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Dead in the water !!

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percy

Member
Hi, I have a Honda BF130 outboard which has so far proved mostly relaiable however the other day I took a trip fishing 10 miles off-shore to a wreck, then to another ...no fish but hey ho....then on the way back the engine alarm went off and the unit stopped.
There was smoke from the top of the engine eminating from under the belt and pulley cover and a smell of burnt or burning wiring.
I assumed that it was the alternator as it is the only electrical item that I could see that could have caused the smoke in the location and no sign of burnt cable anywhere at all. I have got the alternator serviced and so far the engine still refuses to start.
There is no spark at the plugs but the fuel is going on.
I have replaced the ECU with another known good one to see if that was the cause and it is not.
Also when we attached some LED's to the outlet instead of a fault code the lights simply stayed on.
If we undid all the sensors we could find we then got a code of 6 shorts flashes followed by 2 long then 4 short.
What could the problem be...could the alternator have blown the coils or is the alternator a red herring and the casue actually something else entirely?

Help

Gavin
 
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I am not sure what you mean by attaching some LED's to the outlet. What outlet? What lights stay on? The PGM light? (Check engine light?)

Did they find any trouble with the alternator?

What does the alternator belt look like? Maybe it was the belt that was slipping and burning. They need to be very tight. 292-340 lft for a used one.

You can check for burnt out coils by testing their resistance. If there is an open circuit, they are burnt out.

Do not take offense, but did you check your connection at the safety landyard. If you pulled it or it got knocked off during the smoking condition, it might still be on the deck.

Make sure you double check your 30a fuse.

Check for 12v (with the key on) at the yellow/black lead on the fuel injectors. It is the same lead that is going to the injectors. If no 12v, then it could be an open circuit somewhere back to the main relay or the main relay itself.

Check your battery connections and be sure that they are clean and very tight (with a wrench tight). Also, make sure that the battery is fully charged and it good shape.

Check the little wire on the lower side of the motor that is connected between the lower part of the midsection and the mount bracket. It should be on the port side of the motor. Is it burnt up? Or maybe even burnt apart? If it is burnt, it could be the sign of a grounding problem.

There is a wiring diagram in the back of your owner's manual. If you do not have one, you can download one for free from Honda http://marine.honda.com/Owners/Manuals/models/BF130

Mike
 
Cheers Mike, I will check everything mentioned and come back to you. The LEDs were fitted to the coupling that would normally supply the MIL light which I do not have. It is via this and the SCS connector that we have been able to establish the fault codes.
The engine still cranks but will not fire, I cannot tell whether they found a problem with the alternator but it has been serviced so hopefully should be ok now. I may make some further enquiries about it. Battery leads are ok and both batteries are full. All fuses are fine.
I will check the coils and the small wire you mentioned and go from there.

Gavin
 
Hi Mike, I have done as asked :

1. I have 11.36V at the yellow/black leads on the fuel injectors.
2. All fuses are ok.

However I did a resistance check on the coils and found that on the Primary side I had .001 and 0.9 on the meter using the 2k scale. (I am not an electrician but was unable to get a figure close to that specified in the service manual) but there was NO resistance on the Secondary side at all and no continuity.

This would suggest that the coils are burnt out.

I notice that there is a wire (yellow and white, balck or blue i can't remember?) from the alternator that runs directly to the coils. When the alternator went pop could it have burnt the coils out through this wire ?..

Gavin
 
When you measure the resistance of the primary, be sure at one end of what you are measuring is not connected to anything else. If it is attached on both ends you are measuring the combined resistances.

Your secondary measurement should be from the spark plug connectors #1 and #4. They make a complete circuit. And spark plug connectors #2 and #3. See if you get continuity that way.

To answer your question, it is possible that the alternator sent a spike down that lead. That is the same lead that you checked for voltage at the injector. The 12v is actually originating from the main relay, which powers up the ECM, injectors, coils, etc.

When you turn the key on, does the fuel pump come on for two seconds then turn off?

Since we really do not know if you have spark or not or if you have fuel pressure, first check the spark.

The easiest way would be to put a timing light on the spark plug wires while cranking. Be sure the wires are connected to the spark plugs and the plugs are in the engine.

Let me know what you find on spark and the fuel pump running.

Mike
 
There is not spark, this was established early on by putting a plug on the lead and holding it next to and on the block...I also did not get a bolt !!!. The fuel pump does wind up as expected when I turn the key. The coils here are really expensive at £150 each !! so I am still conducting all your ideas before committing myself to their purchase. My mate is an electrical engineer so he is going to check my resistance readings on the coils for me. I will come back to you with the results.
 
Hi Percy,
Make sure you follow Mike's advice about using a timing light to check for spark. He's saying that for a good reason. He knows that the method you describe that you used to check for spark is not a very reliable way to do it on these engines. Using the old "grounded plug" against the block or "waiting to get shocked" method can fool you into thinking you have no spark when, in fact, you may have plenty.


Inductive timing lights are really cheap here in the USA but if you don't have access to one then, at the least, fashion a jumper wire with extra large alligator clips on the ends. Grip the threaded portion of the spark plug with one end and a known good engine ground, such as the head of the bolt that grounds the ignition coil wires, with the other. Do this at night or in a darkened garage or under a tarp to visually verify spark.

Good luck.
 
If your mate is going to check resistances, also check the resistances on the to pulser coils. They are located on the top of the engine near the alternator. The connector for them, luckily, sits right on top of the ECM. I think it is a round connector. Resistance between gray/white and brown/red leads should be 970 - 1170 ohm. Likewise, the resistance between the orange and the brown/blue is also 970 - 1170 ohms.

The pulsers tell the ECM when to fire the spark plugs.

Mike
 
Hiya, I did check the pulsers and they seem ok. My friends confirmed my own findings that the secondary side of both coil packs is duff.....ouch.
I also confirmed that the emergency switch was working properly so I am left with nothing to do but shell out for the coils and hopefully all will be well.
I will keep you updated with my progress.

Gavin
 
Well I forked out for some new coils and there is still no change....ouch. Is there a test, apart from doing the resistance check which I have done, to test the Pulser units to ensure that they are sending a signal to stimulate a spark ?
 
I am not sure is there is a voltage test other than the resistance. Should be between 970 - 1170 ohms. Also check the resistance to ground. It should be an open circuit.

Never had to check them.. Most likely, they put out a very small voltage (most other pulsars do). I am thinking around .5v....maybe a litttle less....maybe a little more.

You will probably need a mechanical voltmeter to see the short duration of the voltage. A peak reading voltmeter would be best. Digital meters are generally slower at reading. You might get lucky and get something if you let the flywheel spin long enough to have a constant voltage. It will be an AC voltage.

Maybe someone else may have more specific info.

Mike
 
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Thanks for that I will check. In the meantime ,despite the fact that the engine cranked and the fuel pump went on, I decided to check the Main Relay ( I am working my way through the engine as each broken item is identified and replaced....the alternator appears to have taken the whole team with it when it failed). The Main Relay failed the test and smoke started issuing from it. !!!! So a new one is on order and I am keeping my fingers crossed that this is the last broken item that needs replacing.
I will keep you updated.

Gavin
 
I hope it works. One of the tests that you did in checking voltage to the voltage at the fuel injectors and fuses, pointed me away from the main power relay. However, you did not test every option, so you may be on the right track. It was just, if you did not get voltage at the injectors, then it would have pointed more surely to the relay.

Keep us posted.

Mike
 
Well it turned out to be the relay after all. I did not consider it myself to start with as the fuel pump was starting and the engine cranked over however it was clearly not sending any juice to the ECU.
I am satisfied that the Alternator did blow up to start with and it seemed that this must have damaged the relay as well as a coil pack...ouch.
Its up a running now so all's well, 15 miles out this weekend and bream for tea.

Thanks for your help

Gavin
 
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