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BF9.9 won't stay running.

M

mymotor

New member
I have a 1987 9.9 that will not stay running. Had the carb and fuel pump rebuild at a marina only to have them tell me that i needed a cdi because i had no spark. I wiggled the cdi around while pulling and got spark to come back. For me that was strike 3 at the marina, if i can find that in less than 1 min so could they. Problem is that i had the work done about 2 years ago and just put the motor in the garage and never did get it running. Need help. Spark it intermittent and the not wanting to stay running may be caused by that or fuel. hard to say at this point. Anyone around cincinnati work on these honda's? Need someone that knows what they are doing.
 
Run a compression test first to eliminate step one in the troubleshooting process,CDI electronics.com will have troubleshooting tips online. Does engine have the same fuel in it from 2 years ago, was tank to carb flushed this year?
 
Hondadude (Mike) is in the Cincinnati area. Send him a private message via this forum. He has helped out many, many Honda owners and really knows his stuff.
 
The best maintenance is running the engine regularly. It is not any mechanics fault if you do not properly maintain your engine. Start from the beginning like said check engine compression three times engine cold. Check spark with a open air spark gap tester just looking at the plugs tells you nothing. It must jump a gap of at least 7/16 inch with a brite blue snap. Take all the connectors apart and clean with electrical cleaner and put back together with dielectric grease. Sand all grounds metal to metal. Empty your fuel tank in a five gallon bucket and see if water is in the bottom of the bucket?
 
These little magneto ignition systems don't make the same intensity spark that you would expect from an automotive type, battery powered, saturated coil discharge system.

"Good" spark on these is faint and hard to see when pulling the engine over with the rope.
Check for spark in a very darkened garage, at night or with your head and outboard covered with a blanket.

If you see spark doing that, she should fire.....if it has compression and is getting combustible quality fuel.

It's not for everybody (should be though) but I use propane, fed directly into the carburetor throat, to artificially add fuel if I suspect a delivery issue. Works on all gasoline engines.....I think. I haven't tried it on GDI (gas direct injected) engines yet.

Chawk_man is right. Mike (hondadude) is the best and no B.S. Anyone lucky enough to have him on the case will get results.

Good luck.
 
Last edited:
chawk_man said:
Hondadude (Mike) is in the Cincinnati area. Send him a private message via this forum. He has helped out many, many Honda owners and really knows his stuff.
Click to expand...

I tried to send him a PM and he does not have his PM's turned on. Hopefully he will see the post.
 
kimcrwbr1 said:
The best maintenance is running the engine regularly. It is not any mechanics fault if you do not properly maintain your engine. Start from the beginning like said check engine compression three times engine cold. Check spark with a open air spark gap tester just looking at the plugs tells you nothing. It must jump a gap of at least 7/16 inch with a brite blue snap. Take all the connectors apart and clean with electrical cleaner and put back together with dielectric grease. Sand all grounds metal to metal. Empty your fuel tank in a five gallon bucket and see if water is in the bottom of the bucket?
Click to expand...

My compression is good. My motor was meticulously maintained. Took to mechanic because it was not running properly when brought out in the spring (2015). It was taken to the same mechanic the fall before to be winterized and fogged. Which is was running perfectly then. Up until 2 weeks ago the engine had zero gas run through it. They never put anything in it after the carb and fuel pump rebuild because they said it had no spark. The gas going through it now is fresh. I only run non ethanol in all of my things (except cars). There was not water in it when i just drained it. I will have to get an open air spark gap tester as i have always just used the, if you can see it method. I did look at spark last night in the dark. I can make it come on and off by moving the CDI box around, like the connections at the cdi are loose, but i know they are not.

So truthfully i don't know that it is not cutting off the spark and causing it to cut out or if it is a fuel issue. I have cleaned all contacts and put grease in the connectors. Still no luck. Can still get spark to go in and out.

1 more question, would not having and storage oil or fuel in the carb cause the o-rings inside to deteriorate and possibly cause my issue? I have not pulled the carb apart as i did not suspect that as actually being the issue.

Thanks for all the help so far. Off to get the spark tester. Hopefully the parts store has one.
 
kimcrwbr1 said:
The best maintenance is running the engine regularly. It is not any mechanics fault if you do not properly maintain your engine. Start from the beginning like said check engine compression three times engine cold. Check spark with a open air spark gap tester just looking at the plugs tells you nothing. It must jump a gap of at least 7/16 inch with a brite blue snap. Take all the connectors apart and clean with electrical cleaner and put back together with dielectric grease. Sand all grounds metal to metal. Empty your fuel tank in a five gallon bucket and see if water is in the bottom of the bucket?
Click to expand...

I am not blaming anything on the mechanic. My engine is meticulously maintained. I took it to them the fall prior to be winterized and fogged and then again in the spring of 2015 when i took it out to hang on boat and it would not run at all. That is when they rebuilt the carb, fuel pump, changed plugs, fuel filter and attempted to test spark prior to putting gas in it and said that i had no spark. They wanted 600 dollars to change the CDI. No thanks, they are not that expensive to buy even at retail pricing. So i brought engine home and put back in garage, no gas ever put in it moved cdi box around while pulling on it and got spark to come back. Got busy with work and never did anything more with it. So in my eyes it is still set up for storage. Any way here is the list of what i have done.

1. Compression test is good.
2. Have fuel going to carb, fuel is new and is non ethanol. All that i use in my stuff except for the cars
3. Checked spark in the dark. Can get it to go in and out by moving cdi box. Have checked the wiring and get good continuity even when moving harness when not connected to CDI. Guys there could be a break or something right at the connector. I just don't want to cut in and find out as i don't have any replacement pins for the connector. I have cleaned the connectors and ground and placed diaelectric grease in connectors.
4. I don't have an open air gap spark tester. I will get one though.
5. Fuel is new as of 2 weeks ago. I still just drained to check for water, but did not see any.


So what it is doing now it that it will start and only stay running for a minute. I have put some zip ties holding the connector to the cdi box to see if that actually helps. Motor will start and die with in 5 seconds.

So my question is, with the motor not actually having any fogging oil or gas in the carb and fuel pump actually a bad thing? Has the 2 years in my garage caused the o-rings and gaskets in the carb and fuel pump to dry out? I have fuel in the carb. After pumping i can open bowl drain screw and get fuel. Even after it dies the bowl is still full and the primer bulb is still hard. It dies so abruptly that i don't think fuel is the issue. It acts like the spark just went out again.
 
mymotor said:
My post said that it needed to be approved by a moderator. Don't know if it is because i am a new member or what.
Click to expand...

I am not blaming anything on the mechanic. My engine is meticulously maintained. I took it to them the fall prior to be winterized and fogged and then again in the spring of 2015 when i took it out to hang on boat and it would not run at all. That is when they rebuilt the carb, fuel pump, changed plugs, fuel filter and attempted to test spark prior to putting gas in it and said that i had no spark. They wanted 600 dollars to change the CDI. No thanks, they are not that expensive to buy even at retail pricing. So i brought engine home and put back in garage, no gas ever put in it moved cdi box around while pulling on it and got spark to come back. Got busy with work and never did anything more with it. So in my eyes it is still set up for storage. Any way here is the list of what i have done.

1. Compression test is good.
2. Have fuel going to carb, fuel is new and is non ethanol. All that i use in my stuff except for the cars
3. Checked spark in the dark. Can get it to go in and out by moving cdi box. Have checked the wiring and get good continuity even when moving harness when not connected to CDI. Guys there could be a break or something right at the connector. I just don't want to cut in and find out as i don't have any replacement pins for the connector. I have cleaned the connectors and ground and placed diaelectric grease in connectors.
4. I don't have an open air gap spark tester. I will get one though.
5. Fuel is new as of 2 weeks ago. I still just drained to check for water, but did not see any.


So what it is doing now it that it will start and only stay running for a minute. I have put some zip ties holding the connector to the cdi box to see if that actually helps. Motor will start and die with in 5 seconds.

So my question is, with the motor not actually having any fogging oil or gas in the carb and fuel pump actually a bad thing? Has the 2 years in my garage caused the o-rings and gaskets in the carb and fuel pump to dry out? I have fuel in the carb. After pumping i can open bowl drain screw and get fuel. Even after it dies the bowl is still full and the primer bulb is still hard. It dies so abruptly that i don't think fuel is the issue. It acts like the spark just went out again.
 
I am not blaming anything on the mechanic. My engine is meticulously maintained. I took it to them the fall prior to be winterized and fogged and then again in the spring of 2015 when i took it out to hang on boat and it would not run at all. That is when they rebuilt the carb, fuel pump, changed plugs, fuel filter and attempted to test spark prior to putting gas in it and said that i had no spark. They wanted 600 dollars to change the CDI. No thanks, they are not that expensive to buy even at retail pricing. So i brought engine home and put back in garage, no gas ever put in it moved cdi box around while pulling on it and got spark to come back. Got busy with work and never did anything more with it. So in my eyes it is still set up for storage. Any way here is the list of what i have done.

1. Compression test is good.
2. Have fuel going to carb, fuel is new and is non ethanol. All that i use in my stuff except for the cars
3. Checked spark in the dark. Can get it to go in and out by moving cdi box. Have checked the wiring and get good continuity even when moving harness when not connected to CDI. Guys there could be a break or something right at the connector. I just don't want to cut in and find out as i don't have any replacement pins for the connector. I have cleaned the connectors and ground and placed diaelectric grease in connectors.
4. I don't have an open air gap spark tester. I will get one though.
5. Fuel is new as of 2 weeks ago. I still just drained to check for water, but did not see any.


So what it is doing now it that it will start and only stay running for a minute. I have put some zip ties holding the connector to the cdi box to see if that actually helps. Motor will start and die with in 5 seconds.

So my question is, with the motor not actually having any fogging oil or gas in the carb and fuel pump actually a bad thing? Has the 2 years in my garage caused the o-rings and gaskets in the carb and fuel pump to dry out? I have fuel in the carb. After pumping i can open bowl drain screw and get fuel. Even after it dies the bowl is still full and the primer bulb is still hard. It dies so abruptly that i don't think fuel is the issue. It acts like the spark just went out again.
 
[FONT=Open Sans, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]I cleaned all the connectors and applied grease. Fuel is fresh with no water and did not have old fuel left in line or carb/fuel pump. And i only use non ethanol. Don't have an air gap tester, so will need to get one. Did check spark at night and i can get it to come on and off while moving the cdi around. Don't have new connectors to replace the old though so don't want to cut back wiring looking for a break.[/FONT]
 
You may just have poor pin to socket fits at the CDI connector. A very close examination may reveal whether or not you may be able to CAREFULLY tighten the sockets for a tighter pin fit.

Good luck.
 
Here is an update for you all on this one.....

Mymotor brought his motor into our dealership.

For an old motor it was really clean. It turns out that there were several issues.

No spark.....did turn out to be a bad cdi. If you squeezed the connector of the cdi, you got spark. Tweeking the pins to make a better connection, did not good. The connection issue was on the otherside of the connection on the cdi.

Motor had too high oil and autolite spark plugs (although...so called equivalent).
Lowered oil (which was somewhat dirty) and changed spark plugs and started her up.

It started right up, but the idle was way too high (approx 2000 + rpm). The previous dealer set the linkages wrong when they put the carburetor back on.
Got the idle down, but the motor did not pee. Steam coming out of tell tail and motor was starting to get hot.

Pulled lower unit and there were no fins on the impeller. Pulled thermostat, backflushed cooling system to remove impeller pieces. Cleaned out the rest of the pieces from under the pump and in the water intake. Checked thermostat. At least, that checked out ok.

Installed new water pump (customer wanted us to do that anyway...due to the age of the engine).

Changed motor oil and gear lube. Customer had already changed fuel filter.

Ran engine in tank. Motor pumped water, came to proper temperature, and seemed to run ok....except at idle. When the motor was accelerated, it did not want to come back down to idle. When it finally did, the idle also seemed to vary. Motor slowed down when idle mixture screw was turned out to correct # of turns and sped up when turned in all the way. Pretty odd. Tighten carburetor and did not find any air leaks.

Something caught me eye on the carburetor as I was going to lunch and it bothered me the whole time. I saw a little piece of green gasket just barely sticking out between the intake and the front of the carburetor.

Just to be sure, when I came back, checked the parts diagram....since sometimes (really more frequently..at my age) I tend to forget things. There is not supposed to be a gasket there.

We probably sold the gaskets, etc to the other dealer for the carb job and included two base gaskets...since it has a base gasket, a spacer and another base gasket.

As I was removing the gasket, I did observe that it covered up the air intake for the idle circuit...blocking the air for idle. That is why it ran faster when I turned the screw in. Turning the screw out, made the engine run too rich.

Readjusted carb to where it should be and reset idle and everything ran smooth....just like these 9.9's are supposed to run.

We called Mymotor today, and it already had it out using the motor...so I guess things worked out ok.

Hope this may help someone in future troubleshooting.

Mike
 
All I can say is that if you are in or around the Cincinnati area Mike is the guy to take your motor to. He had mine going in exactly a week and it runs like a dream. I forgot how well my old engine ran. I mean, after all it is a Honda. I now have a full-time Honda marine mechanic less than 15 minutes away and didn't even know it. My Honda will go no where else from now on. Thanks again hondadude.
 
I would like to thank hondadude for backing up my (and chawk_man's) WORDS with DEEDS.
It turns out I (we) were right, hondadude really is the BEST!
Thanks hondadude!
Ha Ha!!
 
Good stuff. Lots' of great help on this sight.

Question for the dude. Can you check for proper thermostat operation without removing the thermostat?
If so, where is the best place to measure the temps on these BF9.9's?
 
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