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BF225 sputtering

B

bvs

New member
I have a 2006 BF225 that wasn't un-crated until last year. I have about 65 hours on it now and it has just started developing a problem where about 2-3 minutes after I get up on plane it starts sputtering and will not recover unless I go back and squeeze the fuel bulb a dozen times or so. As far as I can remember, this bulb has never gone hard, but then again I never messed with it until this problem developed. When the problem started it would only occur about 1 out of 10 times I'd open the throttle. Now it happens almost every time. After priming, 9 times out of 10 I can then make the rest of the run without any problems. Once in a while it needs a few squeezes again. I have no power issues whatsoever with the motor and can run 30 minutes or more at WOT at 6100rpm once it gets going. I never get any engine beeps or warnings.

I'm guessing I just need to replace the bulb because every other outboard I've had needed a hard bulb or it usually wouldn't run period. I'd still like a second (or third) opinion though.

My setup is as follows:
1. Fuel flows from the tank into a fuel/water separator filter.
2. Fuel flows form the separator into a primer bulb
3. Fuel flows from the primer bulb into the motor housing.

Every gallon of gas this boat has ever seen has been treated with Marine Sta-bil because it usually takes me a couple of months to burn though a full tank. 98% of my engine hours are put on my 9.9hp kicker.

Does the 225 usually have a low pressure fuel pump mounted in the tank? I don't think mine does, thus the need for the primer bulb.

I was going to just replace the primer bulb and fuel/water separator and drain the vst, but I've read a lot on this board about completely removing and cleaning out the vst and replacing the high-pressure filter to fix this problem. It seams to me that the the fuel/water separator should have caught any gunk before it made it to the vst or high-pressure filter. Or am I wrong?

Thanks for your help.
 
Could be any number of things. Sure - if in doubt, replace the bulb and fuel line to the motor. Drain the on-board fuel water separator. Clean/replace the on board low pressure filter. Drain the VST - could be water or trash in there. With just 65 hours on it, I doubt if the HP filter has died, but if in doubt pull it and inspect it. Closely check the fuel lines for good connections.

If all that fails to cure the problem, then do a pressure test on the LP pump, and the HP pump. Remove the VST and clean out the tank and wire filter inside.

BTW - I highly recommend you invest in a Helm shop manual. In the long run, it will save you money and give you a good education on that engine.
 
That engine should have come with a 5 year warranty and (dealer installation?). If they did it right, then you should not have any problems with junk in any of your on board engine filters/vst, etc. The outfit that did mine installed a Honda/Racor filter on/in the motor well. You should be able to look at the Racor filter and see if there is anything in it. I doubt if the Honda primer bulb would be bad.
I would suspect your are sucking a little air, so do as Chalk_man suggested and check you connection and check to see if you separator filter is tight and sealed. How about your fuel pick in the fuel tank? Do you have an anti-siphon valve coming out of the fuel tank?
I took interest in your post since I did the same thing, installed a year old engine, they do come with a 5 year non-declining Honda warranty So far, I haven't had any problems and am on my second year and almost 100 hours.
 
gss036 makes some good points. Air in the fuel line could be the problem. As he suggested, if you have an anti-siphon valve coming out of the tank, check that, or even bypass it temporarily.

When is the last time you drained/changed the external fuel-water separator? Check that your external fuel-water separator connections are tight and that the filter housing is secure and tight. If you have the Racor type that drains by a turn cock on the bottom, make sure that is tight and sealed. Some times they come loose and some times the seal fails. If in doubt, temporarily bypass the external fuel-water separator and take the boat out for a run and see if it still boggs down under pressure.

If that does not fix the problem, run a clear plastic line from your bulb to you fuel-water separator on the engine. Start the engine and look for air bubbles. Again, you may need to take it out for a run to see if the air bubbles start when the engine bogs down under pressure.
 
The motor came with a 5 year warranty. I had the choice between a 2009 150 or for $1k more I got this 2006 225 with counter rotation (probably the reason it had been around so long). If it were a 2007, it would have been titled as a 2009, the year it was sold.

Unfortunately, my Honda dealer who'd been in business for 40 years went bankrupt 3 months ago and the next closest one is now 3 hours and $200 in round-trip towing gas away. I'm pretty sure this is a rigging issue that wouldn't be covered under Honda's warranty anyway and it should be a simple fix. My filter/water separator is just a spin-on (no valve on the bottom of it) and no, it hasn't been replaced yet.

I think you are right in that the problem is air, or at least lack of gasoline, in the fuel line. The boat acts just like you'd expect if it were running out of fuel. I'll let you know what I find. Thanks for the tips.
 
I finally had a chance to look closer at the motor tonight. I think I fixed the problem. It was so simple I feel like a moron now.

When the mechanic rigged the motor he left quite a bit of extra fuel hose. Over the last year the weight of the primer bulb hanging on the hose had pulled the bulb down to where the "out" arrow was literally pointing 30 degrees down. I stuffed the fuel hose back through the zip tie that was holding it up so that the arrow on the bulb was pointing up at a 45 degrees again. Within 5 pumps the primer bulb was hard and it has stayed hard. The Honda primer bulb must stay at least slightly sloped up or the check valve does nothing.

I'll try this out on Saturday if I get a chance, but if you don't hear back, it's because the problem is gone.
 
I thought you might like an update. Mounting the primer bulb vertical didn't help. I got myself a Helm manual and have been through and ruled out the following:

Fuel tank pickup: screen was clear
Anti-siphon valve on the fuel tank: working like a charm
Fuel/water separator on the boat: 10u filter didn't have a drop of water in it, but I replaced it anyway
Primer bulb: works great and pumps up rock hard
Fuel/water separator on the motor: not a drop of water in it
Low pressure fuel filter on the motor: looks brand new
Low pressure fuel pump: draws a 13psi vacuum wet, 10psi dry
Vapor lock solenoid: Kicks on for 3 seconds when the key is turned on, as it should
VST: Drained, nothing but clean gasoline came out
High pressure fuel filter: squeaky clean

Went to the lake on Saturday afternoon, primed the engine, and took a 40 minute cruise to the other end. No problems whatsoever. I anchored and let the kids play in the water for an hour or so and then we pulled the anchor and headed back. After about 2-3 minutes at 4000RPM the motor sputtered and died. VST tank was obviously empty as I had to pump the primer bulb about 15-20 times before it went hard. Engine fired right up and we cruised back to the ramp, 20 minutes at 4000RPM and 10 minutes at 6000RPM at WOT.

I'm at a loss. The problem is obviously fuel starvation, but I can't find the cause. Any ideas as to why the vapor separator tank is going dry on on me? If it was the float valve then I wouldn't be able to fill it so easily using the primer bulb right?

Could this be a vapor lock issue? With the pump able to draw a 10psi vacuum dry, wouldn't it be able clear any fuel vapor out of the line and start pulling fuel? Or, will the fuel boil faster than the low pressure pump draws the vapor? Saturday I was on a 4000' lake and the air temp was 101F. Water temp was 80F. Two weeks ago, where the problem happened nearly every time we went to get off the lake, I was camping at a 9000ft lake and the temp was 80F. Come to think of it, this problem rarely happens on our way out the fishing grounds, only on the way back and it was far worse at 9000ft.

I thought vapor lock was a thing of the past, but I'm starting to lean more that way. Maybe I just need to install a fuel pump at the tank and get on with life. Then again, I might just be imagining things in my quest for a cure.
 
The VST system is supposed to prevent vapor lock. In almost 700 hours on a 225 in all kinds of hot weather (but always near sea level) I've never experienced any apparent vapor lock issues, nor have I heard of any other owners having that problem on the 200/225.

Based on your descriptions, it still sounds like you have an air leak that may be intermittent. I suspect that you have an air leak problem at one of your hose couplings or around one of the many rubber O ring seals between your onboard fuel-water separator and the HP fuel pump. That also makes sense to me because the motor sat for several years before installation, letting them dry out and possibly deteriorate. I think you need to go through each juncture in your fuel delivery system and inspect each coupling and each O ring.

Folks more experienced with running these engines at altitude should jump in on this.
 
I pressure tested the entire fuel system from the tank to the VST and there were no leaks whatsoever. I also did a fuel flow/pressure test on the low pressure pump and there were no problems.

FYI, the problem has completely gone away. I think I got a stale tank of fuel in late April (It takes me about 2-3 months to burn through a 70 gallon tank) that was still formulated for winter and boiled too easily at 95F and 6000ft+ where 80% of my boating is done during the summer. Since filling up with fresh gas I've had almost 8 hours of hard running (watersports) without any issues at all.

The VST elimates vapor lock in the high pressure pump, but does nothing for the low pressure pump. This is why there is a vapor lock solenoid to help purge the air out of the pump/fuel line. Unfortunately in my case the solenoid needs to stay open just a little longer on cold starts to compensate for running winter fuel in the middle of July. Now that I know the problem it will be easy to prevent.
 
Excellent. Glad to hear you are up and running well. That was a good learnig experience for all of us following this thread.
 
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