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'97 200hp Johnson Ocean Runner acting up

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pylotttt

New member
A friend asked me to look at his '97 200hp Johnson Ocean Runner.
It has been sitting for 2 years. Last time he took it out he went fishing. He stopped at a few spots but on the last it would not start back up, it just cranked.
2 years later I removed the plugs and squirted some oil in the cylinders because it hadn't moved in 2 years. It turned over by hand easily without plugs.
I removed the fuel line an oil came out. Pumped the bulb till gass ran clear.
Removed the carb bowl screws and drained out oil. Pumped the bulb till gas ran out.
Put new plugs in, installed a new battery, and cranked it over. Sprayed some starting fluid and it caught for a second. Did it a few more times and the motor started and seemed to run fine. Took it out and when the tach hit about 4000 got a steady alarm and the check engine light came on. The alarm went off and when I pulled the power back to below 3000 so did the check engine light. If I push it back to between 4000 and 5000 it goes on again.
I noticed the amp gauge shows 16 volts when the rpm is over about 2000 rpm. I'm guessing that could be a bad voltage regulator.

Anybody know how to test it?

I have heard that the check engine light is related to fuel pressure. Does anybody have any experience with this? could it also be caused by the voltage regulator?
The tach has also started jumping around when at cruise RPM. Again I suspect the voltage regulator is causing it. I don't want to burn up a new battery by running it with too high voltage.

After sitting 2 years the engine seems to run pretty smoothly. I had worried about the carbs being varnished up but maybe they are not as susceptible as the 50-60 hp Yamaha 4 strokes I am used to. Any thoughts?

Thanks for any feedback-
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Your rectifier is sending to much voltage to battery,should be no higher than 14.5 or so. Did you purchase a lead acid auto.type battery,this is what's recommended for marine use. A bad rectifier/regulator will cause the tach. to act up
 
I had already tested with a meter and it was putting out 16 volts.
I changed the voltage reg and the voltage is now OK. Engine started acting up at low and mid rpms. It would be running at ~2000 then stutter, backfire a little through a carb, then stop dead. I was getting ready to do a compression check but decided to try putting my hand over each carb to see if there was a dead cylinder. All acted the same, pulling vac and leaving a puddle of fuel when I removed my hand do to vac pulling it through the carb. When I had finished all 6 carbs the motor started running fine and not sputtering or dieing. Guess there was crap in the carbs that got flushed out???
I tried testing the fuel pump because the primer bulb would be sucked down when the engine was run wide open. I had replaced all fuel lines from tank to pump, anti-siphon valve, fuel filter canister, and checked pick up tube to make sure it wasn't touching anything in the tank. I wasn't able to get a good reading with the vac gauge I used. It looked like 3-4" vac which signals a restriction but the line from the gauge to the T emptied out of fuel. I couldn't find a leak. I decided to take the gauge off and just run a clear line to the pump and it would empty when the engine was run at a fast RPM. Don't know if it is a leak of some kind or a vac being created. Was going to check the output of the pump for 3 PSI but broke the plastic ful supply nipple at the pump that feeds the carbs. Waiting for a new nipple.
 
Still sounds like carbs. are gummed up,try running some seafoam through engine in fuel system gradually. If that does not produce results,remove,disassemble,clean and or rebuild as necessary the carbs.
 
pylotttt said:
....decided to try putting my hand over each carb to see if there was a dead cylinder. All acted the same, pulling vac and leaving a puddle of fuel when I removed my hand do to vac pulling it through the carb. When I had finished all 6 carbs the motor started running fine and not sputtering or dying. Guess there was crap in the carbs that got flushed out???
Click to expand...
Might be a good idea to do a rebuild on all 6 carbs if this happened. If another piece of junk comes loose and plugs a high speed orifice in a carb while running you could roach that cylinder.

pylotttt said:
I tried testing the fuel pump because the primer bulb would be sucked down when the engine was run wide open. I had replaced all fuel lines from tank to pump, anti-siphon valve, fuel filter canister, and checked pick up tube to make sure it wasn't touching anything in the tank. I wasn't able to get a good reading with the vac gauge I used. It looked like 3-4" vac which signals a restriction but the line from the gauge to the T emptied out of fuel.
Click to expand...
How about the fuel filler cap? Did you check to see if that is allowing make-up air to enter the tank? It's possible the check valve in the cap could be bad or maybe a spider or other little critter made a home under there blocking air flow.

Does the boat have a single or dual tanks? Is there any kind of tank selector or on/off valve? If so so there might be a bad o-ring or junk plugging fuel flow through that.

KJ
 
Well, just got back to working on the motor. I replaced the broken inlet elbow(cheap plastic broke when I was tightening a hose clamp.
Replaced the fuel enrichment red knob that had a split in the side.
I bypassed the fuel filter (a racor S3228 10 micron fuel/water separator) and ran the boat. The RPM still only goes to 4600 RPM but I ran it for about 30 minutes with no check engine light.
Returned to thee dock and reinstalled the housing with a new filter. I checked to make sure the filter housing was not corroded
pulled the input and output elbows and reinstalled after confirming they all looked like new inside (no restriction).
Checked the tank vent.
Took the boat out and after about 3000 rpm got the check engine light and noticed the primer bulb was sucked down almost flat.
I had previously changed the anti siphon valve
checked to make sure the pick up tube wasn't hitting anything
changed the fuel lines from the tank outlet to the recor filter, and from the filter to the primer bulb
change the primer bulb
changed the hose from the primer bulb to the internal filter on the engine, checked the internal filter wasn't clogged.

It appears there is a restriction somewhere between the fuel pump and the fuel tank causing a vacuum and turning on the check engine light,
I just cant figure where it it!
Is it possible that the fuel pump is not working correctly and the vacuum is being created by the engine drawing down through the pump?

I've also heard that there as a module somewhere on the engine that disables a few cylinders when shifting from forward to reverse, can anybody confirm that that unit is used on this model engine and tell me where it is? I have heard that sometimes they go bad which affects top engine speed and that it can be disabled by unplugging it.
Is there a chance this motor does not work well with a fuel filter, or that it must be a 200 micron or higher?
Thanks for any feedback.
pylotttt said:
Yes to both.
Click to expand...
 
Iv'e read this thread numerous times, #1 There's no mention of a compression test being performed #2 An open air gap spark test being done, Even though everything points to a fuel delivery issue we need to eliminate the first two steps in outboard troubleshooting. P.O.E. Process of elimination as mention by another. There is a slow mode that kicks in if a overheat condition is encountered,among others low oil feed,fuel feed that cuts out half the cylinders and brings rpms to less than half throttle but that's not your isssue,your getting 4600 rpms. Have highspeed jets been examined yet,cleaned??
 
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Yes Boobie, I agree with what you said long ago, but I am having a hard time finding exactly where the restriction is. It appears to be the fuel filter but there is no restriction in it. I wouldn't want to run the motor without one.
Maybe it is a combination of some restriction in the anti siphon valve, the fuel filter, the fuel lines, etc, etc, but haven't found the smoking gun combination yet.
Boobie said:
Read post # 2 again.
Click to expand...
 
I agree, I haven't done a compression check yet, but the spark is good.
Checking the jets sounds like a valid thing to check next.
Can you think of any past situations where the compression, spark, or mis-adjusted carbs, or a bad fuel pump have caused a vacuum problem on the tank side of the fuel pump?
 
thanks, I found the shift cut out is a switch at the shift linkage below the carbs. I was just checking on info that someone else mentioned just in case there was something I was not familiar with.
 
The shift interrupter switch is designed to knock out the ignition completely on the starboard bank... BUT only for a fraction of a second... so quick that it is hard if not impossible to notice.

However, if that switch sticks, it would cause the starboard bank NOT to fire at all. If the ignition is good on the starboard bank, forget about finding fault with the shift interrupter switch.

Your initial post wording has a sort of play on words. It could indicate that you looked at the engine after having it sit for two years and are working on it now after that two year storage... OR... you looked at it two years ago, then let it sit for another two years and are getting back into it.

However, that really makes no difference as sitting for two years, there is no question that the carburetors and possible some portion of the fuel lines, pump, whatever are fouled, gummed, clogged, and caked on debris is breaking loose now and getting into various passages and of course the jets. It would be necessary to dismantle the carburetors completely to clean and rebuild them as needed.

With the spark plugs removed, the spark should jump a 7/16" gap with a strong blue lightning like flame... a real SNAP! Does it?

The compression should be 95 psi on the starboard bank and 90 psi on the port bank. Standing in back of the engine, facing the spark plugs, the cylinders are numbered as follows:

2.....1
4.....3
6.....5

Those two areas (compression and spark) are the main two ares that should be check first.
 
There's been a lot of talk of a fuel restriction,we all agree,a fuel pressure test was attempted but never completed, Have you tried pumping fuel primer bulb while she's running
 
johnnygjr said:
There's been a lot of talk of a fuel restriction,we all agree,a fuel pressure test was attempted but never completed, Have you tried pumping fuel primer bulb while she's running
Click to expand...
As I stated, when the engine light and alarm come on, the bulb is compressed flat, so it can't be pumped. This didn't happen when the fuel/water separator filter was bypassed, and yes the passages are wide open with no corrosion or buildup in the housing or fittings, and yes the filter was just changed.

Does anybody know what size filter should be used on this engine?
2 micron, 10,100???
 
Thanks for the info.
Since I am getting 4500 RPM I am ruling out the shift interrupter.

The owner of the boat had a problem with the engine shutting down 2 years ago. He put it on a lift and didn't look at it.
I said I would help him starting in November.

Yes I believe the carbs should be rebuilt.

The spark has been checked and it appears good.

We have not done a compression check yet. I agree it needs to be done.

Have you ever seen a situation where a timing, compression, spark problem would create a vacuum on the tank side of a fuel pump, or a fuel pump somehow causing too much pull and overriding the venting ability of the tank, causing the bulb to compress flat when the engine is run wide open?
 
Are the carbs on snugly, Has fuel pump diaphragm been inspected? Primer bulb going flat? Try blasting compressed air thru vent and fuel filler pipe, running out of ideas. You haven't mentioned fuel pressure reading on outlet of pump while at idle or running up to wot. Is fuel pump on securely?
 
pylotttt said:
I replaced the broken inlet elbow(cheap plastic broke when I was tightening a hose clamp.
Replaced the fuel enrichment red knob that had a split in the side.
I bypassed the fuel filter (a racor S3228 10 micron fuel/water separator) and ran the boat.
The RPM still only goes to 4600 RPM but I ran it for about 30 minutes with no check engine light.

Returned to thee dock and reinstalled the housing with a new filter.
Took the boat out and after about 3000 rpm got the check engine light and noticed the primer bulb was sucked down almost flat.
Click to expand...

Question #1
Did the owner ever confirm that was he was getting higher than 4600RPM before issues started? If not, it's possible that is correct WOT if the engine is not set properly on the transom or it is over-propped.

Question #2
Don't take this the wrong way, but are you certain the fuel hoses are connected to the proper inlet and outlet ports on the Racor filter? Is it possible you're trying to pull fuel through the filter in the wrong direction and it's causing a restriction?

There definitely seems to be some kind of restriction in the filter since it ran fine without and then performance decreased once the filter was reconnected. The biggest tell-tale is the bulb went flat when the filter was in place. Then engine is trying to suck in more fuel than the hose can deliver.

Is there any kind of check valve or other device inside the racor housing? Sorry if I'm grasping at straws here, but I think at minimum the filter is one issue that must be resolved.

KJ
 
It seems to me that the first time we took it out after getting it running it did over 5500. I can't say 100% sure, but I believe it did.

I am certain the hoses are on correctly. I went so far as to have him pump the bulb to feel a change in pressure at the outlet hose of the filter.

The only check valve is the anti siphon valve at the outlet of the fuel tank.

Thanks
 
Have you tried a different gauge micron fuel/water separator?? You said boat sat for 2 years, Was old fuel drained? Tank flushed? New fuel added to old?New fuel added to dirty tank? Anything in fuel/water separator when dumped in clear container,let it sit overnight,examine! How about a pressure reading on pump. Have you drained fuel bowls since day one in this post?
 
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