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Neutral safety switch on 5.7 LX

Akjohn

Contributing Member
I have a 1996/97 5.7 LX with AI GENII.
I bought this package used to install in a Glasply I have been redoing.

I could use some help sorting out a neutral safety switch, the prior boat that this motor came out of has a single handle binnacle.

I will be using a sea dog 2 handle binnacle that has no provision for mounting or attaching a neutral safety switch.

On the SB riser I have a PLT22 shift plate, it has the shift interrupt switch [FONT=&quot] (87-808009T10)[/FONT] in the normal location. However there is a spot on the plate for a second switch, w according to what I have found this is called a gear indicator switch [FONT=&quot](87-808009T11).
[/FONT]Do you guys know if the gear indicator switch is a N/O or N/C switch........?
The shift interrupt switch is normally open and I need a normally closed switch, I will use this to break the yellow/red switch to the starter solenoid.


Or is there a better way to do this?

Thanks, John
 

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My search of Sea Dog binnacle mount shifter turned up nothing?

Did you mean SEA STAR???????

If so post the part number.
 
Not much information on that control....

Are you sure that is for an I/O

It may be for a inboard style boat and the neutral safety switch would/could be at the transmission ....
 
Not much information on that control....

Are you sure that is for an I/O

It may be for a inboard style boat and the neutral safety switch would/could be at the transmission ....

ghost, with all due respect, forgot about the binnacle..... it has no provision for a switch.

The question remains.... is this switch (87-808009T11) NC or NO....?
 
ghost, with all due respect, forgot about the binnacle..... it has no provision for a switch.

The question remains.... is this switch (87-808009T11) NC or NO....?

With all due respect

If you purchased a good brand, one specifically to replace a mercruiser binnacle it would have had the neutral safety switch installed in the control.
Just like every other good quality brand. WHy this one does not I dont know but if there is a location within the control to mount one I would do that vs doing what you are planning.

What you are doing is a work around.

Best of luck because you will need it as there will be situations you will wish you did not use the (shift indicator) location for a Neutral safety switch.
 
What you are doing is a work around.

Best of luck because you will need it as there will be situations you will wish you did not use the (shift indicator) location for a Neutral safety switch.

Can you expand on this a bit..? I bought the binnacle locally, it is new and at the time I didnt realize the implications of the no safety switch as I assumed it was on the motor. We have built a new helm using this binnacle and also have bought new cables for it.

I do not have the motor in the boat yet so w/o the cables connected its hard to anticipate exactly how the gear indicator switch will work, or not.

I know the arm with the detent has a ramp and another detent on each side of the center position, it strikes me those side detents may allow it to start in gear if it happened to be in that position while trying to start....

Thanks
 
As mentioned over on iboats forums, The service manual reports the gear indicator switch to be Normally Closed.

Yes I posted on both forums and I am not a frequent user.

Can you tell me which service manual would address this switch so I can understand how it functions better before I spend $30.00 bucks to try it out?

Thanks
 
Akjohn, are you certain that this is not a SeaChoice unit?
The Seachoice twin lever throttle/shift unit is a Chinese "knock-off" of the old Morse Twin S control. They look very similar, but are not of the same quality as the Morse Twin S or Teleflex Twin S.

If (key word IF) you have this model, the nuetral safety switch is a small N/C micro switch that is mounted to the under-side hanger plate.
The gear selecting cable arm swings on an "arc".
The "arc" of the arm causes the cable jacket to move towards and away from the micro switch.
As a gear is being selected, the cable jacket depresses the switch's plunger, thus opening the starter motor solenoid circuit.
It's rather crude, but it has always worked.

See page #23 (PDF page 195). It lists neutral safety switch p/n 047307 (unfortunately, there is no image of the switch)
https://www.pyacht.com/Morse-Selection.pdf


All of these units use the Morse 33C or 43C style cables.


Here is the Morse Twin S now under the name Teleflex:
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...9wAbvZ1gQ-C3jCfivoCBWsU0PKhQPejKq1IHHlYlGBfkh


Here it is again under the Sea Star name (left side):
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/...tywMGB-WYxR3E2lVfERFqSLfvd6E8VdDZQCeOh2KwezvU


This is the Morse U-Flex unit..... ( I would avoid this one! )
http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m9Ms6YVmsbXZMsxb22OOjiw.jpg





.
 
Most "microswitches" manufactured, unless they are a special version for a very high volume OEM always have "Form C" contacts, i.e. a Normally closed (NC) contact and a Normally open (NO) one. That said, any microswitch of proper electrical rating and correct "arm/actuator/mounting hole" configuration will work. No manufacturer if they can help it will design in a non standard microswitch, especially for a plain vanilla application like a neutral safety switch. Electronic parts retailers like Newark Electronics, Digi-key and Mouser carry just about every possible configuration of this type switch made by multiple manufacturers.
 
Rick & Bob, excellent info....all around...! Hopefully this evening I will have time to check this out, I assumed I could "rig" a micro switch in the binnacle, when I discovered the location for a 2nd switch on the shift plate I thought that may be simpler...

Thanks again, will check out these possibilities
 
Re: second switch on the shift plate.

I'm not familiar with that setup, but in order for that to work as a neutral safety switch, a switch mounted there will have to be in one position when in neutral (and wired as NC in line with the feed to the starter solenoid control winding) and in the other position ( no continuity) when in EITHER FWD or REV.
 
OK let's be clear. Start-in-neutral protection is a great safety measure BUT it is not a mandatory thing. That is, there is no authority going to slap you with a fine or impound your boat or anything at all like that. A NEW boat must be equipped with this to be sold, but there's nothing stopping you from disabling it as soon as you get the boat home. Of course the insurance company won't be too happy about that, but hey it's your vessel.
OK That said I do not recommend that you do not have start in neutral protection. In fact, you should also have a low oil pressure shut down switch, and a high temp shut down switch to save the engine from friction-welding itself into a useless blob. Both of the latter are cheap cheap, screw into existing holes on the engine and are quickly wired in to the IGN circuit that sends power to Mr Coil, so that if either of them trip, the spark stops.
I recommend that you stay with a single lever control that has the neutral safety built in. This will prevent one of your drunk buddies from taking the drive out of gear at WOT (or you). A single lever is easier to place and install, and just makes life easier. Try to find a used one on eBay or craigslist, or toddle down to your local boat junkyard. I guarantee you can score one for a few tens.
 
This is the exact binnacle that I have and its soon to be permanent location. I suspect I could use the above mentioned or add on a bracket to place the switch in the binnacle.




It seems that locating the switch on the shift plate, next to the solenoid, in a location that is very accessible, where there is already a provision to mount a switch seemed logical to me.

If it is indeed a NC switch then it should work fine, there are some additional ramps on the part that will actually activate the switch as I suspect this switch for a FI motor and they use that to raise lower the idle when in gear, but that just a guess since I am not that familiar with all things merc.



I have been working on this project for a while now (arent we all)..... and I could ignore the NSW and just go for it, but I am compelled to start out with things as they should be..... Not so worried about my drunk buddies wrestling me away from the helm. More concerned with "dear, will you start the boat", (she is a very competent person)....... but I would prefer to avoid a possible "oh ****" moment.... if possible. No matter who is at the controls.... even a seasoned skipper can get in a hurry.

I have reconnected the oil P, coolant and drive warning to a buzzer.... I want to know immediately when things go awry, and I will deal with as need be, but dont necessarily want the flame to go out if its a critical moment... I can make that call.

Personally I prefer separate levers for throttle and shift, it just makes the binnacle a lot simpler internally....... and Yes, I know they are a lot better than they use to be, its a personal choice.

Unless there is a really good reason not to use this switch for this purpose than I think I will give it a go...
 
OK let's be clear. Start-in-neutral protection is a great safety measure BUT it is not a mandatory thing. That is, there is no authority going to slap you with a fine or impound your boat or anything at all like that. A NEW boat must be equipped with this to be sold, but there's nothing stopping you from disabling it as soon as you get the boat home. Of course the insurance company won't be too happy about that, but hey it's your vessel.
OK That said I do not recommend that you do not have start in neutral protection. In fact, you should also have a low oil pressure shut down switch, and a high temp shut down switch to save the engine from friction-welding itself into a useless blob. Both of the latter are cheap cheap, screw into existing holes on the engine and are quickly wired in to the IGN circuit that sends power to Mr Coil, so that if either of them trip, the spark stops.
I recommend that you stay with a single lever control that has the neutral safety built in. This will prevent one of your drunk buddies from taking the drive out of gear at WOT (or you). A single lever is easier to place and install, and just makes life easier. Try to find a used one on eBay or craigslist, or toddle down to your local boat junkyard. I guarantee you can score one for a few tens.


My current boat (a 1969 ChrisCraft) came without neutral safety built in. I'd considered on and off over the years to retrofit the switch until 3 years ago. My wife and I had our boat launched at the usual spot and began the 20ish min run to our summer slip. The boat started in the ramp normally, idled normally to warm up (at least enough to move @ 140)... backed out of slip, do-s-doed around another impatient boater looking to pull his boat out @ same ramp. Ran @ 1500 RPM a couple mins to mid river (the Toms) turned to port put in on a plane then up to 2500. Went about half a mile, then up to 3000. Turned north on the Intracoastal, ran up to within 100 yards of the RT37 bridge and cut back to idle... Engine stalled DEAD. Into Neutral... restart... but would not run under 1400 RPM! Too high to shift a Volvo. Several attempts same result. Soooo, given that I do not have a Neutral Safety switch, I started it in gear. A bit of a lunge @ start, but it started and ran. Ran th several miles to "summer home" and as I approached the outer breakwater of the marina, slowed down... got below 1500... cough/die. Several attempts to restart... same thing, would not run below 1500. Soooo... Start in gear, kill ignition soon as boat started to move, drift to stop, repeat... until I got close enough to the slip to snag the outer piling.


Re: single lever vs dual... In addition to my boat which has a first generation MORSE side mount single lever, I regularly "drive" two other club owned boats. One a 24 ft inboard Privateer, the other a 23 ft inboard CC Mako. Both have 350 CID engines of about 225 HP. The Privateer has a Morse top mount single lever, the MAKO has a Morse dual lever. My "mission profile" for both boats involves management of sailboat races, and as such some amount of close quarter maneuvering is involved.

Of the three boats, I prefer the dual lever for maneuverability. I find with the single lever control boats, that when "sudden" shifts from FWD to REV or visa versa are made, one can quite easily overshoot the "detent" (such as it is) and give the boat a "goose" when engaging gear, when all one wanted was an engagement @ idle RPM. With the dual lever MAKO, I set the engine @ idle and can control the boat in close quarters maneuvering ( for those of you that sail, for being the "pin boat @ start" and monitoring the "line" where boat location within a tight area is required) with just careful in/out of gear and no throttle... not unlike what you would do while fishing hard structure.


Re: No oil and hi temp shutdowns.
While a No oil pressure shutoff to electric fuel pump is a USCG requirement, I would not install one on an engine with a mechanical fuel pump. Nor would I install an engine high temp shut off on any engine. A big loud alarm, yes.... instant auto shut off NO. Scenario... coming in thru a nasty inlet... no oil, or hi temp.... Engine stops... OOPS!!!! Maybe you are in a situation where potential future engine damage needs to be traded off vs running the boat for another couple mins to be safe.

Just my OPINION based on about 50 years of boating in such spots as Barnegat Inlet and the Point Pleasant Canal.
 
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Bob, re; your post #22....... I did not follow your first paragraph, nor do I know if you were somehow suggesting that a Neutral Safety switch would have anything to do with an engine stalling.
A Kill Switch lanyard..... yes!


As for dual lever throttle/shift controls......... for those of you hwo have not owned a boat with a dual lever control system, you are missing the advantages.
I have the old tried and proven Morse Twin S controls (twin engine dual station boat), and I would not own a boat without them.


As for the LOP switch and/or High Temp switch....... Yes..... I fully agree that we DO NOT want a Low Oil Pressure switch that has the ability to shut an engine down, nor a High Temp switch that would do the same.
I agree for the same reason that you do!
Use these to activate an Alarm and/or Warning Light......... yes!



.
 
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re:" Bob, re; your post #22....... I did not follow your first paragraph, nor do I know if you were somehow suggesting that a Neutral Safety switch would have anything to do with an engine stalling."

What I was getting at, in a rather long winded way, was that if I did have a neutral safety switch, I would have had to try to shift the engine into gear @ 1500+ rpm, (repeatedly) risking damage, where 1500 RPM was suddenly the minimum speed that the engine would run at either in gear or neutral. 1500 RPM in my boat leaves quite a wake, so transiting under the No Wake Zone operator controlled lift section of the bridge required multiple starts/stalls, and maneuvering in the marina when I got there also required a handful of starts/stalls as well. Instead, I was able to start the engine in gear with a bit of a lurch each time. All in all over a dozen starts in gear. The problem turned out to be a bit of ethanol induced tan colored crap that totally blocked one of the venturies in my TKS carb.
 
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Finally getting back on this project, I picked up a gear indication switch and it is a NC switch, Thanks to those that knew that.

In any case so far it works just fine, the adjustment is slightly sensitive and I may have to adjust after things settle in. The big thing is neither me or my "drunk" buddies will be engaging the starter when it is in gear.

Personally I prefer a two handled control as it allows one to fast idle the engine if need be and it is a simpler control when each lever just has one function. The control sadly may have been made in china.. however that may be I would have to report the quality is good to excellent. It has a lot of adjustment for cable travel and the controls are smooth with adjustable detents and tension. Time will tell.

I do have the alarm for oil pressure, coolant temperature and low drive oil connected.... so far so good.

FYI, the switch is on a bullet connector, male/female, if the switch fails I can very quickly (lift the engine cover) and bypass the switch...


It was a little hard to start,,,,https://vimeo.com/260702131
 

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........................
Personally I prefer a two handled control as it allows one to fast idle the engine if need be and it is a simpler control when each lever just has one function. The control sadly may have been made in china.. however that may be I would have to report the quality is good to excellent. It has a lot of adjustment for cable travel and the controls are smooth with adjustable detents and tension. Time will tell.

The Morse Twin S is an excellent tried and proven throttle/shift control unit.
http://images.jamestowndistributors.com/woeimages/engine/250_250/14819-1.jpg
I have four of them on my SDN F/B boat and they have been trouble-free.

A company called SeaChoice offers a Morse Twin S Knock-Off unit.
https://ssli.ebayimg.com/images/g/gjwAAOxyVaBSsx1q/s-l640.jpg

I have seen these up close..... and I would steer clear of these.
A good used Morse Twin S will outperform a new SeaChoice unit.




.
 
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The Morse Twin S is an excellent tried and proven throttle/shift control unit.
http://images.jamestowndistributors.com/woeimages/engine/250_250/14819-1.jpg
I have four of them on my SDN F/B boat and they have been trouble-free.

A company called SeaChoice offers a Morse Twin S Knock-Off unit.
https://ssli.ebayimg.com/images/g/gjwAAOxyVaBSsx1q/s-l640.jpg

I have seen these up close..... and I would steer clear of these.
A good used Morse Twin S will outperform a new SeaChoice unit.




.

If there was a way to put a dual lever in my boat, in a place that I could reach while standing without butchering things, I would!
 
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