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I need some help please!!!

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katt16

New member
I bought a brand new bayliner 185 2013 off the showroom floor in 2015 (never in the water or even started). It has a 220hp 4.3lt mercruiser alpha one stern drive engine. The engine has only 118 hours on it. Last year towards the end of the year I noticed when I went full throttle it felt like it was pulling a little. It still ran great at 3/4 throttle and around 50 mph. I knew my 100 hour service was coming up so I would address then. My boat is garage kept and I even have a heated garage for it. I took my boat in 2 weeks ago for the 100 hour service. I was told that I had a compression loss in cylinder 3 of 37% loss. They performed a decarb and I had a reading compression of 174 after the decarb. All other cylinders were fine. Nothing else was reported. I picked my boat up and put it back in the garage. I took my boat out Saturday, as soon as I started it, it did not sound right. Idled rough right off the bat. I get out in the main channel and go full throttle the boat only went 50 mph to start. Then the MPH and rpms began to fall. I stopped and the boat cut off. I couldn't get it started. I waited 20 minutes and was able to get the boat started. On idle it was rougher than before. The boat was vibrating and I smelled gas really badly. We went back to the dock. On the way back I put the boat at full throttle. It would not go above 5 mph for about 40 seconds. Then it would speed upto about 35 mph no higher and only 2800 rpms. Got back to the Marina it stalled 3 more times. Took right back where I had it serviced. Called this morning and they are telling me now I have no compression in cylinders 3 and 5. I paid a total of $896.00 for the service and now my boat does not run at all. It ran better before I had them touch it. It will not be fully looked at until Wednesday. What could of happened here???
 
I paid a total of $896.00 for the service and now my boat does not run at all.
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My suggestion:

When ever you bring a car, truck or boat to a repair shop, ask for, and be willing to pay for, proper diagnostics up front.

Only upon receiving proper and thorough diagnostics, and only upon receiving a "work scope quote" in written form that refers to the diagnostics, do you authorize the repair work.
If the work scope is performed (based on the diagnostics), and if the work scope does not correct the issue...... you should not be required to pay for it.

Otherwise, you are leaving yourself wide open to the costs that will follow an "estimate"!
These shops LOVE estimates!

Also, please note that WOT RPM is a test RPM only.
It is used to determine if the engine is geared correctly and propped correctly for the boat and how the boat is loaded.
It is NOT an RPM that is to be sustained for any duration..... unless you wish to shorten the life of your engine!







.
 
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Are you having the service done at the place where you bought the boat? Is there any kind of warranty on it? Decarbonizing (properly) involves removing the cylinder heads. Is that what was done prior to the total failure?
Good news, if there can be any here, is that whatever the issue is, it should be easily made right. Even if the problem is a blown head gasket that's far from being the end of the world.
Question in my mind; who has to pay for this? If it's me in your place I would be making a huge scene hoping that they'd cave in and fix it.
 
....for future reference: for maximum engine life and low repair costs, maximum wide open throttle operation should be reserved for occasional 15 to 20 SECOND bursts to verify engine operation, hull cleanliness and prop condition and not used as an operating condition. Maximum continuous engine RPM should be limited to 80% of that engine's RPM at wide open throttle, provided that the observed RPMs, at Wide Open Throttle (WOT) is within the specified MAX WOT RPM specified for that engine.
 
Oh bulls**t. People wanna floor it when they hit the water. If that kills the engine, then something basic is wrong with the whole system. I guarantee you that the engineers at Mercruiser run these engines at WOT for extended periods to find out what it takes to make them fail. If it's only 100 hours then there would be lawsuits flying through every courtroom in America. If they didn't want them running at WOT there would be rev limiters. Let's just drop this mythology.
 
o2batsea said:
Oh bulls**t. People wanna floor it when they hit the water. If that kills the engine, then something basic is wrong with the whole system. I guarantee you that the engineers at Mercruiser run these engines at WOT for extended periods to find out what it takes to make them fail. If it's only 100 hours then there would be lawsuits flying through every courtroom in America. If they didn't want them running at WOT there would be rev limiters. Let's just drop this mythology.
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Ah Men!!

It's like we have a few who believe they have some kind of daddy complex...........drive it like ya stole it I say!


As I have said so many f'n times.............stick with the subject, not stupid advice that has nothing to do with the OP's problem!

Red line on virtually any given engine is 5500 rpm and that has a safety factor already built in.

So if a boat OWNER wants to run the boat at 4800rpm until the freakin cows come home then so be it!
If it wears out after 1000 hrs then so the F what

Who ever said WOT is a test...........ugh!
 
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Originally Posted by Capt Bob
....for future reference: for maximum engine life and low repair costs, maximum wide open throttle operation should be reserved for occasional 15 to 20 SECOND bursts to verify engine operation, hull cleanliness and prop condition and not used as an operating condition. Maximum continuous engine RPM should be limited to 80% of that engine's RPM at wide open throttle, provided that the observed RPM, at Wide Open Throttle (WOT), is within the specified MAX WOT RPM specified for that engine.




Bob knows his stuff! :)



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Originally Posted by kghost
Ah Men!!

It's like we have a few who believe they have some kind of daddy complex...........
You appear to be very threatened by the knowledge and opinions of other members.


drive it like ya stole it I say!
Would any of us buy a car or truck that had been stolen by a teenager who ran the crap out of it?
I certainly would not!


As I have said so many f'n times.............stick with the subject, not stupid advice that has nothing to do with the OP's problem!
Is this to suggest that because YOU have said something many f'n times, that it adds merit to it?
In other words, by repeating something it increases the likelihood of it being correct?


Red line on virtually any given engine is 5500 rpm and that has a safety factor already built in.
Red Line RPM and OEM WOT RPM are not the same thing!


So if a boat OWNER wants to run the boat at 4800rpm until the freakin cows come home then so be it!
If it wears out after 1000 hrs then so the F what
Great advice for those who have no interest in engine longevity!

Who ever said WOT is a test...........ugh!
No one to my knowledge.
It has been said that the OEM WOT RPM test is used to determine if a Marine engine is geared and propped correctly.


Helping others sometimes with an attitude..
That is an understatement!




This is from PropshopInc in Mukilteo WA, and is just one explanation.
You can find many more!

Why is Wide Open Throttle (WOT) RPM so important? As I have mentioned in a previous blog post, what WOT RPM you are getting along with your current propeller size and pitch are the most important numbers for us to determine which props you can and should be running on your boat. Every engine has a WOT RPM operating range that is specified by the manufacturer. Not being within this range can not only affect performance, but damage the engine as well.
Many people will ask, “I never run my engine at full throttle, so why do I need to know what my WOT RPM is?” To answer that question, we will be looking at a section from Quicksilver’s publication, Everything You Need to Know About Propellers. This guide was put out by Brunswick, Quicksilver’s parent company in 1992. BTW, Brunswick owns Mercury Marine.
“An engine that does not reach the rated RPM at wide-open-throttle is an “over-propped” condition, resulting in “lugging.” This high-torque operation puts a tremendous load on the pistons, crankshaft, and bearings. The engine runs much hotter and may overheat from having over-advanced spark timing for the reduced amount of fuel entering the engine. The mechanical strain on an over-propped marine engine is like starting an automobile in third gear from a dead stop at the bottom of a hill. This severe strain can lead to detonation, piston seizure, and engine damage.
On the other hand, an engine that revs past the recommended RPM will have higher than normal wear and can also be damaged by fatigued parts breaking and passing through the engine.
This is why it is so critical to be sure your engine is propped correctly for your boat/engine combination and the type of boating you want to do.”
I would like to add that what your engine does at WOT tells us what it will do at other throttle locations. In other words, if you are lugging at the top end, you will be lugging in the middle and at the low end.

You may be saying to yourself, “That’s good to know, but what does that information do for me?” The answer is that once you know what RPM you are getting at WOT, you have a pretty good idea as to which changes you need to make to get into your recommended RPM range. Every inch of pitch equals about 200 RPM with RPM and pitch having an inverse relationship. When you go UP an inch of pitch, your RPM should DECREASE by around 200. When you go DOWN an inch of pitch, your RPM should INCREASE around 200 RPM. Also, as you increase pitch, you should increase speed, but lose low end or hole shot. Basically, the higher the pitch the faster you go (as long as you remain in the engine’s power band) and the longer it takes to get on plane. I have provided a link to a chart put out by Michigan Wheel that shows recommended WOT RPM for many engines. This chart is only a rough guide and you should consult your engine manual for more clarification.
 
This is mostly true for a carbed 1992 non roller engine.

The Engine management on a newer MPI engine will pull timing in the upper rpm range. With roller everything and the new pcm on a new engine you can run them in the upper rpm range without over elevated EGT's.

Customer with SeaRay 280 Sundancer w/twin Mercruiser 4.3 MPI Bravo 3, 800 hrs, 700+ hrs over 4300rpm. He runs it on the pins all the time. Runs it like he hates it.


As for the OP, have a leak down test done to determine where the failure is. I am assuming that this is a 2bbl carbed engine and you may have stretched an intake valve or two due to a lean condition.
 
Ditto Chris's comments.
If the thing was improperly tuned from the stealership, then a lawyer is probably the next person I would be calling, not the mechanic. This fail is not the OP's fault AFAICT. Find out what your rights are as a consumer even if the warranty period is up.
Ask Takata how they feel about liability for out of warranty items....
 
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The place where I bought my boat moved to outboards only. So no. I have used this shop before with no issues. All I know is they said decarb as I had carbon build up on cylinder 3. Yes this was done prior to the failure. My boat ran fine in February. Like I said I had a 100 hours service also. new spark plugs, water pump, filters, lube, lower unit drained, oil change etc. I just have a hard time grasping the fact that before I went there my boat ran without issue. Now after a service it does not run at all. That I have a problem with.
 
o2batsea said:
Oh bulls**t. People wanna floor it when they hit the water. If that kills the engine, then something basic is wrong with the whole system. I guarantee you that the engineers at Mercruiser run these engines at WOT for extended periods to find out what it takes to make them fail. If it's only 100 hours then there would be lawsuits flying through every courtroom in America. If they didn't want them running at WOT there would be rev limiters. Let's just drop this mythology.
Click to expand...

I have a degree in Electrical Engineering with a minor in Mechanical Engineering... and two patents, and held a 50T USCG Masters license from 1986 until 2013 when I dropped it for health reasons. I have also owned and maintained my own ( and friends boats, and now my YC's boats) since 1964 and with those credentials I've talked directly to engineers at engine manufacturers. I was also privy to life test data from a company that ran comparative intentional WOT life tests on various US built engines. Due to NDAs, I can't name names...

In brief...from engineers at two different manufacturer, running a USA built consumer grade automotive derived engine @ WOT results in a life measured in the low hundreds of hours. Some brands are better than others. One "popular" engine failed after 50 hours. Running at 80% increases life to low thousands of hours, 70 to 75% better, and 60% up to 5000 hours. Engines with heat exchangers and running with 160 degree ish T'stats exhibit life on the high end of the scale, RAW water with 140 ish T'stats are at the low end of the scale...

NOT a mythology... Engines are designed ( and "cost accounted" redesigned) to just survive the initial warranty period, ( usually 2 years) which for most engines is ....in the VERY low 100s of hours, if not TENS of hours.

The last engine manufacturer that considered the commercial fisherman market and tried to build a better gas engine was Chrysler.
 
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Bob, as much as I wish we could...... there is no way you or I are going to make any sense (at all) to the guy who "helps others sometimes with an attitude".
 
I am glad you gave us your resume............

Mine wouldn't fit on these pages..............I certainly wouldn't share it here anyways...........


Owning a boat and fixing them for a living is apples to oranges.................Not the same!

All your "advice" on WOT operation should be kept to the posts that that question is specifically asked.


NO ONE WANTS THAT SPEW WHEN UNRELATED TO THE OP POST.

No one said to run a engine at WOT from day one and only at WOT until it fails........................

No one needs or cares about "WOT is for test only" crap...............keep it and stuff it where the sun don't shine!

Spewing copied and pasted information to up ones post count is also a bunch of crap.........

And yes, Attitude towards morons who dont actually know spit!
 
re: Owning a boat and fixing them for a living is apples to oranges.................Not the same!


I Agree!! In my particular case, I maintain my boats and the ones I'm responsible for based on reliability of operation, longevity, and lowest cost consistent with the first two goals. MOST ( Not all, there are some notable exceptions, some on this forum!!!) "professional" mechanics I've delt with are concerned with... upping the bill with the minimum effort and thought.

All your "advice" on WOT operation should be kept to the posts that that question is specifically asked.

And your critiques as to appropriateness of other posters content kept to when its specifically asked for...
 
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