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Honda BF15 4 stroke, need diagnosis help

N

NomarsFool

New member
I bought a used Honday 15 HP outboard. I think it's a 2000 or 2001 model. Before buying it, I had the guy run it for quite a while and it seemed to run just fine. Started up easy, ran fine, etc. The engine is very clean and it looks like it was well maintained.

I went to use it about 2 months later and ran into some problems. The engine will start just fine with the choke closed (pulled out), but even gradually pushing it in as it warms up results in the engine stalling out. I tried a number of different attempts at various approaches to slowly opening the choke, etc. They all result in the engine stalling out. If I let it run with the choke, it eventually stalls out as well.

The only way I could get it to stay running was to throw it into gear with the choke closed and throttle up, then I can open the choke value and it runs just fine. It runs this way continuously without issue, but then I noticed something else. The engine was purring along okay, but then when I throttled up. Nothing really happened. It didn't seem like the RPMs increased like they should, and I definitely didn't get much power. I would say it was putting out as much thrust as a 3.5 HP. Also, if I throttle down to "slow", it will stall out.

So, some of the things I checked:

1) Changed the gas
2) Checked the oil (looks clean and full). Oil pressure light is fine
3) Checked the gas valve (even ran it with the gas valve fully open)
4) Checked the throttle control - when you throttle up the throttle cable does in fact move inside the engine
5) Checked the fuel filter, and it looked pretty clean and I could blow through it easily

One curious thing, I took off the fuel filter and used the primer bulb to pump fuel through to make sure that all looked right. When I did this, the fuel that came out was cloudy (this is before the filter). I checked the gas in the can, and that's not cloudy. It somehow becomes cloudy between the can and the filter. I put the filter back on, and the gas coming out of the filter on the other side is not cloudy.

The cloudiness is not particulate (not black crud or anything). Describing it as milky would be too strong. It's sort of cloudy like apple cider is cloudy. My thought was air bubbles, but I let the gas sit for awhile and the cloudiness didn't go away. But, since the filter seems to remove the cloudiness, that makes me think it's not causing whatever the problem is.

So, where should I start? I'm very much a novice when it comes to engines. I'm fearful of getting into some major project, put it all back together, and then find that nothing is any better. So, what's the likely culprit here?
 
Well, it could end up being a bit of a "project" getting this sorted out. At least to you. If it were with me, it sounds as if a few perfunctory checks would get you the info you need to get it running properly. What I mean is that it doesn't sound all that serious but you don't sound very well prepared or equipped to properly troubleshoot the thing.

The place I would start is finding out for sure what that cloudiness issue is all about. I was thinking air too when I first read your post but you eliminated that. It also sounds like water but water usually settles out quickly and can easily be seen to separate to the bottom of a clear container. Just because the filter "appears" to remove whatever is in the gas, doesn't mean the quality of the fuel went "up" so to speak. And, if your filter IS having to remove contaminants like that then it won't be long before it is plugged. Remember that the gas is picked up from the BOTTOM of the can and if there is a bunch of junk down there or if the inside of the can is delaminating or rusting, then whatever is down there will be picked up and delivered to the engine. So, if it were me, I would try a completely different hose and can since I have many laying around. You might need to try and borrow something.

The next thing I would do, after sorting out the cloudy gas issue, is to remove and check or replace the spark plugs. Since I had never seen the engine before I would probably just replace them. But taking a look for anything out of the ordinary there is basic troubleshooting.

If I didn't see anything too terribly wrong with the plug's appearance, I would hook up a TIMING LIGHT to a 12 volt car battery and then to the upper plug wire and start the engine and see if the upper cylinder ignition is happening as it should. Then repeat with the lower cylinder. If you don't have a timing light, you could remove the upper wire from the plug while the engine is running and note that the rpm and "run quality" falls off. This will tell you the upper cylinder is firing properly. Then, repeat with the lower. If you do this, you need to use insulating pliers to keep from being shocked.

Once I had verified that ignition is occurring for both cylinders, I would probably check the valve adjustment and readjust as needed.

When I know that the valves are in adjustment, then, and only then, I would focus on the carburetor. Ultimately I think that is where your problem has settled but without eliminating some of the basic areas that problems could hide you could spend a lot of time working on the carb just to find it was running on one cylinder which these engines do very well sometimes.

So, see, it's turned into a project already just to read my reply. And, to answer your last sentence, the carburetor is, most likely, dirty. But, without addressing the other things, you might find yourself going around and around.

For instance; If it does turn out to be the carb, then the root cause may very well be the cloudy fuel. You don't want to clean the carb and then feed it more cloudy fuel.

I hope this doesn't discourage you but these are the steps I would take.

Good luck.
 
jgmo said:
So, if it were me, I would try a completely different hose and can since I have many laying around. You might need to try and borrow something. .
Click to expand...

If I get a new fuel line, is that connection pretty standard, or do I have to get a Honda gas line? I would think/hope they are standard, but you never know.

jgmo said:
The next thing I would do, after sorting out the cloudy gas issue, is to remove and check or replace the spark plugs. Since I had never seen the engine before I would probably just replace them. But taking a look for anything out of the ordinary there is basic troubleshooting..
Click to expand...

They give an NGK or DENSO spark plug number, and they seem priced the same (~$4). Any reason to buy one vs. the other?

jgmo said:
If I didn't see anything too terribly wrong with the plug's appearance, I would hook up a TIMING LIGHT to a 12 volt car battery and then to the upper plug wire and start the engine and see if the upper cylinder ignition is happening as it should. Then repeat with the lower cylinder. If you don't have a timing light, you could remove the upper wire from the plug while the engine is running and note that the rpm and "run quality" falls off. This will tell you the upper cylinder is firing properly. Then, repeat with the lower. If you do this, you need to use insulating pliers to keep from being shocked.

Once I had verified that ignition is occurring for both cylinders, I would probably check the valve adjustment and readjust as needed.

When I know that the valves are in adjustment, then, and only then, I would focus on the carburetor. I hope this doesn't discourage you but these are the steps I would take.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

So, I don't have a timing light. What's involved in removing the wire from the spark plug? This doesn't damage the engine in anyway? This might be a little difficult for me, since it doesn't really want to stay running that much anyway.
 
You can buy generic fuel line and then take/cut your engine connector off and use that. Some new fuel line is junk though so you need to stick with brand name stuff to be sure. Honda is good but if your engine is, in fact, older than '01 then you will have the older connector and the new Honda line comes with the new. I just read a post from hondadude that he recommends the Evinrude primer but it is pricey. He also stated that the new Honda fuel hose comes with the new style hose connector AND the new style engine side connector. That way you can upgrade. That is what I would do. Are you sure your can is OK though?

I used to think it was just me until I joined this forum but since then I have learned that almost everyone that is knowledgeable about Honda outboards goes with the NGK brand plugs.

Yeah, the timing light is the EASIEST way to verify ignition firing. That is IF you have one. The removing the spark plug technique to do a "cylinder cut out" test is a tried and true troubleshooting practice that yields accurate information without damage to the engine or ignition system. It is done in auto shops every day. You do it by first removing the spark plug boot from the plug and smearing a small amount of dielectric or "tune up" grease on the inside of the boot. This makes the boot easy to take off and put back on. After reinstalling the plug wire and starting the engine, you remove the wire by simply grasping the boot with pliers that have insulation on the handle so that the voltage spark doesn't try and travel through your body. If it did, it wouldn't hurt you unless you are a heart patient or infirm in some way. But, it will sure make you jump and flail and you could be injured doing that. Also, it just plain does not feel good. They sell special pliers for doing this but any pliers wrapped in plastic or even a DRY rag will work.

You do make a good point about the possibility that, with the engine barely running, it might not work. I would try it anyway and see what happens. If you can get the engine started and throttled up a bit with the choke on, as you describe, you should have enough time to reach in and pull the plug wire. If the engine dies immediately when you do that, it indicates that the cylinder was firing and that's what you wanted to know. You only have to do it twice in this case and, if you can get it done, that's invaluable info to work with. It's entirely up to you.
 
Okay, so I replaced the gas can, put clean fresh gas in it. I also blew out the lines to try and get them nice and clean and did the spark plug wire test.

With the engine running, if I remove the wire to the top sparkplug, the engine dies.

If I remove the wire to the bottom sparkplug, the engine keeps running.

So, what next?
 
NomarsFool said:
Okay, so I replaced the gas can, put clean fresh gas in it. I also blew out the lines to try and get them nice and clean and did the spark plug wire test.

With the engine running, if I remove the wire to the top sparkplug, the engine dies.

If I remove the wire to the bottom sparkplug, the engine keeps running.

So, what next?
Click to expand...

Actually, I was mistaken. I tried it a couple more times. If I remove the top wire, the engine slows, but keeps running. If I remove the bottom wire, the same thing happens.

I also tried to clean the carburetor as best I could, and there was gunk in there. What's next? Clean the carb some more? Anything else I should test?
 
Well, you proved that both cylinders are firing with those results. That's a good thing. You don't mention what happened with the "cloudiness" of the fuel issue. Hopefully that looks ok now.

If that's the case, your problem is most likely some deposits in the carb. You cannot get the carb clean from the outside or without removing it from the engine. It's hard enough for a novice to get one clean even with instruction. It's not hard to do at all but it just seems most guys don't take or follow directions very well and then end up taking it apart 4 or 5 times to get it right.

Having said that, the first option I offer someone trying to straighten one of these out is to just purchase a new carb and bolt it on. They are not all that expensive and will get you going quick. However, for about 1/4 of the money you can take it apart, clean and service it and get the same results. It all depends on your aptitude and attitude.

If you buy a new carb, you will have the old one for a "spare" and can take it apart and clean it at your leisure. If you decide to clean it yourself, you have to put up with me for a few days asking you do to a bunch of procedures and then asking you if you did them right.

But, maybe we can try something simple first. I need to make sure your carb looks like the one in the link directly below and not the one in the link under it. So, check that out and get back to me.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2001/BF15A1 LAS /CARBURETOR/parts.html

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...03/BF15D3 LHA /CARBURETOR (MANUAL)/parts.html
 
jgmo said:
Well, you proved that both cylinders are firing with those results. That's a good thing. You don't mention what happened with the "cloudiness" of the fuel issue. Hopefully that looks ok now.

If that's the case, your problem is most likely some deposits in the carb. You cannot get the carb clean from the outside or without removing it from the engine. It's hard enough for a novice to get one clean even with instruction. It's not hard to do at all but it just seems most guys don't take or follow directions very well and then end up taking it apart 4 or 5 times to get it right.

Having said that, the first option I offer someone trying to straighten one of these out is to just purchase a new carb and bolt it on. They are not all that expensive and will get you going quick. However, for about 1/4 of the money you can take it apart, clean and service it and get the same results. It all depends on your aptitude and attitude.

If you buy a new carb, you will have the old one for a "spare" and can take it apart and clean it at your leisure. If you decide to clean it yourself, you have to put up with me for a few days asking you do to a bunch of procedures and then asking you if you did them right.

But, maybe we can try something simple first. I need to make sure your carb looks like the one in the link directly below and not the one in the link under it. So, check that out and get back to me.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2001/BF15A1 LAS /CARBURETOR/parts.html

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...03/BF15D3 LHA /CARBURETOR (MANUAL)/parts.html
Click to expand...

First off, thank you so much for your help. It is such a relief to get advice from someone who really knows what they are talking about!

The carb looks like the first one. I believe the engine is a 2000 or 2001.

When I tried to clean it, I was able to get a good part of it clean (I hoped that maybe that would do the trick - no luck). Unfortunately, I couldn't get the #8 screw plug out, which you need to do to get access to the #11/12 main jets. The screw is brass, and it just seems to be frozen in there - and you brass is difficult to force out. I tried penetrating oil, but no luck. It doesn't seem like heating it would be a good idea unless I want a fire/explosion. My next thought was to use one of those screw extractors where you drill into it and use a reverse thread screw to get it out. I'm always a little hesitant about that step.

I also couldn't get out #5, but it didn't look like it was in an area that would have a lot of gunk - so I didn't work on that one so much.
 
So, you have had the float chamber off? Did you remove the carb to work on it or did you do that with it still on the engine? That brass plug usually comes off easily with a hand impact driver but, of course, you wouldn't be able to use one of those unless the carb is off of the engine. If you don't have an impact driver and IF you haven't "boogered" up the slot too bad, striking the plug with a hammer a couple of good whacks usually frees it up enough to use a good size screwdriver that fits the slot well to turn it out. But, before we go there, I was actually interested in the idle mixture screw, #5.

You say you couldn't get it out? Or, you couldn't get it to turn? It would be HIGHLY unusual for it to be seized but they can be a hassle to get out. They usually don't just turn out on their own since the little oring that is on them acts as a sort of "locking collar". You can turn and turn and the screw doesn't come out. You just need to use a small dental pick or even a bent paper clip to get up under the head of the screw and sort of pull on it as you turn to overcome the resistance of the oring.

And, speaking of oring, I always advise folks to go ahead and have a new set of gaskets and seals on hand before messing with these. Those orings on the idle mix screw and on the "jet set" are absolutely critical to the performance of the carb. If they are damaged or distorted in any way, they will not seal properly and all your work will be in vane.

I suggest that you have #1 gasket set, #11 jet set and both #14. Whether you get them or not is up to you.

I'd would really like to get that idle screw out and have you clean that passage if the carb is still on the engine. If the carb is off, then we just need to get it completely apart and clean it up properly. Let me know.
 
I had the carb off the engine, but I put it back on to see if it would run. So, right now, it is all put back together. So, what should be the first step now?
 
First, answer this; what happened with the gas cloudiness?

I'm pretty sure that you should just take the carb back off and clean it but, if you want to, you could remove the idle mix screw in the manner I described above. If it has one of those little chromed plastic idle limit caps on it, you need to get that off. They are glued on to the head of the idle screw and if you hold a soldering iron tip to the cap while holding it with needle nose pliers and pulling, they come right off.

With the limit cap off, you can unscrew it about 20 time more than you think you need to and this makes sure that the threads are disengaged. Then you find a tool that you can get down under the head and apply force to pry it out of the hole while continuing to turn the screw. If you hold your mouth just right, it will come:)

When the screw and spring are out, flush out that passage with WD-40. You would use the plastic straw that comes with the can. Fuel mixed with air comes down that passage and out to the carb idle drilling in the carb throat. If you put a little bend in the tip of the straw and then stick it in the idle adjust screw hole and blast away while rotating the tip around, you stand a good chance of cleaning out anything in the supply and delivery passage for that circuit.

Then locate a small tube that comes out of the top of the carb pointing sideways and spray the heck out of that. Close to the area where that tube is inserted in the carb body will be a small hole. Spray in there liberally too.

After you do that, do it again with some spray carb cleaner. Then put the idle mix screw, oring and spring back in and screw it down gently until it stops. Back it out 2 turns then prime the carb and start her up and see if there is any improvement. If not, then it's time for the "Full Monty".

This is where you would want to go ahead and order the parts I listed if you are going to. While they are on their way, we can prep the carb.
 
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jgmo said:
First, answer this; what happened with the gas cloudiness?
Click to expand...

I don't know yet. When I examined the gas tank, I saw that there was lots of black, particulate crud in there. While that wouldn't explain the cloudiness, since the cloudiness isn't black, and the gas in the tank isn't cloudy, I figured I needed to change the tank anyway - so I bought a new one. I haven't tested the fuel coming out of the line with the new tank. I skipped to the carb as it seemed that was the most likely culprit of the issue, but I'll go back and test that.
 
jgmo said:
That brass plug usually comes off easily with a hand impact driver but, of course, you wouldn't be able to use one of those unless the carb is off of the engine. If you don't have an impact driver and IF you haven't "boogered" up the slot too bad, striking the plug with a hammer a couple of good whacks usually frees it up enough to use a good size screwdriver that fits the slot well to turn it out.
Click to expand...
I gave it the whack many times. And I used a big screw driver as the slot is large, close to half inch across. I don't have an impact driver. I suppose a hammer drill with
a screw driver head would do. But, it was the brass that was failing when I used the big screw driver. I have used a chisel as an impact driver on the side
of a slot, but it usually ruins the screw, so I was figuring I needed to order a new screw.
 
Well, you COULD apply some heat to the plug if the carb is off and drained of fuel. But, I have to say, I've never had to do that. If you booger up the slot in the plug, you can still punt. Usually the plug "sets" up a bit so that there is enough sticking out that you can take a hacksaw or a Dremel wheel and cut a new slot perpendicular to the old one. This gives you one more opportunity to take it out conventionally. Otherwise, yes, you would need to use an E-Z Out screw extractor.
 
jgmo said:
Well, you COULD apply some heat to the plug if the carb is off and drained of fuel. But, I have to say, I've never had to do that. If you booger up the slot in the plug, you can still punt. Usually the plug "sets" up a bit so that there is enough sticking out that you can take a hacksaw or a Dremel wheel and cut a new slot perpendicular to the old one. This gives you one more opportunity to take it out conventionally. Otherwise, yes, you would need to use an E-Z Out screw extractor.
Click to expand...

Okay, I was able to get it out. I cut the slot a little deeper and was able to get it out of there. The screw is ruined, but I ordered another one, along with the gaskets and jet set you recommended. I was also able to get th idle screw out. The limit thingy didn't come off with a soldering iron, so I just cut it off with a Dremel so I could turn it out. Do I need that part on there when I put it back together? Do I need to get a new screw?

Both areas were a little dirty. Not enough so that I would say "Aha! Problem solved!", but we'll see.

So, the carb is apart and the parts are ordered. I did give everything a preliminary cleaning. Anything I should specifically do to get it absolutely perfect before I put it back together and test it?

Also, one other "mystery" to throw in the mix. On th back of the motor, about middle of the way down, there is port. It almost looks like an exhaust port - except the exhaust vents below the water, so that's not it. Coming out of that port, the engine has what looks like smoke stains. I noticed while the engine was running a few drops of water coming out of there. I'm not talking about the water pump. That spits out a steady stream of water just fine. This is more on the shaft of the engine. I didn't see it labelled as anyhing in the manual.
 
First off, don't worry about that port. It is an exhaust vent and water dribble from there is normal.

Ok, here we go....

Have you taken the "jet set" out? If not, here's how: Look in the throat of the carb past the choke plate. You will see that the jet comes up from the bottom and inserts into the top of the barrel. Using a small, pocket type screwdriver, use the tip to get up under the little "ledge" that is part of the top of the jet and sort of twist and pry gently until it pops out of the hole. If you already grabbed it with pliers and yanked it out that's fine but don't treat the new one that way.

Find a way to prop open the throttle plate and choke plate at each end of the carb "throat" or barrel so that you can see from front to back. Holding the carb main body right side up, locate the tiny orifices that are drilled into the top of the throat at the engine end. The one that is sort of by itself and is closest to the engine is the idle passage. That's where the gas for keeping it idling comes out.

Take your cleaner straw or WD straw and carefully place the tip to cover that little hole. Use your finger to cover the hole where the idle mix screw (#5) goes and seal that off. Spray the crap out of that little hole and try to find the place that the spray comes out. Some should gush out of the hole where the slow jet set was inserted. Then, still holding the idle screw hole sealed, bring the straw around and stick it up into the hole that the jet set occupied and spray the crap out of that. You should see the cleaner or WD coming out of ALL of the tiny holes at the top of the carb throat. Then, find a way to plug the jet set hole and uncover the idle screw hole. Spray again in the idle passage drilling and then spray through the idle screw hole to get cleaner to come out of the drilling. This is a sort of flush, backflush sort of procedure that makes sure that you get plenty of cleaner to push junk out first one way and then the other.

Remember the tube and hole I asked you to spray a few posts ago? Go back and, holding the carb body upside down so that you can see into the top of the chamber, put the straw in that crosswise tube and give it a shot. You should see spray coming out of a tiny little passage inside the chamber dome. Same thing with the hole that is located near the tube. Spray in that hole and watch for cleaner to come out of another tiny hole inside the top of the carb body. These are your air vents and they need to be open. If no spray comes out, place the straw tip over the tiny holes and flush. Do this, back and forth, until you get some flow.

Looking at the choke plate end again, find the two holes that are not mounting bolt holes. Take the straw out of the cleaner nozzle and blast away into those two holes. Note where the fluid exits and then use the straw to spray through the passages where you saw it come out.

Go back and use the straw to place it over each of the tiny holes in the top of the carb throat and blast each one liberally while observing where the fluid is coming out. Use the straw to "backflush" those openings so that fluid comes out of the tiny holes. Much of your spraying should be concentrated into the drilling where the jet set inserts into the top of the carb throat. That's part of the main passage. The spray will tend to have two places to come out of the carb. Any time that you can plug off one exit so that the pressure and cleaning action of the spray get concentrated through the alternate passage, then the cleaner you will get that passage.

It's just a tedious and messy operation, going back and forth, back and forth, with the cleaner spray to pressure out all the gunk. The more attention you pay to getting cleaner through all the passages and orifices, the better chance you stand of having the engine fire off and purr like it should. It is important to know that I sometimes use up to three cans of cleaner to get one of these little carbs cleaned up good.

Have at it and good luck.
 
Not sure what you mean. Keep in mind, this is not a contest to see how much I can write and how little you do. How about a little feedback? Did you complete all the cleaning? Are you going back together? Was all that I DID write understandable and useful? C'mon! Throw me a bone at least! Constructive criticism works too. I can take it!

If you are referring to the idle mixture screw, the spec is 1 5/8 turns out from closed to get the engine started and then, yes, trial and error.
 
jgmo said:
If you are referring to the idle mixture screw, the spec is 1 5/8 turns out from closed to get the engine started and then, yes, trial and error.
Click to expand...

Yes, thanks. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to spend as much time on it lately - also been waiting for the parts to arrive (and then realized I ordered the wrong screw!)
 
It's been slow going (cold outside to work in the garage). Unfortunately, when all the parts arrived I realized that some of them didn't match up. Seems like they switched the design a bit.

How do I tell exactly what year the engine is? It seems to have two serial numbers:

Frame: BAAL – 1401235
Engine: BAAE – 1301558

Can you tell from that what year it is?
 
So, it's been an incredibly long project. Not because of the actual time involved, just the time that elapsed being distracted by other things. But, I finally got everything put back together and out on the water. AWESOME! The engine did fantastic. Purred right along, pushed the boat up on a plane and really flew. It met all my expectations. Thanks so much for all your help!
 
That is great news NomarsFool! Doesn't matter how long it takes as long as you stick with it and get your outboard UP! You DID and that is why we are all here.

Now, just remember, that if you always use FRESH, CLEAN fuel and drain that carb every time you put her up for a few days, you won't be "revisiting" this little ritual anytime soon.

Thanks for stickin' it out, gettin' it done and letting us know about your success!
 
jgmo said:
That is great news NomarsFool! Doesn't matter how long it takes as long as you stick with it and get your outboard UP! You DID and that is why we are all here.

Now, just remember, that if you always use FRESH, CLEAN fuel and drain that carb every time you put her up for a few days, you won't be "revisiting" this little ritual anytime soon.

Thanks for stickin' it out, gettin' it done and letting us know about your success!
Click to expand...


I'm not sure how this works, but i came across this thread and wanted to thank a thousand time the person who stuck with this guy and his problem to get the engine running again. This is kind of excellence is what makes the internet shine!
YOU ROCK!!!
 
Well, you figured out the "works" just fine, Joan B! It says you're a new member but your "handle" rings a bell. Maybe it's just my feeble memory. Anyway, in case no one's said it before, I will say it now;
Welcome aboard the forum Joan B!
And thanks for the encouraging words.
 
jgmo said:
First off, don't worry about that port. It is an exhaust vent and water dribble from there is normal.

Ok, here we go....

Have you taken the "jet set" out? If not, here's how: Look in the throat of the carb past the choke plate. You will see that the jet comes up from the bottom and inserts into the top of the barrel. Using a small, pocket type screwdriver, use the tip to get up under the little "ledge" that is part of the top of the jet and sort of twist and pry gently until it pops out of the hole. If you already grabbed it with pliers and yanked it out that's fine but don't treat the new one that way.

Find a way to prop open the throttle plate and choke plate at each end of the carb "throat" or barrel so that you can see from front to back. Holding the carb main body right side up, locate the tiny orifices that are drilled into the top of the throat at the engine end. The one that is sort of by itself and is closest to the engine is the idle passage. That's where the gas for keeping it idling comes out.

Take your cleaner straw or WD straw and carefully place the tip to cover that little hole. Use your finger to cover the hole where the idle mix screw (#5) goes and seal that off. Spray the crap out of that little hole and try to find the place that the spray comes out. Some should gush out of the hole where the slow jet set was inserted. Then, still holding the idle screw hole sealed, bring the straw around and stick it up into the hole that the jet set occupied and spray the crap out of that. You should see the cleaner or WD coming out of ALL of the tiny holes at the top of the carb throat. Then, find a way to plug the jet set hole and uncover the idle screw hole. Spray again in the idle passage drilling and then spray through the idle screw hole to get cleaner to come out of the drilling. This is a sort of flush, backflush sort of procedure that makes sure that you get plenty of cleaner to push junk out first one way and then the other.

Remember the tube and hole I asked you to spray a few posts ago? Go back and, holding the carb body upside down so that you can see into the top of the chamber, put the straw in that crosswise tube and give it a shot. You should see spray coming out of a tiny little passage inside the chamber dome. Same thing with the hole that is located near the tube. Spray in that hole and watch for cleaner to come out of another tiny hole inside the top of the carb body. These are your air vents and they need to be open. If no spray comes out, place the straw tip over the tiny holes and flush. Do this, back and forth, until you get some flow.

Looking at the choke plate end again, find the two holes that are not mounting bolt holes. Take the straw out of the cleaner nozzle and blast away into those two holes. Note where the fluid exits and then use the straw to spray through the passages where you saw it come out.

Go back and use the straw to place it over each of the tiny holes in the top of the carb throat and blast each one liberally while observing where the fluid is coming out. Use the straw to "backflush" those openings so that fluid comes out of the tiny holes. Much of your spraying should be concentrated into the drilling where the jet set inserts into the top of the carb throat. That's part of the main passage. The spray will tend to have two places to come out of the carb. Any time that you can plug off one exit so that the pressure and cleaning action of the spray get concentrated through the alternate passage, then the cleaner you will get that passage.

It's just a tedious and messy operation, going back and forth, back and forth, with the cleaner spray to pressure out all the gunk. The more attention you pay to getting cleaner through all the passages and orifices, the better chance you stand of having the engine fire off and purr like it should. It is important to know that I sometimes use up to three cans of cleaner to get one of these little carbs cleaned up good.

Have at it and good luck.
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just registerd to say, thank you for your support.
did exactly as you wrote and problem fixed.
thanks again.
 
Thank YOU Ukuka!
It made my day to hear that someone else got their Honda going after reading my ramblings!
Definitely a warm and fuzzy feelin'!!
 
I cant believe i read all those posts,then realixed it was from 2 years ago,I'm probably not the only one, It sometimes pays to pay attention to the details!!NomarsFool is that honday still running
 
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