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Honda BF15D 2008 engine oil light of or flickering

K

Killerbean

Member
Hello,

Yesterday i purchased a used Honda 15hp year 2008.
The engine sat still for 10 months. it fired right up and all was well.
Oil light shining bright.
Engine oil is fresh and just below maximum on the dipstick.

After that i started to polish the hood of the engine with the machine.
When i started the engine afterwards the oil light flickers a few time (no special pattern)
But has been of for most of the time now.
I have cleaned the connectors since some of them where corroded.

I have put the multimeter on the oil pressure sensor and measuring 5 volts AC idling and more AC volts when i give more throttle.
When i measure the jack connectors that lead from the CDI unit to the bulb itself i really dont measure anything.
I have tried hooking a 9v battery to the oil check light bulb but no succes.

Since the polishing machine vibrates a lot, and with the corroded wires, i think it must be somehting simple.

my questions:
Is the oil pressure sensor outputting AC or DC voltage?
It the oil check light require AC of DC voltage?
How can i check the actual working of the oil check light?

Thanks in advance, i will post the final solution and i hope somebody can help me.
Hope my English is good enough, cheers from the Netherlands :)
 
When the (single) wire from the oil pressure sensor is removed:

Powered off i measure on the multimeter 001 (its open)
Powered on i measure on the multimeter O.L. (its closed)

I think the oil pressure sensor is okay
I cannot get any light to shine from the green oil warning light.
 
Ok, first off, your English is excellent. Welcome to the forum.

If you haven't done a complete oil drain and filter change I would urge you to do that before continuing to run the engine. It's not what you asked about but I consider it important enough to mention it.

As to the oil lamp indicator I will say that I haven't worked much on that system but I do have the correct service manual. I find that the shop manual is less than clear (at least to me) about how that system functions. But I will tell you what is written about checking it.

As I think you already know, Honda uses a "strategy" to indicate "good oil pressure" by having the green oil indicator light on anytime the engine is running and the oil pressure is "good".

The shop manual says that you should start the engine and let it idle. The indicator should be "ON". If the indicator doesn't illuminate then, with the engine still running at idle, disconnect the yellow wire from the oil pressure switch and, if the indicator lights you are directed to use a manual gauge and check for adequate oil pressure. You do that by removing the oil pressure switch and replacing it with an adapter to hook the gauge up consisting of 1/8" X 28 BSPT. I have one I purchased from AMAZON for a few dollars.

The oil pressure is listed as: 147 kpa (21.3 psi)

If the lamp doesn't light with the engine at idle and the yellow wire disconnected from the pressure switch they say to check the indicator lamp

The problem is, when I turn to the page (17-27) they point to for checking the oil pressure indicator, it talks about checking the operation of the neutral indicator lamp and NOT the oil pressure indicator! So, I am trying to figure that part out and will just have to get back to you if I can understand where to go next. Hopefully someone else knows and can explain it to both of us.

In the meantime, you can simply try the test of removing the yellow wire with the engine at idle and observe those results.

Good luck.
 
I should have asked you if this outboard is remote control or tiller?

Is it pull start only?

Thanks.
 
Thank you for the reply and for your compliments jgmo :)

Its a pullstart only and its a tiller (no remote control)
I have purchased the Honda BF15d/BF20d workshop manual now i think it is the same one as you have.
But to me it is not fully clear.

I really do think that the oil pressure itself and the pressure sensor are okay, since the connection is closed when the engine is off, and the connection is open when the engine is idling. (or vice versa but there is a difference when idling or engine of) and the oil pressure light is on of off.

Today i noticed some leaking from the thermostat housing, the gasket is leaking a little bit so will replace that. It might be possible that this have leaked onto the regulator. The regular 12v 6a charge plug doesnt work either.

Now i am not sure if the CDI unit and the Oil light are DC or AC. if they are DC they might get the power from the regulator and if that is broken then the oil light will never shine. I would really like to know if the oil light is ac or dc? i just would like to make sure it just works before replacing it. I tried a 9v battery and 5v from the oil pressure sensor directly but no luck.

When i disconnect the yellow wire nothing happens.
But i can measure the yellow wire to be 0 volts when not connected
And +/- 5v when it IS connected to the sensor.

I will change the oil later this week, i will do a big service package all together. But honestly i would rather see the engine oil light be working before i spend any money on the engine. But yes you are right :)

And yes i couldnt find anything about the oil pressure light itself also. i tried a lot of search terms in the 400 pages document :)

I will post the wiring of the engine here too.

For today:
Can you, or anybody with acces please provide the honda parts number for the oil light? my engine is the BF15d 2008 serial BALJ-1019XXX
Can anybody tell me how to power up the oil light with a regular battery or voltage, its just a black and orange wire.
Is the 12v regulator really connected to the CDI and powering the CDI with DC voltage?
Or is the CDI powered with AC power directly. (Regulator only powering the 12v 6a plug)

Your help is much welcome. thank you !
 
wiring.jpg






1647363198891.jpg
 
Last edited:
If i follow the wiring from the generator i have 2 grey wires. They provide 5/6v ac when idling and more when i throttle up.
They both go to the Regulator without any extra connections.
From the Regulator i have green and white going directly (with fuse) to the charge socket.

I think that the whole system is AC besides the Regulator (providing for the charge socket)
This should mean that the oil light and the CDI unit are working on AC power directly from the generator

Is there any possibility that my thoughs are correct?
 
Hi Killerbean,

Yes, I agree with you that the CDI is working off of ac voltage only. As you can see in your diagram, there are two magneto coils under the flywheel. The charge coil...which is connected only to the regulator/rectifier....and the exciter coil that connects directly to the CDI.

The pulsar coil shown is mounted under the camshaft pulley to provide a spark timing signal.

It is my opinion that the exciter coil voltage is used to power the oil indicator light in addition to providing power to the ignition coil. But, that is ONLY my opinion because I have never tested for that.

On page 17-27 of your shop manual it states that if you apply 12 volts from a fully charged battery to the orange and black wires the lamp should illuminate. I am not convinced that is correct but I have never tried doing that. I own a BF20D but it has a remote control. The indicator for my outboard is located in the remote box and not on the outboard like yours. I have not found a reference for testing the lamps (oil and overheat warnings) in the remote control as yet.

If, in fact, the lamp works on 12 volts dc then I assume that the ac voltage is being rectified inside the CDI before exiting on the terminal for the orange wire. But, again, just an assumption because I have never tested for that. I suppose that the lamp assembly itself could provide the rectifier (diode) needed. I just don't know.

It's embarrassing to me that, as much as I have worked on many Honda outboards, I have never taken the time to test the voltages exiting the CDI. It's just that the Honda ignition is typically very reliable and trouble free so I was never forced to "dig in" and build a data base. Now, I think I had better do it on my 20D before I have a problem!

Anyway, below is a link to the parts page from www.boats.net for the oil case. The indicator is item #14. Part number 37210-ZY1-003

https://www.boats.net/catalog/honda...999/oil-case-shift-shaft-handle-specification

Good luck with your outboard.
 
I forgot to say that you mentioned that the lamp was working ok until you began using "the machine" (buffer/polisher?) and then it was flickering afterwards. You suspected that the vibration from the buffer may have caused a connection to come loose. I would suspect so too. I would check the connections for the orange and black wires at the CDI 12 pin connector.

Also, you can see in the wire diagram that there is a "T" connection in the black wire to the CDI as it runs to the ground lug on the engine. If cleaning, and possibly tightening, those connections doesn't bring any joy then you may want to locate that "T" and make sure it's secure.

Good luck
 
Hello Jgmo,

After a few days of fiddling with the bulb and the local outboard shop i received this image:

lampje.jpg


This is what you where talking about i think?
This should indicate that the bulb itself is DC powered. When connected to a 12v car battery there is still no light. When i reverse the connection nothing aswell.
But..... when i measure the wires coming from the CDI i do not measure 12v DC current but only 0,7v DC
Is there a change that the CDI has an internal part that converts AC to DC ?


Its a real mystery to me.
CDI broken?
Bulb Broken?
Or the rectifier broken (but i thought it was not connected to the cdi)

Thank you very much for the correct part number , it is much appriciated, makes the search a lot easier.

Yes the bulb was working perfect before using the buffer. After the buffer it started flickering and afterwards it stopped alltogether.
When i pulled the rubber seal from the orange oil pressure sensor i noticed that the orange wire was not (or not securely) connected to the sensor pin. The connector was 'loose'. So i tought for a second that i found the problem. But unfortunately not. I checked all the wires themself for resistance.

When i measure the orange wire DISconnected from the oil pressure sensor i get 0 volts idling
When i measure the orange wire Connected to the oil pressure sensor i get around 5volts idling

The engine is running perfect and yes i have ordered a complete service pack for it.
But i do hope to fix this issue because for example the cdi unit is a very expensive unit.

I read the last days anywhere on this forum another person having a problem with the oil light. He purchased a new light and tried to put it on a 9v battery for testing but still the new light didnt work. (but it did work on the engine)

I overpayed for the engine recently so i hope to only fix what is broken instead of guessing and order new stuff.

Will keep updating here :)
Cheers from the Netherlands
 
Yes i have checked yellow(ish) from Oil pressure sensor to CDI. resitance is 0 (perfect)
Orange from CDI to oil light connector , resistance is 0 (perfect)
Cleaned the ground connection up, Black from CDI to ground is 0 (perfect)
Black from CDI straight to black to oil light connector resistance is 0 (perfect)

Maybe i have to measure if there is any voltage coming from the alternator to the cdi?
But if this didnt work the engine should also nog run fine i think?

I tried measuring the cdi using this sheet but i get total different values.
cdi.jpg
 
After a long phone call with my father (amateur mechanic) he said to me:
Some types of christmas lights, if there is 1 bulb broken, none of them work. All bulbs are needed to close the circuit.

Then i remembered that i dont measure any power on the orange and black wires coming from the CDI going to the oil pressure light.
I'm pretty sure that the light itself has to work (close the circuit) for the power to flow and light to shine.

I just ordered a new light and will let you know if it fixed the problem.
I have good hopes !
Fingers crossed
 
Hi Killerbean,
I am sorry you're having such trouble but I hope you can get it sorted out. I will be learning a lot from your testing and appreciate your efforts.

I agree with the "Christmas light theory" that your father brings up. I don't actually know but it makes good sense to me. Your idea about the circuit needing the bulb hooked in for voltage to be present makes sense too because the magneto needs to be grounded through it to generate electricity on that "branch" of the circuit. That's a guess though.

Your observation about the CDI not being the problem because the engine runs well makes good sense to me as well.

What doesn't make any sense is why Honda chose to include pages and pages of the manual to the wire routing at "connector bracket A" but almost nothing useful about how to troubleshoot this oil lamp. I have yet to find any reference to "connector bracket B" either! Although, there is a "start mount B" or something like that.

That resistance grid you speak of has always seemed useless to me. I too have tried using it to troubleshoot but never got anywhere near the values that are printed. I use two expensive FLUKE 87 multimeters so I'm positive my measurements are accurate.

In addition, a professional Honda tech that I consider MUCH more knowledgeable than me told me that chart didn't work for him either.

I have my fingers crossed for you too that the new lamp fixes it.
 
Dear Jgmo,

After a week of waiting the lamp finally arrived. And..... it still doesnt work.
Im not sure what to do now anymore.

It seems like a problem engine wich gives a lot of headache and stress

I didnt preform the service yet because i wanted to see the oil light working first.
But still the new light doesnt work with a 1.5 or 9v battery. maybe because it needs 12v but i am scared to 'fry' the new bulb.
I also tried to measure the bulb with the multimeter but there is no reading.

I would like to measure if there is power going into the CDI.
Because there is no power coming out of the CDI going to the bulb.

What would you recommend?
Oil pressure test first? Wich gauge will fit the engine?
Big maintenence first? (i rather spend money on it when i know the basics are fine)
Chaging the CDI?

Is there anybody that have succes with powering their bulb outside the engine? (from a battery / alternator)

thanks in advance
 
After an hour of worrying...

I used my endoscope to look inside the engine if i could find any sludge. It was fully clean.

I then started to again disconnect and reconnect some wires to make some measurements.
And all out of a sudden the new bulb started working ! The problem solved in an instant. Just like it occured.
Maybe there still were some connections corroded.

So for now..... i am very happy !
I have tested the old bulb again, but no luck, the old bulb is broken.

Offcourse i took my multimeter to measure for once and for all:

Multimeter on 200v DC setting:
1.5v alkaline battery aa = 1.6 volt
9 v block battery = 9.4 volt
Oil pressure sensor = 11.3 Volt at idle (other side on ground/engine block)
Oil pressure Light = 54 Volt (other side on ground/engine block)

Multimeter on 200v AC setting
1.5v alkaline battery aa = 2.7 volt
9v block battery = 19.8 volt
Oil pressure sensor = 23 Volt at idle (other side on ground/engine block)
Oil pressure Light = 118 Volt at idle (other side on ground/engine block)

I still dont know 100% for sure that the system is AC or DC. I measured all the values twice because i cannot beleive specially the oil pressure light value.

But.... most important, it works !!!!
Now i take a beer and relax, pfew :cool:
 
Fabulous! Best news!

But now I still wonder what was the problem?? Loose wire connection? I say yes, that was probably the case but still not a "certainty".

Yes, those voltage measurements are "confusing" to me too but I'm not an electrical engineer. I am positive those are ac voltage readings. I sure would like to run those measurements by an engineer and see if I can understand the explanation;>)

I suspect that it has something to do with how the digital meter samples and interprets the voltage. The dc volts reading being approximately 50% of the ac volts could just be the meter displaying the + side of the ac sine wave.

You may want to take measurements of the ignition coil voltage to see how it compares and that would also provide you with a database of what is "good" in case you ever need it.

But, at any rate, you have your "Green Lantern" working again and thats
GREAT!

Cheers!

BTW...
....what is the best Netherlands beer?
 
First of all, i have to dissapoint you guys about the beer taste is very personal in my country so there is no single one best beer.
We used to drink Heineken , Amstel and Grolsh brand.
But now most of the people like special beers, like 'Affligem triple' , 'La Chouffe' and 'Karmeliet triple'.
Usually regular simple beers for everyday, special beers when we are out of town.

About the outboard, started here up this morning, she ran perfect just on the first pull. Everything was fine. I will do the big maintenence very soon :)
I cannot tell for sure what the problem was.
One of my friends told me that sometimes the CDI unit has to 'learn' the new light before it will work. But since i beleive the honde system is old and simple i dont beleive that. I cannot tell for sure what the problem was.

But the old light was definately broken and the new light only works on 54v DC or 118v AC according to my multimeter. Im still not sure if the bulb is ac or dc and since it does work now i dont want to change it again. Just use the engine and get familiar with it.
Jgmo i think you are correct that it actually is possible that the system works in a special way that the multimeter cant read out correctly.
Very strange but most important is that is the system works.


I will post on later an update but for now it looks like the problem is solved !
Have a nice day guys
Very thanks for the help Jgmo:)
 
Well ANY beer is good beer when you haven't had one in awhile.

Yes, we too, across the ocean from you, have spread our tastes out to "microbrew" and specialty beers.

But I still enjoy a Heineken from a certain bar that keeps fresh kegs of it ice cold and I typically will drink a good Mexican lager like Modelo or Pacifico from bottles.

Any day the outboard starts and runs on the first pull is a good day for sure!

Congratulations and keep the deck out of the �� water.
 
I'm a Pilsner guy. Never tried a pale ale that would float my dinghy. But I'm also not afraid to try something new and maybe the Lagunitas will be the one that I like.
Thanks for the tip.
 
Hello Again :)

I will be doing the big maintenence this week.
But i wanted to begin with the leaky thermostat first.
I cleaned and tested the thermostat and it was fine, the housing was also clean and fine.

The rubber seal was hard and i replaced it.
As far as i can see.... there is no leaking anymore. Yay !

But... i do see some drips coming out of the hole above the thermostat housing, i have marked it in the photo.
Does anybody know what or why this is?
This is giving water / moisture inside the engine room wich is not okay.

Inked1648485950578-LI.jpg


I found another video online wich also have this hole.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-SaYubHvBo

I cant find anything in the workshop manual for it.
Any idea's ?
 
Hi Killerbean,
Yes, that is the flush port and they are notorious for leaking. A very poor design. See items 2, 3 and 4 in the link below for the parts involved.

https://www.boats.net/catalog/honda...a-vin-balj-1400001-to-balj-1499999/thermostat

You could replace just the seal (item 4) or seal and spring (item 2) the piston (item 3) is typically ok and can be reused.

OR, you could simply try cleaning the seal and it's seat or try turning it over to present the opposite side to the seat. That often works just as well as installing new parts.

I have learned NOT to use the port after I get it sealed because it usually starts leaking again after the first use. But, if the spring is new and the seal is fresh and soft, you can probe in the hole with a pocket screwdriver to realign the valve and get it to stop leaking. What a pain though!

Some guys have chosen to install a plug, with sealer, and just be done with it completely.

If you go back in to address the flush port, you should take that opportunity to inspect and replace the internal zinc (item 1)
I also recommend replacing the screw that holds the zinc (item 12) as it will corrode and will sieze to the threads. You don't want that to happen because drilling and tapping that small hole would be a very difficult repair.

Good luck.
 
I would advise anyone that operated one of these outboards in salt water to flush it in a tub or trashcan instead of using that flush port. The trashcan method allows the engine to run and heat up thereby opening the thermostat. This provides a much more thorough flushing of the cylinder head and engine block.

Flushing with that port or using muffs will not have the tstat opening because it is just circulating cold water, even with the engine running.

You just need to keep in mind that flushing in a trashcan will cause the supply water to heat up as the engine heats up. This could cause engine overheat if not closely monitored and fresh, cold water is introduced to moderate the temperature. Never walk away from an engine that's running when doing a flush of either method.
 
Hahah, you just must type quicker :p
Thx very much for the input.

I really would like to give this outboard the best care i can.
But for now, i purchased it and i have had nothing but touble with it. It wasnt cheap and for this summer i just want it to do its job.

So i will service it but i wont do extra things that can be fixed easily (like just endcap this hole now)
I will never use this engine in salt water since i only use it in-land.
But i do want to look at your tip about fiddling and twisting the valve with a small screwdriver.
Its this piece like in the picture correct?

Naamloos.jpg


The engine first has to 'proof' that its a good engine, then i'm willing to change out the flush valve next winter.

Did you ever feel the temperature of the water coming out of the pee hole?
Yes i can definately feel that when the engine warms up, the water of the pee hole is cold at first, but at a certain point is warmer.
And i can 'see' the thermostat opening since the water coming from the pee hole varies slightly a certain points. Im not sure how to explain.

In short, if your engine is fully warmed up, is the water from the pee-hole very hot, of just warm to the touch?
I can feel the engine block being too hot to touch (wich is good since the oil temp should be around 80 degrees celsius)

I just would like to check and double check sorry for all the questions :eek:
 
Yes, no big deal at all. If you try the "jiggle with a screwdriver" technique you have to do it while the engine is running. You jiggle it a bit and see if it stops leaking or seals up. If it doesn't, jiggle a little more. If it doesn't seal up after about three trys then it's just not going to work.

The water coming from the pee hole should NEVER be hot. It should be "luke warm" at most EXCEPT....
....and I tell you this as a precaution....
....if you are running the engine in a trashcan...
...and you hold your hand in the pee stream and then shut the engine off it can get VERY HOT AND SCALD YOU!!!

The reason is that, when the pump stops pushing water, the water that is already up inside the engine block falls back due to gravity. If you aren't ready to move your hand quickly you might be injured.

The HONDA BF15D and all of it's BFD stable mates are the best twin cylinder outboards available in my opinion. They are rugged, reliable and easy to maintain. They will last a guy a lifetime IF TAKEN CARE OF PROPERLY.

Another warning I will give though is about the carburetor. It has very small internal passages that will plug up if you use contaminated or old gasoline. If that happens they can be difficult to get cleaned out properly.

I highly recommend that you locate the carburetor drain screw and get in the habit of draining the carburetor float chamber any time that you won't be using the outboard for more than a couple of weeks or before storage.

Yes, it's a slight pain. You have to remove the hood and then use a "longish" 3/16" slot tipped screwdriver or you run the risk of boogering up the screw slot.

I keep a dedicated screwdriver that has the perfect fit and reach for doing that same chore to my BF20D.

Honda didn't manufacture those carbs. They contracted with Keihin for those carburetors and I don't know, but suspect, that the carburetors were produced in that manner in an effort to lower emissions.

If you feed them quality, fresh fuel and keep it drained you shouldn't have any carb problems though.

I would really be surprised that anyone, who is as meticulous as you seem to be, would end up not loving this sweet little outboard.

Good luck and happy boating!
 
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