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Engine Idling Rough and Alarm Going Off on 2009 BF225

J

JohnHalk

New member
Hey guys,

Hoping one of the Honda techs can help me with an issue I'm having with my 2009 Honda BF225. Near the end of last season, my engine would develop an alarm at start-up, but after shutting down once or twice, it would go away (happened, I believe 2 times). Brought it up to my dealer and he attributed to cold-starting (we're talking early morning in late November, early December in NY). He winterized the boat in December and in March I brought to another Honda dealer (long story) closer to my house for paint and launching. He attempted to launch it 10 days ago and got an alarm at low RPM (but not when the boat was running). He felt the engine was running hot and called me to tell me my water pump needed to be changed (my engine has 179 carefully maintained hours - but my dock is located in a shallow, muddy area). He changed it, bay tested it and dropped it back in reporting to me that it ran perfect. I went to the boat Sunday (yesterday) and man, it ran like crap. It started fine, ran fine for 2 minutes and then violently shook at 630 RPM before the alarm would go off. I shut down, restarted and the same thing would happen - it would run fine for 2 minutes, then start violently shaking and the alarm would go off. I didn't bother taking the boat out not wanting to make a bad situation worse. I'm calling mechanic today (but I know he's away for a few days with a family issue) - any clues what could be causing it? Racor is new with like 20 minutes run time. Could an O2 sensor be the culprit? Faulty water pump installation? I'm 100 miles from boat so its not so easy to trouble shoot.

Thank you all in advance.

John
 
What was the alarm - continuous, long beeps, or short beeps? When alarm went off did you look at your key switch lights and see any on besides the green oil pressure light?

I'm not a Honda Tech, so maybe Hondadude or Jimmy will jump in here.

Simple things first. Overall, what you describe sounds like a fuel feed problem. The two minute run time is about what it takes to drain fuel from the VST at idle, and then it is not refilling sufficiently. Start the engine with the cover off and observe whether the low pressure fuel filter and the onboard fuel-water separator stay full or not. If not staying full of fuel, you have a fuel feed problem somewhere between your fuel tank pick up and the onboard separator. In that case, the first thing to do is open the fuel filler cap on your tank and see if that fixes the problem. If so, you have a clogged breather tube on your fuel tank. Next thing to do is to check your pump-up bulb to see if it is partially collapsing while engine is running. If so, you have a clogged pick up tube in your fuel tank. If you eliminate those two, then run a clear plastic line from your pump-up bulb straight to the onboard sepaerator, bypassing the Racor. Run engine and look for air bubbles. If so, find the source. If not, connect the clear plastic hose from the output line from the Racor to the onboard separator and look for air bubbles. If so, you have a loose connection on the Racor, or the filter is not seated correctly.

If the onboard sepaerator and the LP filter are staying full of fuel, then you have a blockage or air incursion between your LP filter and the HP filter. First, check all fuel line connections between the LP filter and the HP filter. Remove, inspect, and clean or replace the HP filter. Remove inspect, and clean the VST. There is a float and needle valve in there, make sure that is working properly and is not clogged.

If all that fails to fix the problem, then you will need to run some diagnostics using the SCS service connector.
 
Chawk_man, thanks for the fast reply.

Alarm would ring in continuous, long beeps. If its fuel-related, would the problem dissapear when throttle was applied? I remember in the late-fall when the alarm first went on, it would only occur at start-up. Once I ran the engine, the problem would disappear. The pee stream seemed weaker than usual too.....
 
Sounds like you are saying long intermittent beeps, not continuous. There is a chart I created for diagnosing problems based on the alarm type and the lights on the key switch, but this site will not allow me to send the chart because of size. Send an e-mail to [email protected] and I will send it to you. Use the chart and the lights on your key switch to isolate the problem.
 
Its at mechanics now - they will let me know this weekend. Keeping my fingers crossed that its the O2 sensor - it would be covered by warranty. It sucks that I had to spend 1000 on a waterpump though.....
 
they are a Honda dealer so presumably they are using a honda computer program. Then again, they only became a Honda Dealer within the past 3 months so I'm a little concerned about their expertise on Hondas.
 
really sounds like what mine did with bad o2 sensor, Be real carefull when backing down coming off plane to tilt motors up and when loading on trailer to till motors as high as you can other wise motors will ingest water.. Ever since I have became aware of doing these simple procedures no more o2 sensor problems been years... Looking forward to what it was but have owned my twin 2002 honda 225 for 9 years and seen o2 issue 3 times till I got smart... Surprised still seeing issues when 02 sensors on a 2009. My motors have 1350 hrs now...
 
If you connect the SCS test connector (or shunt the lime green/white wire to the black wire on the red service connector plug) a faulty HO2 sensor will send off one blink on the MIL light, which will repeat about every 5 seconds (according to the shop manual.)

In my opinion, the two-minute run time before going south sounds more like a fuel feed problem than an HO2 sensor problem. But I've never had an HO2 sensor fail on my 2007 BF225, so could be wrong.
 
they have updated exhaust manifolds for the o2 sensor
it sits up higher in the manifold

water intrusion was ruining them
 
The 2009 BF 225 had the revised exhaust pipes installed when they were manufactured. The faulty original pipes were in use up to SN BAGJ 1500324 and SN BAHJ 1500022, which was around the middle or end of 2006. Since they redesigned and installed the new exhaust pipes, there have been very few problems with the HO2 sensors, except when the engine is mounted too low or the operator does not hold the key switch in the start position until the engine actually starts.
 
Hey all - mechanic just called - Honda service rep actually came and helped them diagnose the problem.....it is the O2 sensor. Honda rep stated what everyone here did, that it may be sitting too low on its bracket and may benefit from being raised a notch or two. He advised my dealer to check the height when they launch the boat - if the exhaust is less than 6 inches, the engine should be raised. Apparently, they have to replace the entire ECM as well since they have a new style O2 sensor that won't work with my existing ECM. I was also getting a bunch of low oil level codes and they think someone messed with the sensors in the engine since the engine oil was very recently changed. Part should be here next Tuesday and I'm hoping to back in business shortly thereafter.

Thanks for all the help here guys. Much appreciated!

John
 
I forgot to mention - I did a LOT of research on my engine during the 4 months between signing the contract on my boat in January 2009 and launching it in April 2009 and the one problem I read about was the water intrusion - I had taken great steps to make sure I did none of the things that cause this - I don't ever back-down (I don't fish offshore or "chase" fish); I don't ever turn engine off when coming off plane; I come off plane as smooth as possible, etc., etc.

I'm really hoping its just an engine height thing....
 
Glad you got the problem under control. I'm still surprised it was an HO2 sensor. Your dealer is correct. The Honda SB #56 states that the exhaust ports must be at least 5.9" above the water line. Of course, 6" is slightly better.
 
Well - drove the boat today for the first time since problem got fixed. Boat started great, idled fine as I ran out to my first fishing spot. After about 1 hour of starting and moving a few times (had not traveled far), engine alarm went off (one long ring). Shut down, re-started and she ran fine for 2 minutes and then, same thing. This happened three more times - 1 long alarm and I could see no lights.

I then ran the boat for a good 30 minutes with no alarms. Continued fishing for another few hours after the long run with short starts and stops with no other alarm issues. Chawk-man - of course, I have your chart at work and I'm on vacation til Wednesday.

When I got back to the dock and hooked up the hose, I noticed my pee stream was like a rocket - almost faster than the boat at idle. Additionally, there was no water around the prop like there was before my warranty work/water pump change. Is that normal? I keep boat docked and use the hose attachment without engine running to flush boat.

Ugghhhh....I'm feeling very frustrated right now. I'm hoping the fact that the boat ran fine the last few hours I was out today means the earlier alarms were just an anomoly. Will take it out a few more times while on vacation. I'll call the mechanic if its still doing it. I am curious about the fresh water flush though - never remember flushing previous two years where there wasn't fresh water coming out of the prop.
 
Flushing water should be coming out around the prop and out the relief holes above the prop. If it is not, something is very wrong. Did your overheat light ever come on when buzzer sounded?
 
No it did not. It just happened again - I went started the boat and the alarm went off - one long ring and no lights. Shut off and restarted and it didn't happen again. Calling mechanic first thing in the morning. Thanks again all!
 
OK - last update - Honda rep and my mechanic ran boat again today for 40 minutes and other than an initial alarm at start-up (low oil pressure - alarm ran for 5 seconds then stopped), the boat ran fine. There were no issues when flushed either (it flushed correctly). They are at a loss why I was having the issues I had last week but think I may have had my stats stuck or sucked up some debris. I'm keeping my fingers crossed they are correct. Taking the boat out tomorrow.....we'll see!

Thanks again all!
 
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