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BF200 - Cutting Out @ 3/4+ throttle

W

Windward Pier

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Greetings all. I'm the (currently frustrated) happy owner of a 2007 Everglades 211cc that came with a BF200 (approx 425 hours). I've recently had an issue come up where the boat will fall on its face after I run it at greater than +/- 4500rpm for more than a minute or two. I can easily power it up on plane then back off the throttle and run at a 4-4500 or so cruise (30mph) but a minute or so after increasing speed will feel like it ran out of gas or hit a sandbar; instinctively I always pull throttle back to idle immediately and it his not yet stalled out. Below are some details as to what I've checked so far:

- no engine codes/alarms
- runs great up until said issue
- ample fresh fuel w/ stabilizer (67 gallon tank)
- checked and replaced racor fuel/water separate - no debris or water
- replaced primer bulb
- replaced on-engine filter & checked on-engine fuel/water separator
- replaced complete VST w/ new Honda unit (seemed like most likely culprit but didn't cure issue)
- vacuum check on system from racor to VST; no leaks
- no signs or smell of fuel in bilge, etc.
- checked condition of low pressure pump diaphragm; not torn or deformed
- ran boat with filler cap off - no difference
- general service is up to date (plugs, oil change, etc.)

I still feel like I'm dealing with a fuel system problem and will try running the motor at WOT on an external tank to prove out the rest of the relatively inaccessible items (fuel pickup/screen & anti-siphon valve partially blocked) this weekend. I have not had a 2nd person available to check the primer bulb to see if its sucked flat during any of these instances.

Please feel to chime in and let me know if you think I've missed anything on the fuel delivery side and/or let me know if anything else might cause this behavior. I can't image its spark w/ the individual coils or any major mechanical problem (e.g. low compression) with how well the boat runs otherwise. Any and all help is greatly appreciated.
 
The checks that you plan to conduct sound right.

Specifically, did you change out the high pressure fuel filter?

There are two fuel screens that should be checked. One is in the HP fuel pump. The pump motor actually sits in a holder with a screen on the bottom. There is also a fuel filtering screen on the fuel regulator.
 
CHawk,

I believe I addressed the filters and screens you mention when I replaced THIS entire assembly (Honda P/N 16730-ZY3-A04). It appears the fuel pressure regulator isn't part of this assembly based on the parts fiche. I assume this is under the intake manifold - can you confirm? Is the screen inside the regulator body?

Thank you

chawk_man said:
The checks that you plan to conduct sound right.

Specifically, did you change out the high pressure fuel filter?

There are two fuel screens that should be checked. One is in the HP fuel pump. The pump motor actually sits in a holder with a screen on the bottom. There is also a fuel filtering screen on the fuel regulator.
Click to expand...
 
chawk_man said:
Let us know the results.
Click to expand...


Circling back on this; I've had the chance to replace all of the above parts and still have the same issue. I took the boat into a shop and they were only able to replicate the issue once and stated it wasn't long enough to draw any conclusions so its now back in my possession. They did confirm that they saw no issues with the fuel system (pickup to motor) via vacuum gauges, etc.

This past weekend I plumbed a 3-way valve, ran the boat out into the bay and opened it up. About a mile in, the issue presented at which point I switched to source B, a 6-gallon portable tank full or rec fuel and went at it with the exact same result.

Now I'm really scratching my head!?! I checked the ECU for codes when I got home and had a "1" which I believe is O2, spark plugs or coils. I've never had a warning light/beep come on in the last 100+ hours I've owned it.

Is there any way this issue could be related to the O2 sensor? I see there are (2) on this engine - is one any more susceptible than the other? Could I be running too fat at WOT due to incomplete combustion and having the ECU pull all fuel (assuming the O2 is a wide band and thats the logic). Its coil-on-plug so I can't image they are all dropping out at once and the plugs are relatively new (+/- 25 hours; NGK 4095 / IZFR6F-11).

I'm getting repower quotes at this point because I don't have any free time tinker myself and its cost prohibitive at a shop. I'm disgusted by the idea of throwing $15-20k into the repower of what should be an engine with a long serviceable life. Even though the boat runs great at cruise speed I have no confidence in the engine at this point as I don't know when the problem will become worse.

Thanks for your help.
 
chawk_man said:
Let us know the results.
Click to expand...


Circling back on this; I've had the chance to replace all of the above parts and still have the same issue. I took the boat into a shop and they were only able to replicate the issue once and stated it wasn't long enough to draw any conclusions so its now back in my possession. They did confirm that they saw no issues with the fuel system (pickup to motor) via vacuum gauges, etc.

This past weekend I plumbed a 3-way valve, ran the boat out into the bay and opened it up. About a mile in, the issue presented at which point I switched to source B, a 6-gallon portable tank full or rec fuel and went at it with the exact same result.

Now I'm really scratching my head!?! I checked the ECU for codes when I got home and had a "1" which I believe is O2, spark plugs or coils. I've never had a warning light/beep come on in the last 100+ hours I've owned it.

Is there any way this issue could be related to the O2 sensor? I see there are (2) on this engine - is one any more susceptible than the other? Could I be running too fat at WOT due to incomplete combustion and having the ECU pull all fuel (assuming the O2 is a wide band and thats the logic). Its coil-on-plug so I can't image they are all dropping out at once and the plugs are relatively new (+/- 25 hours; NGK 4095 / IZFR6F-11).

I'm getting repower quotes at this point because I don't have any free time tinker myself and its cost prohibitive at a shop. I'm disgusted by the idea of throwing $15-20k into the repower of what should be an engine with a long serviceable life. Even though the boat runs great at cruise speed I have no confidence in the engine at this point as I don't know when the problem will become worse.

Thanks for your help.
 
Sounds like you're describing my engine!!!!!!
It bogs down and higher rpms just as described.

Only difference is that I am getting intermittent fuel venting from the vent tube located on the rear mount case, refer to E-18-10. Which indicates a fuel bowl float needle valve issue. I removed the fuel pump assembly, cleaned out the bowl and all orifices with shop air. Replaced the needle valve #16011-ZY3-A01 and I continue to get fuel venting. HELP!!!!!!

I also had/have the same issue and have replaced all the fuel lines from the fuel tank back, the Racor 10 micron filter, add a clear line to monitor any bubbles, attached a separate 3 gallon tank with fresh high octane fuel.
Changed all 3 engine fuel filters including the first engine fuel filter #16901-ZY3-003, the HP fuel filter 16911-ZY3-010 and the fuel pump filter 16911-759-003 (which is tricky to get to). I've changed the fuel regulator #16740-ZY3-A01, removed and cleaned the main fuel pump assemble and bowl. While I was add it replaced the O2 sensor and spark plugs. Still have issues. Any additional thoughts would help. Question, is there any maintenance that I can perform on the LP fuel pump? Can I open it up and check and clean it?
 
Windward & gis514. I've posted this a few times previously, but there are several filters and screens you need to check in the fuel system.

Fuel filters and screens on BF 200 and BF 225

• Low pressure fuel filter 16901-ZY3-003
• High pressure fuel filter screen 16911 ZY3-010
• Fuel Pump Filter 16911-759-003 (over top of VST)
• Suspension strainer 16915-ZW5-000 (over top of fuel pump filter) See items 5 & 6 at http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Honda/Outboard Engine/2005/BF200A5 XCA/PIPING/parts.html

• Fuel Pump Insulator 16718-ZY6-013 (inside the fuel pump housing)
• Fuel filter mesh 16614-P5G-003 (on fuel rail)

Note: Fuel filter mesh 16614-P5G-003 is on the fuel rail. Item #4 as shown at…
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/H...er/BF225AK0 XCA/FUEL PIPE INJECTOR/parts.html

That last item is often overlooked.
 
Well, problem solved so I'd like to bring this question to a close. I had decided just to repower as I have very little free time to work on the boat and was planning to repurpose the engine for a future project. Anyhow, when I began to disassemble I found significant corrosion (that cakey type) buildup on the engine where the rigging tube & grommet are located - this had caused the fuel line to be pinched down to less than half of its capacity. I clean up the corrosion, put in a long fuel hose connector at the pinch point, reassembled and have put 10 trouble free hours on it since.

I knew it had to be something simple like this which is why I wasn't going to get rid of the engine. I sure am glad I was the guy pulling the engine because it wouldn't have been found by a shop while just doing the breakdown to install new power.
 
Well, that's just GREAT! Glad you found the problem and solved it. Great work and a serious savings to the ole wallet.
 
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