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2002 Honda 225 Alarm Issues

R

Richard Powajbo

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Guys, I've read all the forums on related issues and still not sure of my problem. Please help. I have a 2002 Honda 225 Serial Number BAGJ1000479. I'm the original owner. From time to time I get an aggravating alarm. The overheat indicator lights up red and the motor goes into protect mode (dropping the rpm's and running rough). Water pump is pumping and water pressure is good. Water pump and thermostats are changed every 2 years. Currently have 650 hours. Been to two dealers and neither one can completely fix the problem. At 74 hours the ECM was replaced. At 133 hours, the O2 sensor was changed. Both repairs covered under warranty, but the problem still exists. When the alarm goes off, I used to turn the key off and restart. The problem went away temporarily. My latest dealer told me to let it run to see what happens. He said I was clearing the codes when I turned it off. After a short while running with the alarm on, the problem goes away. He checked the codes again and still nothing stored to pinpoint the problem. It happens more frequently in the winter when it's cold. It used to alarm once every 8- 10 trips. Second to last trip ago, the alarm went off 5- 6 times. The last trip, it ran perfectly with no alarms at all. Could the O2 sensor or ECM be bad again? Not sure if it was ever the problem or not. It appears that I don't have any issues with water entering through the exhaust ports (I've read those forums too). Another local Mechanic is telling me that it's the ECM. He's saying while in protect mode, the engine should turn off. He loaned me another ECM to try, but the part number is not exactly the same. My ECM is 3450-ZY3-013. The loaner is 3450-ZY3-A01. Was hesitant to try it since the part number is different. Is it ok to run this on my motor? Any suggestions or advice will be appreciated. Overall, my motor has been excellent except for this nuisance problem.
 
Should be simple if the tech is using Dr. H or his HDS. Check overheat's and low oil pressure alert's(total number) and compare and use as a baseline. Remove side plastic pannel's and remove main water outlet hose's on bottom of exhaust manifold and where it is fitted into mount case. Inspect for restricted hose's. Does the green light ever go off? Thank's Martin
 
That ECM is for a 2006 or 2007 225. I would be hesitant to use it...although it probably would not hurt anything, it is not compatible with your existing o2 sensor and may give you other alarms.

Your vintage 225 did have problems with false overheat alarms, but the new ECM (34750-ZY3-013 that you have and new thermostats should have taken care of that. Make sure that you are using 19300-ZY3-023 thermostats.

Regarding a faulty O2 sensor......I thought you said that the overheat light came on? Did you also get a PGM (check engine) light? Hopefully, you do have four warning lights...

Sometimes, the only way to find these ghosts are for the mechanic take the boat out and get the alarm to go off while watching Dr. H or the HDS. That can get expensive, especially if it never fails. He could also check temperature of the engine with a temp gun.

Sometimes, a stuck open left and/or right relief valve/s could dump water faster than it should and not permit proper cooling...

The mystery is....why did the ECM not maintain any info? Yes...it could be a faulty ECM.....or maybe a corroded contact or two in one of the connectors.

I think I had more questions than answers.

Mike

Whoops! It appears Mcyama already gave you some direction. That's what I get for starting a reply and getting involved in something else before I hit send.
 
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mcyama said:
Should be simple if the tech is using Dr. H or his HDS. Check overheat's and low oil pressure alert's(total number) and compare and use as a baseline. Remove side plastic pannel's and remove main water outlet hose's on bottom of exhaust manifold and where it is fitted into mount case. Inspect for restricted hose's. Does the green light ever go off? Thank's Martin
Click to expand...

The green light never goes off. It doesn't appear to be running hot. On a real cold day (for S. Louisiana) usually temps in the 30's (don't laugh northerner's) it will alarm within the first few miles after leaving the house. It'll do the same after I've fished for a few hours and start up to move to another spot. Thanks for the quick response!!
 
I do have 4 lights. The overheat light turns red and not the check engine light. Will check the connections on the ECM. Y'all have me wondering now if the oil light stays on when the over heat light is red. Will check that next trip. I took a local mechanic for a ride and naturally it ran perfect. Will report my findings as soon as the weather cooperates. All this global warming is freezing us out. Thanks again!!
 
I'm certainly no trained tech like Mike and Martin, but I always like to look at simple things first. This really sounds like a loose or corroded connection between one of the two heat sensors and the ECM, given the erratic nature of the failure. That's why you are not getting a code. So first, check all the connections on both sensors to make sure they are tight and super clean. Especially check for corrosion in the two-prong connectors.

A quick way to check the over heat sensors and their close in wiring is to unplug the two-prong connector and test the resistance across the sensor. When the engine is cold (40F) you should get about 4-5000 ohms. If you then run it up to operating temp (160F) the resistance should drop to around 500 ohms. While doing this test, grab the wire right at the base of the connector and wiggle it and do the same to the base of the connector. If the needle on your ohm meter bounces, then the wiring is corroded internally. If so, I think you will need to replace the sensor because I don't think they can be fixed.

If that all checks out, then there is a bit more complicated procedure for checking whether the sensor is getting the proper voltage. But if it were not getting the proper voltage, I think it ought to throw a code.
 
Richard Powajbo said:
The green light never goes off. It doesn't appear to be running hot. On a real cold day (for S. Louisiana) usually temps in the 30's (don't laugh northerner's) it will alarm within the first few miles after leaving the house. It'll do the same after I've fished for a few hours and start up to move to another spot. Thanks for the quick response!!
Click to expand...

My 2001 BF115 does that if I bring it above 2k RPMs before the engine reaches operating temperature. I originally thought it was a problem, then happened to notice that it's actually mentioned in the owners manual under "Warming up the engine":

"If the engine is not properly warmed up before raising the engine speed, the buzzer and overheat indicator may activate, and the engine speed will be automatically reduced".

The chart underneath that shows 5 mins at 2K using fast idle lever below 41 degrees F, 3 mins normal idle above 41 degrees. I had a temp sender plumbed into the boss on the thermostat housing, so I can tell by the gauge when the thermostat has opened, which is basically what you are waiting for.

Once I started letting it warm up, I haven't heard an alarm since, and I used to get them at the start of every trip. My guess as to the problem is the overheat sensor is downstream from the thermostat and the thermostat needs to open to remove heat from the area the sensor is connected to.

-E
 
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Eli - you raise a very good point. I have two external heat sensors mounted on my manifolds. When the engine first starts up, the right side heats up very fast to about 170F and then backs down to operating range, the left side moves up to operating temperature steadily.

Page 39 in the 200/225 Owners Manual states:

If the engine is not properly
warmed up before raising the
engine speed, the buzzer and
overheat indicator may activate
and the engine speed will be
automatically reduced.
 
I appreciate all the advice and helpful hints. I'm very impressed with the expertise you share and am blown away with the instant feedback. This is an awesome website! I plan on working on my motor this weekend and will report back as soon as I get some time away from work. Thanks again and will report soon.
 
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