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2006 BF15D Trouble cold starting and stalling unless choke is out about 10-20%

T

Tiltem

New member
Hello,

First post and a new boater, so thanks for your help!

I have had this motor for about 4 months. Had it serviced right after getting it, carb cleaned and overall inspection. Took it out twice and then the impeller blew (I think boat was sitting for awhile before I got it). Took it to a different mechanic and had impeller replaced, oil changed (both top and bottom), and carb cleaned again (he said it was dirty). Took it out and worked good. It was still really hard to start when motor was cold, several pulls to even get it to turn over, and then several more where it would stall out if any gas was given, after 5-10 minutes of this it's warmed up and goes.

Then took it out for second time after the second service, still hard to start, but once going was doing real well. Then we were about 8 miles out and it just died all of the sudden and would not restart. Finally got it to start after about 10 minutes, but it would only idle with the choke out a bit and die with any gas given or putting the choke in. Then another 10 minutes or so, letting it idle as much as it would and giving it gas as it would allow, was able to get it in gear and go with the choke out about 10-20%.

Everyone is telling me the carb, but it's now been cleaned twice with only 2 runs between cleanings.

After reading posts here, I have replaced the fuel filter, emptied the fuel chamber (between fuel pump and carb), replaced spark plugs, and drained the carb.

Things noticed when doing those things:
1. I tested the fuel pump by pulling starter cord with the fuel line detached from fuel chamber, when pulling the cord very little fuel was coming out of the pump (teaspoon or two maybe) compared to what would come out when squeezing the bulb. Not sure if this is a good way to test.
2. I collected fuel from each step to examine (i.e, before fuel filter, after filter, after pump, after fuel chamber, from carb drain). The fuel from tank up to and after fuel filter was fine. From pump and chamber (already emptied and reinstalled) it did have a substance at the bottom, hard to tell if it's water or oil (looked like oil in color and movement). From carb drain same substance, and some small "flakes" which surprised me as well since it's now been cleaned twice and hardly used.

Need help! Did I get a lemon of a motor?
 
Well, i hate to say it but, for the cash you've already spent having the carb "cleaned", you probably could have simply bolted on a new replacement. While I realize you probably don't want to (and shouldn't) go that route now, it does remain an option.

Your story implies that the outboard started and ran ok at first and performed ok after the first carb work right up until the water pump problem. Is that right or did I misinterpret what you were saying?

These carbs are VERY difficult to clean once allowed to be contaminated and can humble even experienced mechanics. I've had my own troubles with these but have learned the lessons over time. I personnally wouldn't trust anyone to clean mine and would choose to buy a new one if I couldn't clean it myself.

Do you know if this outboard was stored or shipped with oil in it while lying on it's side?

Is the fuel tank an old tank that may have had 2 cycle mixed fuel in it?

Just trying to think of how oil could have entered the fuel system.

The only way to KNOW if the fuel pump is working properly is to measure the fuel pressure output with a gauge. But, judging from your description of the symptoms and what the pump output is when pulling the engine over, I would't condemn the pump at this point. I say that because, if you hand prime the carb with the squeeze bulb, the carb bowl should be full of gas and the engine should easily start and idle for a minute or more even if the pump isn't working at all.

I would like to know other things about this engine:
What is the condition of the timing belt?
Is the engine in time?
Are the valves properly adjusted?
Does the engine have adequate compression?

I would certainly verify those four items before going forward with any more carburetor expenditures although the "flakes" you see coming from the carb drain does indicate there may be heavy mineral deposits in the float chamber.
 
Thanks for the response!! Bear with me as my experience with motors is limited.

Ya, was thinking the same, replacing the carb to begin with would have been cheaper.

I've only taken the boat out 4 times since I got it, impeller issue was on second go and didn't go anywhere cause it wasn't peeing. So haven't had much real time on the water with it, maybe 5-10hrs.

The boat and motor were purchased together, so don't think it was sitting on its side.

Fuel tank only used for 4 stroke. Also, very well could be water vs oil that I was seeing in the gas, hard for me to tell.

Timing belt looks good. For the others I'll need to get a few tools. Will get a compression gauge and a timing light to check those.

Any tips/tricks for checking valves, timing, compression on the BF15D engine? Will try to get to this over the weekend, if I can't it'll be a few weeks till my next chance to look at it.

Thanks again for your help!!
 
Was this boat stored a long time/ used very little before you bought it? Sounds to me it had skunky gas in it, maybe ethanol gas, and no preservatives?

Drain the fuel tank amd see if it’s clean or gunky in the bottom. Even if you have filled it with clean gas, you may see evidence of gunk and the tank may need a severe cleaning or just replace it.

If it was stored/not used for a long time and the gas was skunky, there is probably still some small passages in the carb that are partially blocked. I’d seafoam it or Yamaha ring free it with a high concentration in the fuel and see if anything changes. Can’t hurt?
 
Hi, glad to TRY to help...that's why we all (or most of us anyway) landed here in the first place....looking for a little info and..... HELP!!

This "case" really DOES sound like an outboard that was stored with gas sitting in the carb but I would still want to know about all the other stuff as a "baseline" to go forward with. I've never seen a "lemon" Honda twin but there are GOBS of poorly maintained ones out there. The '06 BF15D is actually one of the finest outboards that I know of. The lemons are the owners that refuse to take care of them.

You don't use a timing light to verify valve timing. What I was getting at is to check that the timing marks on the camshaft and crankshaft line up as they should. I would need to look that up to explain it but I will and get back to you if you want.

Adjusting the valves is also very straightforward with only the specifications, a (very) small adjustable (Crescent) wrench and set of feeler gauges needed.

But your mentioning the timing light reminds me of something else about these. The engine is so well balanced that it can start and run on one cylinder. It will do this so well that it can fool you into thinking it is running on both cylinders. Even if the IGNITION is working correctly. This is something to keep in mind as you do your troubleshooting. Learning to do a "cylinder contribution" test might be worthwhile at some point. That's not in the manual so you'll need to do it my way.

I will be happy to provide specificatiins and basic instructions as needed but there's really no substitute for the shop manual if you're doing the work. Available here:

https://publications.powerequipment.honda.com/marine

Just scroll down to the 15/20hp.

However, the shop manual won't help much if you decide to clean the carb yourself (which I urge you to try if you're at all inclined).That info is best obtained in the Honda Marine Carburetion Manual"...something those two dudes you paid to clean your carb probably haven't read or don't really care to. That manual is also available via the above link but is listed under the "support material" button.

If you've read any of my posts you'll know that I'm willing to write thousands of words to try and help. But, a good manual and a determined individual will probably be more successful in likely a tenth of the time.

I have cleaned well over 200 of these "problematic" carbs and have yet to have one defeat me. But they DO get plugged if not taken care of and they DO require quite a bit of effort if they are. If there is a "weak spot" with the post '02 Honda twins it would be the Keihin carburetor. But with a little care and knowledge you can avoid the issues a careless owner will suffer.
 
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Hi,

I just read NSDON's suggestions and I agree. Sometimes I get a little carried away and skip over stuff like he suggests when they could be very useful "first steps".

As to your not being clear about what you see mixed in the gas you drained, it's always good practice to drain into a clear container and then let sit for 15 minutes or more to allow the gas to separate from whatever the contaminate is. DO THIS AWAY FROM DIRECT SUNLIGHT to prevent accidental combustion.

If water is the contaminate, you should easily see the gasoline sitting on top of what will look like almost clear or slightly milky looking "globs" that will appear to sort of roll back and forth as you slightly tilt the container.
 
Thanks for the follow up!

Thinking it was water in the gas. I had the gas sitting in a clear cup and the substance was behaving as described on the bottom of the cup (only more of an olive oil color than clear or milky) and has since evaporated.

Will get fresh gas to rule that out. Still planning on checking compression, timing and valve adjustments.

I do have the shop manual but will check out the one for the carb as well.

Thanks again! Will post back after doing that stuff
 
So do need a little guidance for the timing. If you could?

”You don't use a timing light to verify valve timing. What I was getting at is to check that the timing marks on the camshaft and crankshaft line up as they should.”

Tried to find details in the manual and took off the recoil starter to see if it was obvious but not sure what I should be looking for. I do see a T^ mark on the flywheel and on the cylinder head, and a #1 and #2 mark on the timing pulley. But not sure what to do there.
 
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