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Honda 200 HP EFI outboard issues

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atcpilot

New member
I have a Honda 200 HP EFI 6 cyl engine on my 19 foot, 1992 Key West DC. I have heard it run twice. Once when I bought it (a month or so ago) and again today. It ran for about 20 seconds and then dies as though it ran out of fuel. Then it will not start again. It cranks very well. The fuel is good, it gets spark (because it ran) but won't stay running. The primer bulb is solid and does not leak out. I cleaned both the VST (water separator) and the fuel filter. Both fill with fuel when I squeeze the primer bulb. I have the emergency cut-off installed. (but it actually started with it off) Spark plugs are good. The only identity tag I can find on the motor is BEAEJ-1001990. This does NOT match anything I can find online anywhere. If it was the fuel pump on the motor I wouldn't expect it to start at all. I am not a mechanic, but have done my fair share of engine work over the decades. This has me stumped. Can anyone shed any light on my issue? I am in Fort Myers Florida about 4 miles from FMB.

Thank you.
Steven
 
Hi Steven,

I see. no answers as yet so I wanted to say welcome to the forum.

I've never worked on a V6 Honda so just kicking around a couple of thoughts.

I'm no expert but, to my knowledge, the frame numbers on Hondas usually start with only four letters.
I couldn't find any reference either for a 200hp with a five letter frame number. But you probably know all that already. I don't have info for later models.

The BAEJ-1001990 is a 2002 on boats.net Link attached. But probably ground you've already covered aa well.


One explanation might be a misprint on the label but just a guess.

Can you hear the high pressure pump run for 2 seconds at key on?
A failing pump might be able to "precharge" the fuel rail at key on for engine start but then not be able to supply enough volume to keep the engine running. You might want to consider checking fuel pressure.

I'll shut up now and, hopefully, the V6 guys will answer. They're probably working the summer "rush" or getting in a fishing trip right now.

Good luck.
 
jgmo said:
Hi Steven,

I see. no answers as yet so I wanted to say welcome to the forum.

I've never worked on a V6 Honda so just kicking around a couple of thoughts.

I'm no expert but, to my knowledge, the frame numbers on Hondas usually start with only four letters.
I couldn't find any reference either for a 200hp with a five letter frame number. But you probably know all that already. I don't have info for later models.

The BAEJ-1001990 is a 2002 on boats.net Link attached. But probably ground you've already covered aa well.


One explanation might be a misprint on the label but just a guess.

Can you hear the high pressure pump run for 2 seconds at key on?
A failing pump might be able to "precharge" the fuel rail at key on for engine start but then not be able to supply enough volume to keep the engine running. You might want to consider checking fuel pressure.

I'll shut up now and, hopefully, the V6 guys will answer. They're probably working the summer "rush" or getting in a fishing trip right now.

Good luck.
Click to expand...
Hey Thanks JG.
All good info. I wondered about the misprint too on the frame label. I need someone with me so I can stand by the engine when the key is turned. I will check that out. I am thinking the same way you are. I would have purchased a pump just to rule it out but as you saw I have been having trouble identifying the engine. I definitely appreciate you taking time to put your two cents in, I will let you know what happens.
Steven
 
atcpilot said:
Hey Thanks JG.
All good info. I wondered about the misprint too on the frame label. I need someone with me so I can stand by the engine when the key is turned. I will check that out. I am thinking the same way you are. I would have purchased a pump just to rule it out but as you saw I have been having trouble identifying the engine. I definitely appreciate you taking time to put your two cents in, I will let you know what happens.
Steven
Click to expand...
I was able to confirm that the pump does whirr for a few seconds when turning the key. Very noticeable even by myself
 
That's really good news because it indicates that the VERY expensive (and maybe no longer available) ECU and the main relay are BOTH working.
It doesn't solve your problem but I see it as positive.
I'll look in the shop manual i have for BF225A for any ideas about what to look for and find the specifications for fuel pressure if you want them but hopefully you'll hear from someone more knowledgeable on these big Honda outboards.

If you wanted to assume, for now, that you DO have a 2002 model you could order new fuel filters. If they fit, then that might be the least expensive way to verify other parts you may need will fit.

It sounds like this boat and outboard has done alot of sitting. If so, any fuel on board is suspect and starting with fresh, clean fuel is indicated. If you're tank is a portable one, it's not too difficult to deal with but not as easy if the tank is "in hull".

One more thing about ANY outboard fuel tank is the vent valve. Starting up and running ok briefly then shutting off is a classic symptom of a closed or plugged tank vent. Something you could take a look at.

Running a short time with the fuel cap loose or removed and the condition improves is easy but it can slosh gas out and set your boat on fire! If you decide to try that use extreme caution. I wouldn't attempt it in a busy waterway or on lumpy water, even at the dock.
 
jgmo said:
That's really good news because it indicates that the VERY expensive (and maybe no longer available) ECU and the main relay are BOTH working.
It doesn't solve your problem but I see it as positive.
I'll look in the shop manual i have for BF225A for any ideas about what to look for and find the specifications for fuel pressure if you want them but hopefully you'll hear from someone more knowledgeable on these big Honda outboards.

If you wanted to assume, for now, that you DO have a 2002 model you could order new fuel filters. If they fit, then that might be the least expensive way to verify other parts you may need will fit.

It sounds like this boat and outboard has done alot of sitting. If so, any fuel on board is suspect and starting with fresh, clean fuel is indicated. If you're tank is a portable one, it's not too difficult to deal with but not as easy if the tank is "in hull".

One more thing about ANY outboard fuel tank is the vent valve. Starting up and running ok briefly then shutting off is a classic symptom of a closed or plugged tank vent. Something you could take a look at.

Running a short time with the fuel cap loose or removed and the condition improves is easy but it can slosh gas out and set your boat on fire! If you decide to try that use extreme caution. I wouldn't attempt it in a busy waterway or on lumpy water, even at the dock.
Click to expand...
Hi JG,
That is extraordinarily helpful. I did open the fuel cap to see if it seemed pressurized and it did not. I will try to start it with the cap off but only to test that theory. If that works, then I will attempt to locate the ACTUAL vent valve to clear it.
I had also removed the fuel filter (again, only to make sure it wasn't clogged) and tried starting it without it in place. I am going to assume it IS the 2002 version of the 200HP engine. When I visited the link you provided earlier, everything in the parts diagrams appear to be lining up perfectly.
I can't thank you enough for your knowledge and help.
We'll get her going!
Steven
 
These problems can be aggravating and discouraging as things you try don't resolve the issue. But you seem to have the sort of attitude needed to work through the issue. Bravo!

A stuck closed or plugged vent doesn't cause pressure to build but rather a vacuum that the relatively weak low pressure pump has difficulty overcoming to get fuel to flow into the VST tank to provide enough liquid for the high pressure pump to pick up and then force out to the injectors.

The high pressure fuel needs to be 41 to 48 psi according to the shop manual. Do you have the manual?
If not, member chawk_man provided me (and others here) with a pdf copy that I've not had success sending before. But I recently got "schooled" on how to do it via email so I'm willing to try again if you need a copy of the link. I hope it works.

In the manual's troubleshootung section under Engine Starts and Runs Briefly Then Stops the "Steps Tree" indicates to check for sources of unmetered air coming in due to loose bolts for the Idle Air bypass valve, Throttle Body and Intake Manifold along with split or cracked vacuum lines or fittings. It also mentions the vacuum tank but I don't know if the 200 has one of those.

It lists valves out of adjustment too and, on a 2002 model, the valve clearances should definitely be checked regardless. I can't count how many outboards I've worked on that had hundreds of hours on them that I believe the valves were never checked or adjusted. They seem to simply get ignored.
 
Are you using a portable fuel tank? If not, try one- to ensure clean fuel and no issues with fuel supply or venting. Use a large dose of something like sea foam in the fuel. In boat tanks can be a source of many problems, temporary use of a portable tank eliminates that as a source of your problems. If this boat has been sitting unused, I’d lean toward a fuel flow issue, our fuel doesn’t stay fresh for long, especially if it has ethanol and or came from a marina.

Did your spark plugs look clean or dirty?
 
I can chip in here. The serial number you have found is the engine serial number, a dealer in your country can use it to cross reference to find your frame number which is the one you need to find the year. The older V6 motors had issues with the main relay and there was a recall to replace it. Your symptoms are in line with this. There are two circuits for the fuel pump, the prime at key on and run. It sounds like your pump is only priming the fuel system. To confirm this, use the workshop manual to test or just replace the main relay
 
NSDON said:
Are you using a portable fuel tank? If not, try one- to ensure clean fuel and no issues with fuel supply or venting. Use a large dose of something like sea foam in the fuel. In boat tanks can be a source of many problems, temporary use of a portable tank eliminates that as a source of your problems. If this boat has been sitting unused, I’d lean toward a fuel flow issue, our fuel doesn’t stay fresh for long, especially if it has ethanol and or came from a marina.

Did your spark plugs look clean or dirty?
Click to expand...
Hello NSDON,

I will try the portable tank tomorrow. Thanks for that tip. Q: If I treat the gas in the built-in tank with sea foam, can that bring it back to life? I put 5 gallons of fresh gas in it a few days ago. Depending on my results from the first test, I will go on to your other suggestions. Thank you very much for your insightful response.

Steven
 
Old gas- depends on how old it is. How much do you think you have in the tank?

My previous Whaler had a US 63 gallon aluminum tank that started to leak from rust. I disconnected the fuel hose at the outboard and using a longer hose, siphoned all I could get out into portable fuel cans. Pumping the bulb starts the siphon into a gas can sitting below the boat on my trailer. I put a tap inline on the fuel hose so I could easily start and stop the flow.

The fuel had water in it from the leak but was otherwise good fuel. I managed to reuse most of the fuel as the water in it was very separated when viewed in a clear container.

I helped my neighbour in July, his Honda 90 outboard was running like crap, it was bad fuel, likely old. We replaced it with clean fuel, the old fuel with sea foam in it wouldn’t work in his lawn mower.

Lang’s advice above is very solid, he knows these 225’s.
 
I have a 5 gallon can of fresh HIGH Octane fuel. I emptied the water separator and the fuel filter bowls and the lines leading to them from the priming bulb. The old fuel had almost no fuel smell. Do I need to empty the old fuel further toward the engine block or will that do? I have the lower cowling off and can get to almost anything I need. I have a 5 foot hose to attach to my priming bulb and drop into my portable tank. I am ready to give it a shot.
 

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iang6766 said:
I can chip in here. The serial number you have found is the engine serial number, a dealer in your country can use it to cross reference to find your frame number which is the one you need to find the year. The older V6 motors had issues with the main relay and there was a recall to replace it. Your symptoms are in line with this. There are two circuits for the fuel pump, the prime at key on and run. It sounds like your pump is only priming the fuel system. To confirm this, use the workshop manual to test or just replace the main relay
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input. I am going to try the portable fuel tank and if that doesn't do it, I will look into replacing the main relay. Or at least ruling it out.
 
That filter in your last picture looks dirty? Replace all filters, then see if it will run on your fresh fuel.

Be very careful with having an open gas can, as opposed to a portable marine fuel tank with closed connections. Got anyone who would lend you a portable marine tank?
 
NSDON said:
That filter in your last picture looks dirty? Replace all filters, then see if it will run on your fresh fuel.

Be very careful with having an open gas can, as opposed to a portable marine fuel tank with closed connections. Got anyone who would lend you a portable marine tank?
Click to expand...
I ordered the new filter it will be here tomorrow so test is postponed until then. I will see if someone near me has a fuel tank I can borrow. I am not planning on running off the gas can. Just want to hear it start and run to determine that it runs with good fuel. 2 minutes max with my water muffs on. It ran and spit out water perfectly last week. But, I am guessing that it had good fuel in the lines from the test when I bought it. Once that was used up, it died.
 
atcpilot said:
I have a 5 gallon can of fresh HIGH Octane fuel. I emptied the water separator and the fuel filter bowls and the lines leading to them from the priming bulb. The old fuel had almost no fuel smell. Do I need to empty the old fuel further toward the engine block or will that do? I have the lower cowling off and can get to almost anything I need. I have a 5 foot hose to attach to my priming bulb and drop into my portable tank. I am ready to give it a shot.
Click to expand...
There should/could be a drain screw on the bottom of your Vapour Separator Assembly, drain that also. I’m ASSUMING there is a drain
 
I could not find any drain plug in person or in the schematics for the VST. I am having a company come out tomorrow to drain and clean the 60 gal tank on my boat. $325 + $2 per gallon that is pumped out. Hopefully it's not too full. Still waiting on the new fuel filter and I am going to buy an inline filter to make it easier to catch before becoming a bigger problem
 
NSDON said:
Get the inline fuel water separator with the clear bottom, you can see dirt, water, and old cloudy fuel.
Click to expand...
I got a new Raycor filter installed today along with having 30 gallons of water and bad fuel pumped out of the tank. It was also cleaned. ($350) I have a clean tank and good fuel lines and filters all the way to the engine. (plus I have a new sending unit coming tomorrow to install) However, I still want to run it off the portable tank before I hook everything back up to the built in tank. I've got good pressure on the primer bulb and it filled both the water separator and fuel filter on the engine. (brand new filter) I cranked the engine a bunch and it would not fire. I think the plugs may be fouled due to attempting to start with the old fuel. Anyway, I can't tell you all how much I appreciate the advice. I am closer than ever.
 
That tank was a mess! Good idea to run it on a portable, I’d run it a whole tank on the water under load once you get it running. Load the fuel with lots of sea foam.

Good chance you do need new plugs and good luck.
 
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