Logo

Any method for pulling fault codes on a BF 50?

chawk_man

Silver Medal Contributor
I have two friends who have just purchased a Nimble Nomad 24 with a 2000 BF50 and I am trying to help them out.

1. Is there any way to pull fault codes on the BF50 with a shunt (i.e. paperclip) like you can with the bigger Hondas? If so, where can I find that procedure?

2. What is the procedure for draining the carbs? Do they need to be drained after every use?

Thanks.
 
The carby models don't give fault codes that I know of. Think it started with the fuel injection. Each carby has a drain and a drain screw at the bottom of the bowl. Connect a hose that runs into a container and losen off the screw to drain out the fuel. You don't need to do this after every use but it's a good idea to do it if you won't be using the motor for a while, like when winterising.
 
OK. Thanks. This engine was water tested about a month ago, but will now be in storage until the spring, so I'll get my friends to drain the carbs, or will do it for them.

Another question if you don't mind - In your opinion are the carbs on this engine as "touchy" (i.e. easily clogged and sensitive to any foreign particles) as they are on the smaller Honda's, or are they more robust?. The last carbed outboard I ever worked on was an old Johnson 200 SeaPro, and those carbs were simple and very robust.
 
They are pretty touchy in my opinion. Have a tendency to clog up with any bad fuel, cleaning the carbs fixes half the problems these motors have. I think they are a great motor all round and will last forever if cared for well.

A few simple checks before /after each trip should help to catch anything before it turns into a disaster and save you an expensive repair.

check your engine oil for level and colour each trip.
check your leg oil for level and colour each trip.
always flush out the motor with fresh water after use in salt water.
always do a full and proper service each year.
pull off the prop and remove any fishing line around the prop shaft and check the seal, while there take a good look at the bearing retainer nut (gear case end nut in honda speak) and check for rust/corrosion as this can blow out your casing. Have it replaced by someone with the right tool, don't try and tap it around with a screw driver!

dont run your engine if any of these things don't check out, get them rectified first and you should avoid doing real damage. Plenty of other little checks I like to do but those should save you from most expensive repairs.
 
Skronkman,

Thanks for the insight and advice. I do all of those things and pull all my own maintenance on my 2007 fuel-injected BF225. But my friends are novices - they are two ladies who have gotten up in years and had to give up their 28 ft. sail boat. So they bought this mini-trawler to putz around in. I'll be teaching them proper maintenance. But I was a bit concerned about the carbs, since it has been quite a while since I've had to deal with those on an outboard. SOS - clean gas, and drain them whenever it's put up. Rebuild when necessary.
 
Chawk,

Ditto on everything said so far. That old Johnson Sea Pro guzzled the fuel while the Honda will sip it. Thus, the small passages.

Make sure your friends use a good fuel treatment with every fill up. Pri-G, Stabil-Marine, etc....you know the drill....

I am not recommending using Sea Foam for ongoing use for these motors. It does have alcohol in it and I am suspecting that it is causing some swelling of a plastic piece in the float valves, causing the float level to be incorrect.

Mike
 
Interesting the comments on the carbs. We have put several thousand hours (in total) on 6 BF50's and I don't think we have touched a carb yet. Maybe one idle screw adjustment if anything. Only real problems in all that time has been a weird charging issue that kept burning up the coils. Eventually after a few repeat failures we just replaced everything (flywheel, coils, regulator and CDI unit). That sorted it. Overall these seem to be a pretty tough engine.
 
Perhaps putting all those hours on was what kept the carbs clean. Leaving fuel in the carbs and not running the motor seems to be a major offender. If you're running every day/week you are flushing them through.
 
I would say skronkman hit it on the head. The best thing in the world for no carb trouble is to use clean fresh fuel and then RUN 'EM! It's definitely watered fuel and sitting that causes all the trouble.

Thanks for the heads up on Sea Foam Mike! I think you make a good point.
 
Mike - thanks. Good information.

I don't think the presence of alcohol would prevent the product's use as an engine decarbonizing agent where it is being immediately burned as part of the de-carbonizing process. But as a standard fuel treatment, additional alcohol is clearly a bad idea.
 
Weeeeeeelll. I don't know. It just seems the waters are a bit muddier for me on this than a simple yes/no.

First off, if THAT site is trying to sell "alcohol detectors", I think, at least for people that read, they sorta missed the boat. If their "detector" was so good then why was no result given for Ethanol Shield? And, for FORMULA X2 it says "likely ethanol"....whaaa? I mean jeesh! they were VERY specific with many of the other brands! So, I'm left asking....Does it DETECT or doesn't it?

Anyway, on to the ALCOHOLS.
I say alcohols (plural) because there are a few. Ethyl, Methyl, Propyl (propanol) and Butyl (butanol).

Now, I am NOT the PROFESSOR here as chawk_man says occasionally...sometimes. :~)

But, I did do some reading in an effort to understand and possibly defend my old friend SEA FOAM. A product I have used SUCCESSFULLY for many years and that others have used and recommended for DECADES.

Like I say, I don't know all that much but what I discern, from some of the documentation on alcohols, is that there are CRITICAL differences in the make up of alcohol that CAN make one more suitable and less harmful to engines than another.

I think we, at least most interested parties, can AGREE that the major drawbacks to having alcohol....any alcohol.....in our fuel tanks, comes down to two things. Corrosiveness to certain material and the ability for alcohol to attract moisture from the atmosphere.

The last, called HYGROSCOPICITY, can be bad if the fuel is left setting for A GIVEN length of time. Alcohol will attract or hygroscope water into the fuel tank out of the atmosphere and, indeed, out of the fuel that is already in there and mix with it (miscibility).
DEFINITELY BAD,,,,but ONLY if we let it sit for an INORDINATE amount of time.

This can be alleviated somewhat by using different compounds of alcohol. There are four separate ISOMETRIC compounds of Butanol, for instance, and the n-Butanol isomer compound is MUCH less miscible with water than the others. I found nothing about isomers in Propanol (the form of alcohol used in Sea-Foam) yet... but that doesn't mean that there isn't something similar associated with it. Just that my "research" is incomplete at this point.

Lets move on the the corrosive "problem". Ironically, the harm, from alcohol, to certain manufactured materials in and on our engines, comes from the SOLVENT properties associated with alcohol. But that solvent is EXACTLY why we are putting it in the tank in the first place! We WANT the solvent!....We NEED the solvent!
Primarily to soften and cause the breakup of harmful deposits occurring on valves and pistons. HECK, without the solvents, we might AS WELL be putting water in there! And, WATER WORKS! I've used it for years to "decarbonize" engines. I've said THAT right here on this forum several times. But....

.....I digress.

Yes, the solvents in alcohol can be bad but the engine manufacturers have been upgrading materials for years because of the advent of biogas as a motorfuel and the IMMEDIATE rot of fuel line and vacuum hose has been pretty much eliminated as a result. That doesn't mean you won't pay a penalty for using ethanol sometime down the road (lake?) but the discussion here is the use of SEA FOAM.

In addition, you may notice that the chart says SEA FOAM utilizes PROPANOL (isopropyl alcohol) as opposed to Ethyl or Methyl. Propanol is a derivative of FOSSIL Fuel. They distill it from the same stuff gasoline and natural gas comes from. Does that make it MORE suitable for putting in an engine than the others? I don't know. That is a good question and one I may pursue. When I have time.

Lately I have been a vocal advocate of LUCAS OIL PRODUCTS simply because I am aware of the SCIENCE that goes in to their manufacture and how EFFECTIVE they have been for me. So, I don't use Sea Foam as much as I did before. But, would I STOP because I suddenly realize it contains alcohol? Probably not.

When I used SEA FOAM regularly it was only to "dose" a fuel system that had been showing problems. It was typically for one tank of fuel only and that was burned immediately and not allowed to sit. I never used it to routinely put in at each fuel fill. And, I don't use LUCAS like that either. I use it to DOSE a full tank of gas every third fill up on my GDI car. I do use their synthetic oil modifier along with the PENNZOIL PLATINUM PLUS oil at EVERY oil change. I do it on the GDI engine ONLY in an attempt to keep the carbonizing of the intake valve stems from taking hold. So, if anyone reading this (that has been able to stay awake) has any comments on THAT practice, I would be glad to hear them.
 
Professor Jimmy - what can I say? You've obviously looked into this in far more detail than any of us more pedestrian folks. It seems like your bottom line is that Sea Foam and similar alcohol-based solvents/decarbonizers are ok for decarbonizing, but not necessarily good for continual use. Your second bottom line is that alcohol laced fuel, let sit for a long time will always absorb water from the air. The question is how long is that before the fuel is degraded to the point where it causes problems?

I would like to hear more from Mike of his suspicion that Sea Foam may be causing some swelling of a plastic pieces in the float valves, causing the float level to be incorrect.
 
Well chawk_man, I had to leave it to you to sum up and you did a great job!

As to the question of how long.....?
I will say NOT LONG AT ALL! Any fuel with alcohol in it, in a VENTED fuel tank, will start to "break down" almost immediately and start becoming harmful to the fuel system components in around 30 days after being pumped from a typical gas station underground tank. The reason is that the fuel blend has, most likely, been sitting in another tank at the refinery for a time and then...when it is dumped in the gas station tank...there is ALWAYS water at the bottom of THAT tank and the new fuel will become contaminated almost instantly. So, it just sort of rapidly "sours" for lack of a better term.

I agreed immediately with MIKE about the distortion of the fuel floats. However, I will say that that too only occurs after a period of setting immersed in the "soured" fuel. Witness the fact that I have dosed many a Honda carburetor with SEA FOAM as well as that we, out here on the LEFT COAST run 10% alcohol laced fuel all day, every day...with NO or, at least, undetectable harm....unless the equipment is allowed to sit for a time with fuel left in it.

Additionally, I have reused Honda floats many, many times after carb rebuilds with no problems and they have been exposed to alcohol, to one degree or another, from the moment of break in initialization.

That's my Cali experience. Mike lives near the "corn belt" and probably sees a much higher degree of ethanol usage. Including ADDED ethanol or methanol dumped into gas station blends to "extend the gallonage" and increase profits. That's why you DO have to be careful where you buy your fuel.

But, like you, I ALWAYS like to hear what Mike has to say....he's the BEST!
 
As a non-expert who has learned a ton from the bright minds on this forum, I would say yes the Honda 50 carbs can be touchy if you let them sit with fuel in them for a long time.

Having taken a carb apart, the jets really are tiny. Now I drain my carbs if they will be sitting for more than 2 weeks. Maybe overkill, but better safe than sorry.

I also highly recommend a carb sync gauge. My carbs were not in sync (I had rough idle) and syncing them was both easy and effective in smoothing out my idle.
 
Notice, that I said, "I suspect" that Sea Foam may be adding to the alcohol issue. I do not have a big enough sample to say for sure. Just a handful of customers that had the small plastic piece that goes inside the end of the float valve, swollen while sitting with fuel in the carbs. All had an alcohol content of at least 10% and most of them used Sea Foam. So, except for decarbonization and shock treatment of fuel systems, I recommend something other than Sea Foam to our customers, just to keep them out of potential trouble.

Like I said, no scientific proof, just my gut telling me to stay away....like my gut tells me not to walk down a dark alley....

It is not a hard sell....when you compare the cost of Seafoam/gallon of gas with PRI-G or Stabil Marine.....

Seafoam is approx $10 for 16oz. (I am sure much cheaper at Walmart) Instructions say for standard use 1oz/gallon....that means $10 per 16 gallons of fuel = 62.5 cents/gallon.

We sell Pri-g for $21.99 for 16oz. Instructions say for standard use 1oz/16 gallons 16 oz treats 256 gallons. So $21.99/256 gallons = 3.9 cents/gallon.

Stabil Marine is pretty much the same.

As I said, it makes the decision easy for standard ongoing use.

Mike
 
Back
Top