idea the brass ferrule belongs in the little block and it supposed to stay there and the cable clips into the ferrule ...Would you have a diagram of the area where the two control cables come in so I can explain where the ferrule is supposed to stay?? As far as I can fathom out the control cables terminate with a thread and locknut but if I operate the idle control the cable complete with the ferrule jumps out of the block so there must be something that keeps the ferrule in the block and the cable threaded part pushes into the block. I have looked locally at parts lists and diagrams but none show the area where the cables come in right next to the fuel filter!
 
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