Logo
FULL SITE MENU

2008 Honda 225 Thrust washer problem

T

Triton23

New member
I just wanted to see if anybody has experienced the same problem I'm having with my Honda 225. I have come to the conclusion that my thrust washers are bad in my motor which has 340 hrs on it. I also confirmed this with Honda Corp in GA.
So yesterday I made an appt. with my local outboard repair shop to have this fixed. He quoted me a price of $6000- 6500. Thats a lot of money for a repair but thats what it is. So I asked him that once the repairs are made, does this solve the problem for good? He stated that he has seen motors come back for the same thing after the repair has been performed. He actually had a F&G boat in there for the second time for this.

The fear in the back of my mind is that I will be having this repair every 2 years.

Have they changed the material they use for these?

Is there a class action law suit out there?

I know Honda is aware if this issue and seems to happen with low hours on the motors.

I realize that I am out of warranty but one would think that they have some obligation to make their poor design right with customers. These motors are not disposable right?

TYIA
 
They should include a spring and thrust cup in the box with the short motor, this is placed behind the drive flange during assembly which presses on the drive shaft after the gear case has been installed which in turn puts upward pressure on the crank thus reducing pressure on the thrust washers. In my experience I have not had one of these fail a second time, so should be good after the repair. I would also run a slightly higher viscosity oil in future.
 
To reinforce what Ian has said. I use a very good Honda shop here in eastern Virginia. Several years ago I had a long discussion with the owner about this thrust washer problem (which I have not experienced so far on my engine.) He told me that there have been significant problems on the 200/225 with the thrust washer failing, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE ENGINES HAVE BEEN LAID UP FOR LONG PERIODS, as happens here, because some folks pull their boats in September and don't relaunch until May. He noted that the commercial fishermen don't have this problem because they're operating at least 10 months a year.

He had two recommendations - switch over to the Mercury Marine SAE 25W-40 oil and periodically run your engine during any lay up period over six weeks. He further conveyed that once their shop did the switch over, the number of thrust washer problems they had on the engines they maintain dropped off dramatically. He was not sure whether switching over to the 25W-40 would cause any warranty issues with Honda, but said it was their practice to make the switch as soon as the warranty had expired.

Since that conversation, I've had two other marine mechanics make exactly the same recommendation.

Ian - question for you - do you know the max allowable play in the thrust washer? I've heard numerous values, but cannot find definitive information. My measured play the last time I checked was 0.012 inches.
 
And just for the record Bill, I actually use the Merc 25W40 in my own 225 too.I am not a big fan of 10W30, it is very thin and separates very easily leaving bare spots,I have noticed this when checking oil on the dipstick.As far as Honda warranty goes , I have never asked the question
 
Ian - roger that. Thanks for the confirmation on end play. Guess I'm still well within specs.

I don't want to hijack this thread from Triton23, but I think it's important to go down this path for other readers.

I noticed that the Merc 25W-40 and the Yamalube 20W-40 have the NMMA "FC-W" designation for anti-wear formulation specifically for outboards. This appears to be an important distinction designed to really assist in improving the longevity of marine engines. My understanding is that oils with this designation also do not thin out as much as a standard auto motor oil. Are you in agreement with that analysis?

Also, do you have an opinion about adding anti-wear additives like zinc dithiophosphate (ZDP) zinc dialkyl dithio phosphate (ZDDP) to outboard engine oil?
 
Bill, I have never added additives to modern engine oils, I am sure it wouldn't harm though. I just never saw the harm in using 25W40 because if you look at oil recommendations for most modern petrol engines you will find 25W40 listed for the greatest range of climatic conditions. I would possibly used thinner oil if running in close to icy waters otherwise I would go for the higher viscosity. A couple of years ago I followed a post by a commercial operator your end of the world who went through 5 short motors on a BF250, all under warranty and apparently Honda USA put it down to the number of starts ( I believe it was something like 1000+ per engine) and they were of the opinion the thrust washer did not have sufficient oil film to prevent metal to metal on each start up, the thread ended without any resolution. That was where I got the idea that in my opinion Honda were recommending to light a viscosity with the aim of minimizing oil drag for better fuel consumption, don't know, that was just my analysis of the whole scenario. All I know is I have used the heavier oil grade once engines are out of warranty and I have only ever had one thrust washer issue through my workshop and that was more because of water getting into the oil through a corroded top mount cover plate. It is an interesting discussion none the less. I also believe it would be very difficult for Honda to reject a warranty claim if engine failure did occur whilst using the heavier grade oil simply because the oil companies state that is suitable for all petrol engines.
 
Roger that. Thanks for the detail.

If I ever buy another new outboard, I will definitely start off with the 25W-40 FC-W.

Triton23 - any word on your engine?
 
Hi CHawk,
well I finally had the mechanic from my local "Authorized " Honda repair facility. The guy was very nice and informative. I explained the whole problem and he thinks that I may have a " hot spot" in my cooling system. Maybe caused by sand or something like that. He suggested that I flush all of the water ports with water. I told him my HDS temp sensors were 140 on 2&3 and 190 on #1 (Block) while running about 38 mph. And also get some clear hose and run that to see if I have air bubbles. To address the oil dot on my gauge disappearing, he suggested hooking up an oil gauge and running it on the water to get the alarm to trigger. When it alarms, take note of an oil pressure drop if appears. I can't get in until 7/5 so he told me to call him with my findings and he will help over the phone from there. I had to buy that oil plug adapter and should be here Thursday. I also bought a snake camera that I plan on trying to look in the cooling system too.

On another note, I have been also looking at the different oils to run in my motor once fixed. I found that Hot Shot Secret has come out with a race oil that has the Zinc & Phos. that have been removed from most motor oils. I run the FR3 in my outboard and wife's Z and the Diesel extreme in my Duramax. Seems to make the motors run smoother.

Anything else I may want to check? I will post results prob after next weekend. Don't want to go out to the lake to test with a thousand yahoos out there.lol
 
Just for the record, your temps are spot on, most 225s run the block temp( That's the higher value) at around 212 and your exhaust temps are normal too. So check you oil pressure,a 225 at running temp should be constant at around 60psi at 1800 rpm
 
Question - my Honda 250 (2013 year) has close to 1000 hours on it. I have been using Honda oil as per their recommendations the entire time. Reading this thread has me considering using the 25W40 from this point on. Should I use the normal oil or the synthetic blend version?
 
Unless you are operating in a very cold climate, Many knowledgeable folks (including me) recommend Merc 25W-40 FC-W, or a very similar oil. The "FC-W" rating is important. The FC-W spec indicates a higher minimum viscosity level, meaning that FC-W oil will not thin out as much as automotive oil of the same viscosity under the same heat and rpm conditions. That's going to help that thrust bearing stay in better shape and reduce wear - the jest of the discussion on this thread.

Whether or not you go with the synthetic blend or not is up to you. BUT you should still change the oil (and oil filter) religiously every 100 hours. So the more expensive synthetic blend is probably a waste of money, IMO. Your call.
 
Thank you. I operate in Central west Florida, so needless to say NEVER in cold climates. I do change oil and filter religiously every 100 hours. Is the Quicksilver oil the same as the Mercury?
 
I think that the Quicksilver oil is just another brand under the Mercury umbrella. It's my understanding that the Mercury oil is typically sold by marine products dealers and the Quicksilver is sold through retail outlets like Walmart. I cannot definitively tell you whether or not they are exactly the same oil, but I suspect so.
 
Back
Top