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Newb with some Honda questions.

R

ripperace

Contributing Member
Hi all! I'm new to the forum, so I'll start with a short bit of info about me, then get into it with a couple questions. I'm from Ohio, I have a small repair business repairing outboard motors and lawn and garden equipment. I've been turning wrenches on this stuff since I was a kid when my dad had his business in the early 80's. So I hope that I can contribute to the forum in a positive way.

Anyway, I just picked up a couple of older Honda 130's as a project. I haven't had the chance to really get into them. While I was looking through other sites that sell Honda parts, I took notice that it appears nobody sells oversize pistons for these. Is there anyone that does? Not that I think it's going to need it (again, I haven't opened it up yet to see), I was just curious. Also, I believe it to be one of the first years of the 130 by judging from the hood, cowling, and decals on the hood. What year did they quit running Merc built gearcases on these? I worked for a local dealer in 98 when they took up selling Hondas. The rep told us they had complaints of gear noise from those gearcases in particular, and that Honda was going to start making their own to eliminate the complaints. What do I need to look for as far as problems are concerned with these 130's?

Again, I'll post frame and engine numbers here soon. I hear through the grapevine that there's a guy on here from Ohio called Hondadude who is supposed to be really knowledgable on these. Because as far as I go, this is uncharted territory for me. Any help anyone can give me on these big Hondas would be huge. I don't get them in my shop at all. If it wasn't for old Mercs and OMCs, I wouldn't be working on outboards. LOL!

Ripper
 
Mike - AKA Hondadude - is the expert on this forum when it comes to 130's. The 130's had several major issues and several Service Bulletins were issued. These were the first fuel-injected outboards made by Honda and they had some serious problems - cracks in the head, main relay, and HP fuel pump, if I recall correctly. See if you can track down Honda Service Bulletin # 25.
 
The Merc gearcases were used on the 90 HP until about 97 or so. The 130 gearcases are made by Honda.

There are no oversize pistons that I know of... I never needed any.

Yes there were issues, but if the motor has good compression and good leak down, the engine has a pretty good chance of being sound. A lot depends on where it was used...salt water fresh water, etc. Was it maintained regularly? You know what I mean.

If you are going to get into them to any extent, you should invest in a Honda Manual. http://marine.honda.com/owners/manuals/shop-manuals

The good news or bad news....whichever way you want to look at it....the ECM has limited diagnostic capability. So the good news is...you do not need a computer to read the codes, the bad news is....you do not get the detail that you can get on the current models. There is a "winky-blinky" type trouble shooting, which, for this motor is generally adequate. It is a fairly basic fuel injected engine with only a few sensors.

Hopefully, you also got the wiring harness and key switch assemblies. That will make it much easier to get them running.

Post the serial numbers and I will try to find out if there is any history on them.

As for the Service Bulletins....by dealer agreement, I can not publish the Service Bulletins. That does not mean, they can not be discussed.

Mike

Chawk......Happy Veterans Day.....Thanks for your service....
That goes for all the vets on the Forum too!
 
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Ok. I got them unloaded and looked over. The one that is most complete shows promise. I hope what was written on the head is accurate. Somebody wrote a date of 8/26/07 at the top of the head with 180 at each plug hole. I hope thats a compression reading! As for the other powerhead, its mostly complete except for the brain box and the head is gone. BUT, the cylinders don't have a mark in them. The complete one's serial number, from what I could find is BEBE-1018780. Its frame number is BZBH-1300341. Am I correct in assuming this is an early 98 model?
 
Nope! Good news, though...it is a 2002.
It probably has high hours....it looks like it was purchased by a submarine base.

The serial number is not in the range of those that had the block problems. However, it is in the range of those that had some cracks in the head. A leakdown test will tell you for sure if everything is ok.

The compression should be between 199 and 228 psi.

If you install new spark plugs, be sure to only use the NGK ZFR7F. Do not substitute Champion, Denso's or any other brand.

Mike
 
Thank you Mike. I purchased it from Lake Erie Towing in Sandusky, who had bought this one and a couple others for parts. A submarine base you say? Can you tell me if this base was along the coast anywhere? The reason I ask is because it does seem corroded ( bolt heads, sacrificial anodes ) and was just wondering if it was used in salt or brackish water. I've got a customers Evinrude here now that was used in salt that more than likely is a lost cause due to corrosion. On the PLUS side of my Honda, there is the second powerhead that the cylinders look good on. But I guess my next step is leakdown to see where it's loosing compression. Thanks again Mike.
 
I was assuming it was a submarine base.... Refit-Naval S Trident, Bldg 4027, Code 5321, Kings Bay, GA. Google that and you will see.

If it was owned by the Navy, the motors could have gone just about anywhere. If they maintain them like I know the Coast Guard does, you might get lucky.

Mike
 
That's more than likely where Lake Erie Towing got them from as I do recall the guy telling me they got them from down south. I didn't really ask too much but I do recall that aspect that they came from down south.

Are these cylinders nikasil coated? I know some of Hondas ATV, and dirt bike stuff have nikasil coated cylinders. The guy who does machine work for me says that that stuff is damn near indestructible. Was just curious if they used it in their marine stuff.
 
I'll be having spare parts from this thing regardless. I pulled one gear case apart that I'm going to use the internals from, and another with good guts as well. The one had salt water get into the internals, and it's pretty much scrap except for the case itself. There's two extra plenums and a bunch of extra stuff. It's a little cold in Ohio (17 degrees today) and the shop is just a tad bit cold, so hopefully, later on in the week, if anyone needs anything extra I have for these, I'll have this all inventoried. I'm sure I'll be asking for advice as I build mine as I said these are uncharted territory for me on this bigger Honda stuff.
 
OK. So finally after almost a year, I pulled this Honda out of the mothballs and performed a leak down on it. You big Honda gurus, how common is it for every cylinder to have leakage on the intake valves? That's the ONLY area I'm hearing leakage at. About 30% at each intake valve set. The number 4 wasn't leaking as bad on the bottom intake vale as the top, but the other three were pretty much identical on each intake valve. Thoughts anyone? NOTHING coming from the crankcase, so I know it's in the head. So looks like the head has to come off regardless.
 
ripperace said:
OK. So finally after almost a year, I pulled this Honda out of the mothballs and performed a leak down on it. You big Honda gurus, how common is it for every cylinder to have leakage on the intake valves? That's the ONLY area I'm hearing leakage at. About 30% at each intake valve set. The number 4 wasn't leaking as bad on the bottom intake vale as the top, but the other three were pretty much identical on each intake valve. Thoughts anyone? NOTHING coming from the crankcase, so I know it's in the head. So looks like the head has to come off regardless.[/QUOTy


My guess is most likely burnt intake valves, if not serviced correctly you will burn your intakes from valve clearances not being good.
Click to expand...
 
jakepitsville is probably right.

Before you pull the head, you should at least check the valve clearances. Who knows, maybe the person who last adjusted the clearances did not do it correctly.

Also, if you pull the intake manifold before you pull the head, you may be able to visually check to see if there is an obvious issue.

Mike
 
hondadude said:
jakepitsville is probably right.

Before you pull the head, you should at least check the valve clearances. Who knows, maybe the person who last adjusted the clearances did not do it correctly.

Also, if you pull the intake manifold before you pull the head, you may be able to visually check to see if there is an obvious issue.

Mike
Click to expand...

That was my next thought after I did the leak down test. All the valves had clearance, but I didn't check each individual one with feeler gauges yet. I'm feeling that anyway I look at it, I'm looking at head or valve work regardless, which in itself is making me breath a sigh of relief because I really was hoping it wouldn't be a piston-ring issue. I'm going to go ahead and pull the intake and head regardless and see what I can see. I'll keep posting updates as I come across things.
 
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