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BF25 - Multiple Operational Issues - 2005

T

toledoman

New member
Hello,

I've been fighting with engine issues fore the 2-yrs I've owned it.

It was supposedly repaired by a certified Honda repair facility as well as operators of the marina... Lots of $$$

Symptoms seem to change each time I make it to the lake. I'll start with the last time there...

Was hard starting, usually starts a lot better/quicker. Primed it, has fresh gas, new fuel filter & plugs. Has a new tank as well.

After starting, it would quite almost immediately. Each time starting it would run a little longer. Finally stayed running then would randomly quit. Never left the dock. Noticed fuel leaking on the back of the carb & fuel line between the center & lower carb. Looks like it was at the base of the carb as well on the side of the fuel line facing the intake manifold. Unless the carbs are really full of fuel, I can't see how it's coming from the actual carbs. Also, there are no clamps on any of the fuel lines inside the engine cover.

Other times it would run ok. Problem was it wouldn't start after running for more than 10-minutes. Took over 30-minutes to get it going again.

Does this engine have a manual choke? There is a toggle on the console indicating a choke but I was told it didn't control anything, the engine doesn't have a choke???

Any thoughts short of a "Viking Burial" in the middle of the lake would be appreciated!

Sorry about the long-winded post!!!

What was done before I purchased the boat:
External fuel tank installed
Carbs cleaned, top one was replaced.
Coil Assembly replaced
Bystarter replaced
Ign Module replaced
Tune & set timing
Total out the door from the shop was $2435.76 !!!
 
First the fuel lines need clamps or zip ties to make sure their not sucking air. The fuel leaking could be from a bad or misaligned base gasket or float stuck in the carb and over running the bowl. Hard starting and crappy performance could be from any one of these, clogged jets in the carb or idle mixture screws improperly adjusted.
 
It's hard to say, from this far away but it sure sounds to me that the carburetors weren't properly serviced and balanced.

Honda carbs need to be handled in a very meticulous manner to have them performing as they should. Very unforgiving to to a tech that hasn't the prescribed experience and information. The info is easily obtained in the HONDA MARINE CARBURETION MANUAL available through Amazon for about $50. The experience is gained by doing.

Don't get me wrong, they are not HARD to get right but they DO have to be CAREFULLY worked on and following the manual to a "T" will bring success. Doing it yourself is not for everyone but when your so called "certified Honda dealer".....which, sadly, in many cases, simply means they sell Honda outboards and buy a required quantity of parts per year, what choices do you have?

I contract serviced repairing Hondas for just such a "dealer" for 5 years. And, in all that time, I know they never sold a single Honda outboard!

Anyway, the first thing to ask in this case is why was the by-starter replaced and was it properly tested, along with it's electrical operating circuit? In 5 years, I never sold one. They just don't seem to ever go bad. That's all in the manual too.

I'm sorry you're having trouble with your 25 (excellent, STRONG outboard) and I hope you find a solution to getting it running as it should.
 
The repairs on the engine from the Honda dealer were done before I got the boat. I called but couldn't talk to anyone who knew anything about it.
I have a service manual on order. Is a good idea to also get the carb manual? I'm stuck without a trailer to take it anywhere. There aren't any dealers within a 2hr drive in any direction.

I'm new to small engines like this. Plus it's hard to work on while still in the water. Going to turn it around in the dock next time so hopefully will be able to get a better look at it.

Does this engine have an actual choke? There is a switch labeled "Choke" on the console but doesn't do anything. I was TOLD that it doesn't have an actual choke. I find that hard to believe.

The marine guy said he could install a new Yamaha 25 for 5175.00. The boat itself is in great shape. I really think it's a waste since there can't really be a lot wrong with this one.

The lake is 5-hrs away so I wont be going back till next weekend. Was hoping the service manual wold arrive first. There are no parts available within an hours drive from the boat. Just makes it a pain to DIY when you have to experiment on what to do next. Nobody in that area has any knowledge about Honda's either.

Thanks!
 
jgmo said:
It's hard to say, from this far away but it sure sounds to me that the carburetors weren't properly serviced and balanced.

Honda carbs need to be handled in a very meticulous manner to have them performing as they should. Very unforgiving to to a tech that hasn't the prescribed experience and information. The info is easily obtained in the HONDA MARINE CARBURETION MANUAL available through Amazon for about $50. The experience is gained by doing.

Don't get me wrong, they are not HARD to get right but they DO have to be CAREFULLY worked on and following the manual to a "T" will bring success. Doing it yourself is not for everyone but when your so called "certified Honda dealer".....which, sadly, in many cases, simply means they sell Honda outboards and buy a required quantity of parts per year, what choices do you have?

I contract serviced repairing Hondas for just such a "dealer" for 5 years. And, in all that time, I know they never sold a single Honda outboard!

Anyway, the first thing to ask in this case is why was the by-starter replaced and was it properly tested, along with it's electrical operating circuit? In 5 years, I never sold one. They just don't seem to ever go bad. That's all in the manual too.

I'm sorry you're having trouble with your 25 (excellent, STRONG outboard) and I hope you find a solution to getting it running as it should.
Click to expand...



I'm hoping the service manual I ordered shows up soon. Do you think it's got enough carb info or should I still order a carb manual?

Does this engine have an actual manual choke control? There is toggle on he console but I as told I didn't actually doesn't d anything. I have tried using it but it doesn't have any effect.

THANKS!!!
 
I have a Honda service manual on order. Is there significant additional info in the carb manual?
I did contact the servicing dealer to get some insight on the repairs. Nobody at the dealer would speak to me about it. They offered to come and get it AGAIN to see what NEW repairs would be needed. Since I dont have a trailer, I'm pretty much stuck repairing it myself.

A question I still have is does this BF25 have an actual choke? If so, is there a manual way to operate it? There is a toggle under the key on the console labeled choke. It has no-effect whatsoever on starting. I was also told it didn't do anything anyway, it applied to a different Honda engine. This is the original engine sold with the boat.

I'm going back to work on it this coming weekend, it's 6hrs each way. Hopefully the service manual will arrive soon.

Thanks!
 
Hi Toledoman,

Sorry to say that the Shop Manual....even the GOOD one (not Seloc, not Clymer), the "official" shop manual......in fact has next to nothing useful in it to aid in the servicing of the carburetors. The Honda Marine Carburetion manual is the definitive publication for understanding and effectively repairing or cleaning the carbs. Along with a multiport carb balancing tool, the service becomes fairly easy to get right the first time.

There is no choke, per se, for these carbs. Cold starting enrichment is performed automatically by what Honda calls the BYSTART assembly. See item 21 in the parts listings below.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2005/BF25D5 SRTA/CARBURETOR ASSY/parts.html

The bystarter is a no touch enrichment device mounted to the top carburetor ONLY.
When the engine is cold, the enrichment circuit is defaulted to enrich the fuel mixture. After the engine starts, the charge coil begins supplying voltage to the bystarter through the single wire going to the device. The charge volts are continuously supplied to the bystarter while the engine is running.

Over the course of approximately 1 to 1 1/2 minute of initial engine operation the bi-metal in the head of the bystarter gets electrically heated and begins to move. This movement is transmitted to a "pintle" valve at the bottom of the bystarter. When the pintle is fully extended (less than 2 minutes time) it closes off the enrichment passage and prevents the engine from over fueling and possibly flooding.

I have never seen a bystarter go bad. I have seen them lose power, usually due to a broken or unplugged feed wire.

Testing simply involves removing the bystarter from the top carb and applying 12vdc to the wire while providing ground to the bystarter housing. The pintle valve should begin moving at about 1min and be fully extended by about 2 minutes time.

That's it!

HTHY
 
jgmo said:
Hi Toledoman,

Sorry to say that the Shop Manual....even the GOOD one (not Seloc, not Clymer), the "official" shop manual......in fact has next to nothing useful in it to aid in the servicing of the carburetors. The Honda Marine Carburetion manual is the definitive publication for understanding and effectively repairing or cleaning the carbs. Along with a multiport carb balancing tool, the service becomes fairly easy to get right the first time.

There is no choke, per se, for these carbs. Cold starting enrichment is performed automatically by what Honda calls the BYSTART assembly. See item 21 in the parts listings below.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2005/BF25D5 SRTA/CARBURETOR ASSY/parts.html

The bystarter is a no touch enrichment device mounted to the top carburetor ONLY.
When the engine is cold, the enrichment circuit is defaulted to enrich the fuel mixture. After the engine starts, the charge coil begins supplying voltage to the bystarter through the single wire going to the device. The charge volts are continuously supplied to the bystarter while the engine is running.

Over the course of approximately 1 to 1 1/2 minute of initial engine operation the bi-metal in the head of the bystarter gets electrically heated and begins to move. This movement is transmitted to a "pintle" valve at the bottom of the bystarter. When the pintle is fully extended (less than 2 minutes time) it closes off the enrichment passage and prevents the engine from over fueling and possibly flooding.

I have never seen a bystarter go bad. I have seen them lose power, usually due to a broken or unplugged feed wire.

Testing simply involves removing the bystarter from the top carb and applying 12vdc to the wire while providing ground to the bystarter housing. The pintle valve should begin moving at about 1min and be fully extended by about 2 minutes time.

That's it!

HTHY
Click to expand...

Thank for all the great info! I have carb manual on-order. That's also the best info I've gotten from anyone on the choke question.

Also, I'm going to verify the fuel line and bulb are installed correctly. They installed the bulb pretty close to the engine. would tin it should be neared to the fuel tank. I have to lean over pretty far to prime it. I'm now wondering if the bulb may be backwards.

I'll check the bystarter as well. I'll also be putting clamps on the fuel lines between the carbs. If all else fails, I'll pull the carbs next.

THANKS AGAIN!
 
jgmo said:
Hi Toledoman,

Sorry to say that the Shop Manual....even the GOOD one (not Seloc, not Clymer), the "official" shop manual......in fact has next to nothing useful in it to aid in the servicing of the carburetors. The Honda Marine Carburetion manual is the definitive publication for understanding and effectively repairing or cleaning the carbs. Along with a multiport carb balancing tool, the service becomes fairly easy to get right the first time.

There is no choke, per se, for these carbs. Cold starting enrichment is performed automatically by what Honda calls the BYSTART assembly. See item 21 in the parts listings below.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2005/BF25D5 SRTA/CARBURETOR ASSY/parts.html

The bystarter is a no touch enrichment device mounted to the top carburetor ONLY.
When the engine is cold, the enrichment circuit is defaulted to enrich the fuel mixture. After the engine starts, the charge coil begins supplying voltage to the bystarter through the single wire going to the device. The charge volts are continuously supplied to the bystarter while the engine is running.

Over the course of approximately 1 to 1 1/2 minute of initial engine operation the bi-metal in the head of the bystarter gets electrically heated and begins to move. This movement is transmitted to a "pintle" valve at the bottom of the bystarter. When the pintle is fully extended (less than 2 minutes time) it closes off the enrichment passage and prevents the engine from over fueling and possibly flooding.

I have never seen a bystarter go bad. I have seen them lose power, usually due to a broken or unplugged feed wire.

Testing simply involves removing the bystarter from the top carb and applying 12vdc to the wire while providing ground to the bystarter housing. The pintle valve should begin moving at about 1min and be fully extended by about 2 minutes time.

That's it!

HTHY
Click to expand...


Thank for all the great info! I have carb manual on-order. That's also the best info I've gotten from anyone on the choke question.
Also, I'm going to verify the fuel line and bulb are installed correctly. They installed the bulb pretty close to the engine. would tin it should be neared to the fuel tank. I have to lean over pretty far to prime it. I'm now wondering if the bulb may be backwards.
I'll check the bystarter as well. I'll also be putting clamps on the fuel lines between the carbs. If all else fails, I'll pull the carbs next.
THANKS AGAIN!
 
jgmo said:
Hi Toledoman,

Sorry to say that the Shop Manual....even the GOOD one (not Seloc, not Clymer), the "official" shop manual......in fact has next to nothing useful in it to aid in the servicing of the carburetors. The Honda Marine Carburetion manual is the definitive publication for understanding and effectively repairing or cleaning the carbs. Along with a multiport carb balancing tool, the service becomes fairly easy to get right the first time.

There is no choke, per se, for these carbs. Cold starting enrichment is performed automatically by what Honda calls the BYSTART assembly. See item 21 in the parts listings below.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2005/BF25D5 SRTA/CARBURETOR ASSY/parts.html

The bystarter is a no touch enrichment device mounted to the top carburetor ONLY.
When the engine is cold, the enrichment circuit is defaulted to enrich the fuel mixture. After the engine starts, the charge coil begins supplying voltage to the bystarter through the single wire going to the device. The charge volts are continuously supplied to the bystarter while the engine is running.

Over the course of approximately 1 to 1 1/2 minute of initial engine operation the bi-metal in the head of the bystarter gets electrically heated and begins to move. This movement is transmitted to a "pintle" valve at the bottom of the bystarter. When the pintle is fully extended (less than 2 minutes time) it closes off the enrichment passage and prevents the engine from over fueling and possibly flooding.

I have never seen a bystarter go bad. I have seen them lose power, usually due to a broken or unplugged feed wire.

Testing simply involves removing the bystarter from the top carb and applying 12vdc to the wire while providing ground to the bystarter housing. The pintle valve should begin moving at about 1min and be fully extended by about 2 minutes time.

That's it!

HTHY
Click to expand...


Thank for all the great info! I have carb manual on-order. That's also the best info I've gotten from anyone on the choke question.

Also, I'm going to verify the fuel line and bulb are installed correctly. They installed the bulb pretty close to the engine. would tin itshould be neared to the fuel tank. I have to lean over pretty far to primeit. I'm now wondering if the bulb may be backwards.

I'll check the bystarter as well. I'll also be putting clamps on the fuellines between the carbs. If all else fails, I'll pull the carbs next.

THANKS AGAIN!
 

Thank for all the great info! I have carb manual on-order. That's also the best info I've gotten from anyone on the choke question.

Also, I'm going to verify the fuel line and bulb are installed correctly. They installed the bulb pretty close to the engine. would tin itshould be neared to the fuel tank. I have to lean over pretty far to primeit. I'm now wondering if the bulb may be backwards.

I'll check the bystarter as well. I'll also be putting clamps on the fuellines between the carbs. If all else fails, I'll pull the carbs next.

THANKS AGAIN!

 
I'm not sure what effect, if any, putting the bulb closer or farther from the tank would have but they are typically about 1/2 way between tank and quick disconnect in the hose. Yes, check to be sure it's not in backwards.

Don't forget to check the power going to the bystarter if you can get her started. Low volts could cause flooding.

Take a spare fuse for charge system with you.

Good luck.
 
jgmo said:
I'm not sure what effect, if any, putting the bulb closer or farther from the tank would have but they are typically about 1/2 way between tank and quick disconnect in the hose. Yes, check to be sure it's not in backwards.

Don't forget to check the power going to the bystarter if you can get her started. Low volts could cause flooding.

Take a spare fuse for charge system with you.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks!
My thoughts on the bulb was that it may be installed backwards? If there's a check-valve in the bulb an it's pointed the wrong way, could that cause fuel delivery issues?

On the voltage, should it just be around battery voltage of about 13v or a specific voltage?

Spare fuse is a great idea!

Thanks again for your help!!!
 
Weeeell, made it to the boat on Sunday. It's behaving the same as the last outing. Very hard to start. Crank But doesn't fire. Will eventually start and run for a few seconds then cuts off. Crank a loooong time then starts and runs a few seconds longer each time. Wont run for longer than than maybe 20-seconds at most. It's not flooded. More like it just shuts off. It's getting gas cause it's leaking out the forward side of the plate behind the carbs where it meets the baffle. It's not the fuel lines leaking. I can say it didn't look like it was leaking after the engine did start for a few seconds. Seemed only to be leaking while cranking and attempting to start it.

I finally gave up and pulled the carbs off the engine. My back and arse were getting sore from sitting on the edge of the dock looking for answers. Still waiting on my carb manual.

Anyone know of a good source for a complete carb kit for a 2005 Honda BF25d ?

Thanks!
 
They don't really have a "carb kit" for these. But they do sell the few critical parts + a gasket set you need to refresh them. The thing with these little carbs is getting them cleaned properly and then put back together correctly. Other than I would advise you to use a new gasket set after you open one up, any parts that are replaceable may be reused if they pass close inspection.

Below is a link to a boats.net page with the 25 D carbs. Note that each carb is a bit different with different part numbers. But if you start looking at individual internal parts , in most cases you see Quantity 3. Meaning that part is used in each carburetor.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2005/BF25D5 LRTA/CARBURETOR ASSY/parts.html

So, depending on what you decide you need, you reference your model (the link is for the BF 25 D LRTA).

If you look at item 25... #40, PRI JET SET....., you see quantity of 3. But there are 2 part numbers used depending on engine serial number. However, I'm not sure those are engine serial numbers they have listed. Those numbers look a lot like carb "type" letters and number's to me. If those don't come anywhere near your engine serial (stamped on engine block) then I would say boats.net got things mixed up. And if that's the way it is, then just look at your jet set and make sure it has 40 stamped in it. If so, I wouldn't worry about using either of those part numbers.

boats.net doesn't strictly adhere to the Honda parts acquisition system and it can be confusing at times. But one thing I know is that they stock most of the parts Honda has. You just have to try to figure out what they are saying sometimes.
 
Last edited:
Resolved!

First of all, thanks to everyone that responded with helpful suggestions.

That being said, the solution I found that worked was to trade-in the boat and bought a new Starcraft EX21" with a Yahama 50 on her. Did this last fall and got a pretty good deal.

A couple of days later, I checked the dealer's website and found my old boat listed. I called the shop to ask what they found. They said the wrong gaskets were used in the carbs. While I was glad to hear the boat wasn't possessed by evil spirits intent on causing me grief for the fun of it, it ticked me off to know that the dealer was the one who installed the wrong parts. The dealer that actually fixed it wasn't even a Honda authorized repair facility.

Anyway, enough ranting. Going to putting the new boat back in over the next couple of weeks if this cold spell ever ends!
 
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