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TOO Much Smoke

"My guess is that the easiest

"My guess is that the easiest solution might perhaps to be to use a 4-stroke kicker for trolling, and leave your 200 as is. You will probably save both in fuel and oil what the kicker may cost in a short time.
The V6 were never intended as trolling motors!"
 
"The Amsoil product is called

"The Amsoil product is called Saber 100 Outboard oil. It's a wonderful thing and I run it at 100:1 on my rebuilt engine. At idle I can hardly detect any smoke and my plugs continue to remain clean. I also run my newly rebuilt motor at wot on it without any worry. I've been using a similar Amsoil product at 100:1 in all of my pre-mix 2-stroke engines for years and the thing I notice the most on all of my engines other than the obvious low-smoke is the high compression because the rings stay so clean. Remember this - the oil was designed to run at the 100:1 ratio. Another option is to run a 50:1 oil at 100:1 only for trolling but I don't recommend it because if you forget to switch back before powering up you could run into issues after a short period of time. By the way, my understanding is the Amsoil Saber 100 was validated all the way to 200:1 during testing...still trying to validate that bit of information though."
 
"WOW... that sounds really goo

"WOW... that sounds really good, but just the thought of running 100:1 it's a bit scary... the only thing I don’t like is the fact that the bulletin does not mention outboards specifically, definitelly will give it a shot as soon as I find a Amsoil dealer...

"
 
"Nick, you must have missed th

"Nick, you must have missed the part where it says that it meets TC-W3 standards. That meens it it is perfectly good for outboards!!!"
 
OH and I forgot to put a mix o

OH and I forgot to put a mix oil jug in my boat fuel tank the other day and added straight gas into my boat tank. I figure that after diluting the fuel that was already in my tank I was running on 80:1 mix!!! Ran 20 litres through my motor!!! Still works just fine and my compression did not change!!! Did not even realize I did that till the next day.
 
"The Amsoil Saber Outboard is

"The Amsoil Saber Outboard is specifically intended for all outboard motors requiring a pre-mix. And by the way you really want an oil that EXCEEDS the TCW3 specification. As an engineer I consider this specification to be a very weak (at best) specification and I'll explain why. The spec allows for a certain amount of carbon buildup, and scuffing during the testing/validation of the oil that is being used. I don't want any carbon buildup anywhere!!! I just finished rebuilding a 79' Evinrude 115 motor that had locked up rings plus a ridiculous amount of carbon buildup in the exhaust area and no doubt this motor was using a TCW3 oil but most likely an oil that just met the specification...an oil that might work ok in some applications but not so good when you push the performance envelope. THAT is why I and many others harp on the concept of using a high quality oil that blows away the specification and there are others besides AMSOIL. It is so worth it to get a high quality oil and stick with it over time. As I mentioned earlier I've been using Amsoil's 100:1 for about 7 years and continue to be amazed with how the overall performance is with all of my 2-stroke engines. That is why it was a no-brainer for me to use it on my newly purchased (this past spring)79' Evinrude."
 
"Thanx Ron, great stuff. This

"Thanx Ron, great stuff. This has been an enlightening discussion, maybe close to a record......38 posts. Have we heard from Joe yet? He is one hell of a sharp mechanic, are you following this one Joe?"
 
I think by changing to the syn

I think by changing to the synthetic oil so you can run at 100:1 to reduce smoke is masking the problem with this engine. At 1600rpm the motor shouldnt smoke that much.
 
"Sorry for the delay in gettin

"Sorry for the delay in getting this to you.

The HS jet is #65D, and the intermediate jet is #27.
This is from an E200STLED, which is a 1996 200 hp, and remember my motor is "finger ported", so the induction may be different from yours.

You are running rich tho, for some reason, and I think you may want to look at your float levels again..."
 
"Jamie, is not like if you can

"Jamie, is not like if you can see a cloud of smoke at 1600 RPMs, just when the motor first starts there is a cloud... but definitely a trail can be observed at 1600 RPMs and the smell sucks, it does not smell like gas but smells like oil...

Thanks Dough, what "finger ported" means??? man the floats were good, when I rebuilted the carbs, I put then up side down and were in worst case a hair (much less than a 16th of an inch) from level on the carb housing..."
 
"Finger porting refers to the

"Finger porting refers to the two "finger shaped" ports that are cut into the cyl right next to the normal rectangular intake port, one on each side.
The pistons also have two holes machined into the side skirts that match up to the finger ports.
It is a significant difference in the fuel induction, and may be the reason the HS jet size are 65s on my 1996, where yours are 62s. This is pure speculation...I just do not know for sure.

Finger porting the 200,225 V6 looper models began in 1993, so the presence or absence of the finger ports will help you with the year range of your powerhead.
Also, the lower end of the crank changed in 1993, with the addition of a SS sleeve that holds the driveshaft o-ring captive. The o-ring does not remain on the driveshaft when you remove the LU; it stays up in the end of the crank in that sleeve.
Another change for 1993, the air silencer. New style had two plastic headed thumb screws holding the silencer on, pre-1993 has bolts all around the perimeter holding it all together.

These changes are 1993 up."
 
"Nicknack...
Facts: Engine i

"Nicknack...
Facts: Engine is smoking way too much.
You have black, wet plugs.
I remember that you had a very hard time getting it to idle at 700.
This points to excessive rich mixture.

Where can the extra gas be coming from? Leaking needle in a carb, high floats, and primer solenoid...maybe.
So, I had a wild thought...
Primer solenoid leaking, or stuck open. That would dump extra fuel into the back of all six manifolds and really richen it up. So, I would rule out the leaking primer solenoid by doing this:

Take a pair of vise grips, and lightly clamp off the little line that supplies fuel to the primer solenoid. Clamp it off after you get it started, and warmed up. See if the performance radically changes.
Also, double check the hook up of those fuel lines to the primer solenoid. Single line input goes low, the two lines output goes high on the top of that valve.

Free test."
 
"Dough I was thinking of that,

"Dough I was thinking of that, but never got around to check the solenoid, it does operate but it is a possibility that it could be partially stuck open, I'll try that this weekend…"
 
"Guys, I was busy this weekend

"Guys, I was busy this weekend, but was able to take a thermostat off and the pictures below shows what I got... what I don’t understand is how to test this thermostat (no spring or moving parts that opens or closes with change of temperature... any ideas??? I want to rule out the running too cool at low RPMs due to bad thermostats theory…

Dough, this got me closer to the year model of this thing, the 1992 model has this thermostat set up so I guess at best I got a 1992...

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/fch2cxr/thermostat3.jpg"

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/fch2cxr/thermostat1.jpg"

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/fch2cxr/thrmostat.jpg"

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/fch2cxr/thermoflap.jpg""
 
And where is the vernatherm in

And where is the vernatherm inside?
That system has no external springs to keep the thermostat system 'closed'.
Inside the black housing it should be a vernatherm and spring however.
The housing itself is seated by pressure from the water pump regulated from the valve at the stb side of engine at the throttle lever sending the pressure at the gasket on the pick.
I have a feeling someone have removed the inserts.
 
"Looks like Jamie has really h

"Looks like Jamie has really hit the nail with the temp / smoking problem...!! The goo thing is that you are finding problems, problems you can fix, and slowly but surely get that motor running right. You want me to take a midnight run to Miami and look Robert up? Maybe take some big, mean guys with me?

Look at shop.evinrude.com and notice that 1990 models seem to have a removable vernatherm (# 106 on the drawing) where 1991 and 1992 do not list the vernatherm as separate (# 104 on the drawing). Does the part in your pics come open, or unscrew in any way?

This really indicates that you should go through, very thoroughly, the entire thermo system making sure it operates properly. Linkage, water control valves, etc.

1993 up doesn't have that elaborate water control valve system, and they have a completely different thermostat.
You are definitely 1992 or lower."
 
"Thanks for the offer Dough, b

"Thanks for the offer Dough, but what come around goes around and if he deliberately screwed me his time will come, as far as I’m concern little by little I been getting to the bottom of the issues and in my quest I have been able to become very personal with my motor getting to know it really well of course with the help of all of you and Marineengine.com…
But getting back to the thermostat, I don’t see any moving parts inside the thermostat, and on the bottom of it (the cone shaped side) has small holes thru which I can blow having the air exit from the two big holes on the side of the thermostat, I’m thinking that there is no valve that opens or closes because at room temperature I figure I would not be able to blow right thru the little holes and on thru the big two holes as at room temperature the little ones should be shut, does that sounds right??"
 
"You should go to your local E

"You should go to your local Evinrude dealer, and compare what the new good one looks like to what you have.
Morton suggests that maybe someone has removed the inner guts of that thermostat. You gotta compare now....

Testing it? I don't know, no experience here. My engines are very different from what you are showing on yours.

Someone else chime in?"
 
"look at the pics... took the

"look at the pics... took the second one off (portside)looks like someone broke the nose tip (cone looking side, I'm assuming the motor was running hot and "they" wanted free flow of water)which leads me to know that for sure the thermo is not holding the water in place in order to get to operating temp at low rpms...I just order two new ones with their respective seals and diaphragms items 45 and 48 in the parts list…

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/fch2cxr/S3700507.jpg"

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc150/fch2cxr/S3700508.jpg""
 
"Yeah, sounds like the guts ha

"Yeah, sounds like the guts have been fiddled with on those therms for sure. I'm betting the new ones should solve problem. You won't have fuel/oil puddling problem anymore."
 
"That's why I asked you to

"That's why I asked you to look at the 1990 parts pages, and to see if your therms came apart.....
see my previous post of 8-24 at 8:40 am.

They are shown as separate pieces in the 1990 pages and as one unit on the 1991 and 1992 pages."
 
"you are right Dough, but the

"you are right Dough, but the 1990s look different than mine, mine look exacly like the 91-92, but the parts sheet does not break them down nor show inner pieces for them, does any body knows if the 91-92 thermos have inner guts??? also in reality they are vernatherm not thermostats... if nothing else I'll will know what is the deal one I receive the new ones they should ship out today as I ordered them yesterday..."
 
"To my knowledge the internals

"To my knowledge the internals are the same. If you order the 'old' version, you will get the 'new' one.
There are some other minor change in the system.
The old seat consisted of a rubber ring and a steel cup to seal, the new has a plastic seat only. Do not mix these two versions. if the new version is installed, change the seat at the same time.
What is further a trick in the valve operated thermostat/by-pass system is to get the synch procedure correct. The position of the throttle arm inflicts directly on the valve function. Get it wrong and the valve may open either too early or too late. If too early, the engine runs lean at intermediate, if too late it runs rich and smokes!"
 
"[b]Morten[/b] can you elabora

"Morten can you elaborate more on this:
"The position of the throttle arm inflicts directly on the valve function. Get it wrong and the valve may open either too early or too late. If too early, the engine runs lean at intermediate, if too late it runs rich and smokes!"
How does synch affects the thermostats???
is there special procedures installing the new thermostats?"
 
"To get this right, you need a

"To get this right, you need an OEM manual for your specific model.
The thermostats are locked by water pressure from pump and not the usual springs.
What regulates the locking/holding pressure is the valve in the pivot point of the throttle arm. If that arm is advanced too much (false synch setting), then the closing of the valve will happen too soon, thermostats open, engine runs cool and lean. On the other hand if the lever is too far 'back' the valve closes too late, and engine may get too much fuel relative to calculated temp and run rich. However this again might depend on prop and load.
As for installing the thermostats, just see to that bleed hole is open and new gaskets/seals are used."
 
"Guys today I installed the ne

"Guys today I installed the new thermos on my motor, no luck... it still smokes like crazy, it does run a little hotter at idle but still smokes, I notice that after slowing down from WOT it runs w/o smoke for about one minute then starts to smoke, and as said before it only does it at lower rpms I'll say is bad any where under 2000 rpms, I also can see the oil/gas staining the water as exhaust exits the motor, so it appears that the problem is more of a too much gas at low rpms"
 
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