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BF225 cold starting issue w/ pic

R

Reelaxin

New member
Hello All
First time poster, however, I've been reading the forum for awhile. Lot of great info on here that has helped me navigate different issues on my honda. My issue is this. I have a 2002 Honda BF225 that that I purchased used in 2007. The engine has approximately 500 hours on it and aside from this issue it runs great. When the engine is cold, ie sitting overnight or for a few days, it never starts on the first crank. It turns over and coughs a couple of times like it wants to start but doesn't. It appears to be losing it's prime as it sits for awhile. However, on the second key turn when cold it fires right up and runs great for the whole day. All day long it always starts on the first key turn. I've done the following: drained the VST, replaced the HP and LP filter with new O rings, new primer bulb, new racor on the boat, WOT 5900 rpms. No warning lights or beeps come on. Fuel and all filters are clean as a whistle. It's had all of the SB done except 56, however, the exhaust ports are higher than 6 inches from the water line. I run 89 octane non-ethanol fuel from my marina. While poking around today I noticed a dent/crack in the fuel line coming off of the fuel cutoff solenoid to the LP pump. There was no gas or leak that I could detect. I won't be able to take the lower cowling off until this weekend to check it out further. I guess my question is this, does this crack/dent appear to be enough to allow air in to the fuel line to allow the fuel system to lose prime when it sits for awhile? If this isn't the problem, I guess I'm stumped. Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks in advance. fuelline.JPG
 
If there is no fuel leak there, I doubt if that is the source of your problem. I suspect you have an air leak someplace else. Check the seals on your fuel-water seperator and LP fuel filter, then inspect and check every connection on the fuel line all the way to the HP pump. When you drained the VST, had the engine been sitting for awhile and did you get a lot of fuel out - about a pint?
 
Thanks for your reply chawk:

I replaced the O ring on the fuel water separator just recently and replaced the HP and LP filters with new O rings the end of last season and everything looked clean. Ive been trying to chase down this staring issue for quite some time. The primer bulb fills up and gets hard after a few squeezes, however, even priming the fuel system with the bulb on the first start of the day doesn't fix the problem. When I drained the VST at least a pint came out, however when I loosened the set screw the fuel didn't just come out, I had to briefly suck on the end of the hose to start the fuel coming out. That was nasty! The fuel was very clean, no water or junk.

I will try and inspect more of the fuel hoses this weekend when I can get the lower cowlings off.
 
If the VST pumped out a pint of fuel after the engine had been sitting for the length of time it normally takes to cause a hard start, then you are not losing fuel pressure. It's something else. Do you have a Helm shop manual? My initial thought is that your fuel shut-off valve may be slow to activate (i.e. open) due to a sticky valve or bad connection. If I recall correctly, there is a method for testing the valve in the shop manual.

Just for grins, try turning on the key switch, but not starting for about five to ten seconds, then swing over to the start position and see if that clears up the problem.
 
After thinking about it, I'm not sure if I drained the VST while it was cold or after it ran. I'll drain it again after it's been sitting a while and see how much fuel comes out. I thought about the fuel cut-off solenoid, but after finding the nick in the fuel line I thought that might be the problem. I do have a shop manual and it says it should measure between 43.2 - 52.8 ohms. Will check that out this weekend when I get the boat back to my house and will try starting it by pausing for a few seconds in the on position before flipping over to start.

Couple of questions:
When draining the VST the fuel doesn't come all the way out on its own, is the normal? Usually it comes out in to the hose, but stops because it has to go over the cowling, unless I help it along, by sucking on the end:(. Also, the manual says to go straight to start when starting. Should I pause in the on position when the engine is cold to allow the fuel system to pressurize?

Thanks for the ideas and tips chawk_man. This Honda 225 is on the back of a 23 Key West CC and I love the boat. I just want to get to the bottom of this cold starting gremlin.
 
I've had problems draining the VST on occasion. Apparently, there is a very small bleed channel which can easily clog. I typically blow a little low pressure compressed air down the tube to open it up. Once open, there should be enough pressure to empty the entire VST. If you need to help it along, then you are losing fuel pressure. Close the set screw, turn on your key switch for about five seconds to re-energize the fuel pump, turn off the key switch, then try to drain it.
 
Reelaxin,
Im starting to have the same issue with my 08 225 with 575 hrs except I also get the hard starts even when warm, on my last trip after running for 4 hours I turned off the engine to switch fuel tanks and it took me 4 tries to get it going.
After having an ethanol issue with one of the tanks ive been running rec 90 fuel for my last 40 hrs.
Similar to you it runs great right up to WOT with no alarms,
Im curious to what youll find,
Im due for service soon so ill have them look at it and let you know what they find.

Good Luck
 
lucky me , I hope I dont chinks myself 2002 225 1900 hrs on twin 225 .. No starting issues BUT I turn key listen for beep then start or let fuel pump kick on then run
I feel if that hose was truly cracked you would see fuel, I did when I changed filters and didnt replaced oring on hp filter properly saw fuel right way... anxious to here your findings
 
Hey chawk_man, just for grins:), I went over to the boat today and put the key in and went over to the on position and paused for about 10 seconds before flipping to start and amazingly she fired right up. I don't believe the manual says anything about starting it this way when cold. Is this how I should be starting it when the engine is cold? I guess by waiting it is allowing the HP pump to energize the fuel system. I will be bringing the boat to my house this weekend where I can check it out a little further. Thanks for all your help and I'll keep this thread going if I find out anything different.

Let me know when you're in Tampa and I'll buy you a cold one:D
 
Roger that. When I turn on the key, I wait for both beeps, pause a couple of seconds to let the HP fuel pump energize the system, then crank. Fires up every time. Guests on my boat marvel at how fast and how sure it starts.

Reelaxin - consider this. When you turn off a hot engine, there is fuel evaporation in the HP pump and fuel rail, as well as some extra pressure. If you try to start soon after that, the engine needs to kick in new fuel and equalize pressures. Give it some time.

Also, to all - it is good practice to not shut off these big Honda engines unless they are going to be shut off for awhile, Letting them idle for 10 to 20 minutes eats very little fuel and does not harm to the engine.
 
Hey chawk_man - Unfortunately this situation is not fixed. When I brought the boat home, I tried starting it in the morning by pausing in the on position before starting and it wouldn't start on the first try, like always on the second key turn she fires up. The last time I tried starting it when the engine had been sitting, it was in the afternoon. I don't know if the time of day has anything to do with it or if this is just an intermitent problem. I even tried this morning to start it by turning the key to the on position, waiting for both beeps, then back off and the on again and pausing before starting and she still wouldn't fire up on the first turn, second turn fired right up. I did measure the resistance at the fuel cutoff solenoid and it was 51, the shop manual says 52.8 is the upper limit. My multimeter isn't the greatest, maybe this valve is about to go and is sticking and not opening right away, which is why it won't start on the first try when cold. Any other thoughts or ideas would be helpful. Thanks
 
Reelaxin said:
Hey chawk_man - Unfortunately this situation is not fixed. When I brought the boat home, I tried starting it in the morning by pausing in the on position before starting and it wouldn't start on the first try, like always on the second key turn she fires up. The last time I tried starting it when the engine had been sitting, it was in the afternoon. I don't know if the time of day has anything to do with it or if this is just an intermitent problem. I even tried this morning to start it by turning the key to the on position, waiting for both beeps, then back off and the on again and pausing before starting and she still wouldn't fire up on the first turn, second turn fired right up. I did measure the resistance at the fuel cutoff solenoid and it was 51, the shop manual says 52.8 is the upper limit. My multimeter isn't the greatest, maybe this valve is about to go and is sticking and not opening right away, which is why it won't start on the first try when cold. Any other thoughts or ideas would be helpful. Thanks
Click to expand...
I know this was back in 2013, but I was wondering if you ever figured the issue out?
 
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