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2001 Honda bf225 not enough power to plane

This is a real head scratcher. I'm with Metal Chicken on this one. I really don't think it's your ECM. Check the fuel pressure first.

One other possibility that I rejected earlier is the fuel cut-off solenoid that is on the fuel line between the LP fuel pump and the VST. Maybe try bypassing it with a long piece of fuel line. There is a remote possibility that it could be hung up and restricting fuel flow. If you can do that bypass with a clear plastic fuel line and get someone to look for air bubbles while you are at WOT. The theory is that with the increased suction from the HP fuel pump at WOT, a marginal seal could be pulling in air.
It's now raining and I leave town for work tomorrow morning and get home Tuesday. I'll check fuel pressure again Tuesday and report back. I'll check that solenoid as well
 
Will it rev to the max with no load/prop removed? Which might happen with an electrical issue like a bad ground/bad wire/bad who knows what. Or some part you replaced with a new part that is faulty?
 
If it runs fine up to a point say 20 mph, I’d take it out and run it for an hour or so at that speed and see if anything new happens. This may show up something faulty that will break down with continuous use or it may show up something like a fouled plug that doesn’t show up in short term testing.

Just a thought before you replace an ecm and find out nothing changed.
 
The state of your AIB swirl flaps has me thinking.
I've literally just taken mine* off [to replace the HP fuel filter] and the inside of mine is pretty immaculate compared to yours - certainly no rust on the flaps that yours seems to have.

It's probably not related to anything but it's something to note. Maybe it's your climate, I'm in the UK but the boat is only used in the summer.

* 2007 with about 900 hours
 
Will it rev to the max with no load/prop removed? Which might happen with an electrical issue like a bad ground/bad wire/bad who knows what. Or some part you replaced with a new part that is faulty?
It will Rev up no problem in neutral. I would like to do it in gear with the prop removed but didn't know if that would mess something up or not.
 
If you want to test that, take it back out to the lake, remove the prop and put it in the water with cavitation plate completely submerged and try it that way. (I would not trust doing that on muffs or in a barrel.) If you can get it to around 6000 rpm's then it pretty well eliminates any fuel related issues. If you still max out at 3800 rpm's as you previously got after changing the HP fuel filter, then I think we are back to looking at air leaks, or the ECM.
 
If you want to test that, take it back out to the lake, remove the prop and put it in the water with cavitation plate completely submerged and try it that way. (I would not trust doing that on muffs or in a barrel.) If you can get it to around 6000 rpm's then it pretty well eliminates any fuel related issues. If you still max out at 3800 rpm's as you previously got after changing the HP fuel filter, then I think we are back to looking at air leaks, or the ECM.
Just a thought here, thinking maybe turning 6k while completely unloaded isn't going to require near the fuel quantity it would under load? Unloaded (as in no prop), just cracking the throttle might produce 6k. Loaded, where the throttle would need to something closer to wide open, is where you would need to be to check for the potential fuel flow issue we're talking about here. Or is my thinking all wet?

6k unloaded WOULD test the ECM's ability to fire the plugs at higher rpm....
 
Just a thought here, thinking maybe turning 6k while completely unloaded isn't going to require near the fuel quantity it would under load? Unloaded (as in no prop), just cracking the throttle might produce 6k. Loaded, where the throttle would need to something closer to wide open, is where you would need to be to check for the potential fuel flow issue we're talking about here. Or is my thinking all wet?

6k unloaded WOULD test the ECM's ability to fire the plugs at higher rpm....
That's what I'm thinking as well. Maybe chawk will chime in. If it does reach 6k without the prop, does that mean the ecm is good?
 
If you want to test that, take it back out to the lake, remove the prop and put it in the water with cavitation plate completely submerged and try it that way. (I would not trust doing that on muffs or in a barrel.) If you can get it to around 6000 rpm's then it pretty well eliminates any fuel related issues. If you still max out at 3800 rpm's as you previously got after changing the HP fuel filter, then I think we are back to looking at air leaks, or the ECM.
Se Alan's response as I'm curious as well. Also see my question to him as it is intended for the both of you
 
Okay. I called and had a buddy go by the house and take the prop off and put it in a tub. He said he was able to hit 6k in gear without any hiccups or hesitation. What does that tell me it is or is not? Does this mean the ecm/ecu is good? Maybe a pinhole in a new hose? Would a little bitty teany tiny pinhole really make that much of a difference????
 
Alan. Yes, the ECM would make some compensation for a lack of load, mostly injecting timing and ignition timing, but it doesn't directly control the fuel pump. From Chapter 18 of the Helm Shop Manual...

"The nucleus of the system is the ECM. The ECM receives the operating condition of the engine and other types of information from various sensors and switches, processes the information and outputs signals for optimum control of the multi-point sequential fuel injection system and direct ignition system.

The ECM also supports the system self-diagnosis function and the alert warning system.

The PGM-FI system provides the following controls.

Basic controls -

Controls the fuel injection system, ignition system and idle air control (IAC) valve according to the basic programs set for startup and operation.

Correction controls to cope with changes in operating condition, the PGM-FI applies correction controls to the basic controls for the fuel injection system, ignition system and IAC valve on the basis of the various types of operational information.


Device controls the VTEC system, variable intake system, fuel line cut solenoid valve, high pressure fuel pump, etc. Fail-safe controls When a sensor or IAC valve fails, the PGM-FI uses preset values to allow the engine to operate without any problem.

Alert/warning controls

Activates the engine oil pressure, overheat, alternator, water level sensor full alarms, and also controls the overrev limiter.

Self-diagnosis function Stores a sensor or IAC valve fault in terms of a diagnostic trouble code (DTC). When the service check connector is short-circuited by the SCS short connector, the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) is made to flash the number of times associated with the DTC."
Okay. I called and had a buddy go by the house and take the prop off and put it in a tub. He said he was able to hit 6k in gear without any hiccups or hesitation. What does that tell me it is or is not? Does this mean the ecm/ecu is good? Maybe a pinhole in a new hose? Would a little bitty teany tiny pinhole really make that much of a difference????
I want to remind everyone, I am NOT a marine mechanic, but just an owner of a 2007 BF 225 that tries to do all of my own maintenance and repair. So, what I write on this thread is based on my personal experiences, from reading a lot of the Helm Shop Manual, and from being an active member of this forum since 2008.

Question one - did your buddy run the engine on an axillary tank or the main tank?

Given that your buddy got 6000 rpm running in a barrel without a prop, I would say that there is a 95% probability your ECM is good.. It also pretty well eliminates a fuel blockage or air being sucked into the fuel line - but it does not entirely eliminate that.

The main difference between running the engine under load and no load is that the ECM will change the injection timing and the firing timing. Also, because of the vacuum difference between load and no load, the fuel pressure regulator will return more fuel to the VST under no load.

Next question, I know you changed out a lot of the fuel system parts, but did you change the fuel pressure regulator? Whether you did or not, go back to that and thoroughly check the vacuum line to it and make sure there are no kinks or obstructions to the fuel line that goes back to the VST. That is, there is one fuel line going into the regulator and two lines coming out. One goes to the fuel rail(s) and the other is a return line to the VST. If the vacuum is screwed up under load, too much fuel may be returned to the VST and not enough sent to the fuel rails.

As several have recommended, I strongly suggest that you check the fuel pressure. At idle (600 rpm +/-) with vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator removed and clamped shut, you should read between 41 and 48 PSI. Speaking of fuel rails, you said that you replaced them. Did you also replace the fuel screen on the starboard rail?

If your post was a new one, the first thing I would have recommended is to check the prop. You said that you did that. Given the size and weight of your boat, your prop should be a 14.5" diameter X 15" pitch, or something very close to that. What precisely is it?

Finally, I don't know what throttle control system you have at the helm, but I would go back through that with a vengeance. Get your buddy back and have one hold the throttle lever at the engine while the other operate the throttle at the helm to make sure it is not slipping when held under pressure.

Beyond that, with current information, my brain is out of ideas.
 
Alan. Yes, the ECM would make some compensation for a lack of load, mostly injecting timing and ignition timing, but it doesn't directly control the fuel pump. From Chapter 18 of the Helm Shop Manual...

"The nucleus of the system is the ECM. The ECM receives the operating condition of the engine and other types of information from various sensors and switches, processes the information and outputs signals for optimum control of the multi-point sequential fuel injection system and direct ignition system.

The ECM also supports the system self-diagnosis function and the alert warning system.

The PGM-FI system provides the following controls.

Basic controls -

Controls the fuel injection system, ignition system and idle air control (IAC) valve according to the basic programs set for startup and operation.

Correction controls to cope with changes in operating condition, the PGM-FI applies correction controls to the basic controls for the fuel injection system, ignition system and IAC valve on the basis of the various types of operational information.


Device controls the VTEC system, variable intake system, fuel line cut solenoid valve, high pressure fuel pump, etc. Fail-safe controls When a sensor or IAC valve fails, the PGM-FI uses preset values to allow the engine to operate without any problem.

Alert/warning controls

Activates the engine oil pressure, overheat, alternator, water level sensor full alarms, and also controls the overrev limiter.

Self-diagnosis function Stores a sensor or IAC valve fault in terms of a diagnostic trouble code (DTC). When the service check connector is short-circuited by the SCS short connector, the malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) is made to flash the number of times associated with the DTC."

I want to remind everyone, I am NOT a marine mechanic, but just an owner of a 2007 BF 225 that tries to do all of my own maintenance and repair. So, what I write on this thread is based on my personal experiences, from reading a lot of the Helm Shop Manual, and from being an active member of this forum since 2008.

Question one - did your buddy run the engine on an axillary tank or the main tank?

Given that your buddy got 6000 rpm running in a barrel without a prop, I would say that there is a 95% probability your ECM is good.. It also pretty well eliminates a fuel blockage or air being sucked into the fuel line - but it does not entirely eliminate that.

The main difference between running the engine under load and no load is that the ECM will change the injection timing and the firing timing. Also, because of the vacuum difference between load and no load, the fuel pressure regulator will return more fuel to the VST under no load.

Next question, I know you changed out a lot of the fuel system parts, but did you change the fuel pressure regulator? Whether you did or not, go back to that and thoroughly check the vacuum line to it and make sure there are no kinks or obstructions to the fuel line that goes back to the VST. That is, there is one fuel line going into the regulator and two lines coming out. One goes to the fuel rail(s) and the other is a return line to the VST. If the vacuum is screwed up under load, too much fuel may be returned to the VST and not enough sent to the fuel rails.

As several have recommended, I strongly suggest that you check the fuel pressure. At idle (600 rpm +/-) with vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator removed and clamped shut, you should read between 41 and 48 PSI. Speaking of fuel rails, you said that you replaced them. Did you also replace the fuel screen on the starboard rail?

If your post was a new one, the first thing I would have recommended is to check the prop. You said that you did that. Given the size and weight of your boat, your prop should be a 14.5" diameter X 15" pitch, or something very close to that. What precisely is it?

Finally, I don't know what throttle control system you have at the helm, but I would go back through that with a vengeance. Get your buddy back and have one hold the throttle lever at the engine while the other operate the throttle at the helm to make sure it is not slipping when held under pressure.

Beyond that, with current information, my brain is out of ideas.
I'll be able to check fuel pressure again tomorrow. As for prop, it is a 15.5 x 15 pitch. Fuel pressure regulator is new as well as the fuel rail screen. I have came to terms with this cluster fu$% that it just won't be running right for vacation. It will still go and we will still use it to island hop...slowly but the offshore fishing will have to wait. I'll keep playing with stuff and run it Saturday before we leave for a last test and then call it quits. I'll just drop this troublesome POS off at the mechanic when we get back. I'll definitely update this thread when I get it back with the info on what fixes it and hopefully it will help someone in the future
 
Roger that. Sorry 'bout that! Where are you fishing and island hoping?

Please keep us all posted on your progress. This has been one of the more interesting threads on this forum for a long time.
 
Man, I have searched every thread on the internet and every video on YouTube and have not seen a single problem that I'm having. Ill definitely post the final fix on here. Going to be leaving out of Morehead city, nc. Plan was to head offshore for some wahoo, mahi, and bottom dwellers a few days. That ain't happening now so i will be just taking the family to sand dollar island, and Shackleford banks all week. Would like to get to cape lookout to at least do some spear fishing for sheepshead and maybe a cobra but that's a haul only being able to go 15mph so I doubt we will get there
 
The water in lower left side next to #6 cyl of the airbox looks exactly like problem I'm working on with 2007 Honda 225. Engine runs but water getting pumped across and into airbox in that same spot next to #6 cylinder. Pulled that side exhaust and there was a corrosion hole on bottom of exhaust port finger length down inside. yes water can make its way back thru exhaust valve into the piston and pumped out the intake valve into the airbox. Dry out the box, run it a bit on a hose and if any water returns quickly you can rule out rain, fuel, condensation etc. Exhaust manifold on that side is an easy job to take apart just getting up out of base oring spray blaster around base wiggle side to side front to back and it should come right up. JB weld high heat putty is holding the hole, but O2 sensor likely bad as it runs and revs up in smoothly in neutral but wont power up. Spark plug looked cleaner than the others, Compression test using snap on checked out also at 200 psi because hole not inside combustion chamber.
 
You should consider some of the small boat charters out of Morehead. Usually, they are running 20' to 24' inshore charters and last I looked (at Hatteras) they were pretty reasonable. The Spanish mackerel should be running this time of year and they are fun to catch and great table fare. And depending on where the Gulf Stream is running, and the wind, sometimes the mahi will move in under the grass lines.
 
The water in lower left side next to #6 cyl of the airbox looks exactly like problem I'm working on with 2007 Honda 225. Engine runs but water getting pumped across and into airbox in that same spot next to #6 cylinder. Pulled that side exhaust and there was a corrosion hole on bottom of exhaust port finger length down inside. yes water can make its way back thru exhaust valve into the piston and pumped out the intake valve into the airbox. Dry out the box, run it a bit on a hose and if any water returns quickly you can rule out rain, fuel, condensation etc. Exhaust manifold on that side is an easy job to take apart just getting up out of base oring spray blaster around base wiggle side to side front to back and it should come right up. JB weld high heat putty is holding the hole, but O2 sensor likely bad as it runs and revs up in smoothly in neutral but wont power up. Spark plug looked cleaner than the others, Compression test using snap on checked out also at 200 psi because hole not inside combustion chamber.
Run it on hose for a bit, then pull 02 sensor which is real easy to get to and take out (can use 22 mm wrench to loosen it up first before it gets hot), see if its wet. If wet the water is also making it over to your airbox.
 
The screen on the high pressure pump needs to be replaced. I had same problem last yr. the bottom of that screen is a 2 micron mesh, very fine. I think it acts like an insulator for the high pressure pump. You can change the pump out to, they aren't that much. Saves time
 
You should consider some of the small boat charters out of Morehead. Usually, they are running 20' to 24' inshore charters and last I looked (at Hatteras) they were pretty reasonable. The Spanish mackerel should be running this time of year and they are fun to catch and great table fare. And depending on where the Gulf Stream is running, and the wind, sometimes the mahi will move in under the

The screen on the high pressure pump needs to be replaced. I had same problem last yr. the bottom of that screen is a 2 micron mesh, very fine. I think it acts like an insulator for the high pressure pump. You can change the pump out to, they aren't that much. Saves time
Already done all of that
 
You should consider some of the small boat charters out of Morehead. Usually, they are running 20' to 24' inshore charters and last I looked (at Hatteras) they were pretty reasonable. The Spanish mackerel should be running this time of year and they are fun to catch and great table fare. And depending on where the Gulf Stream is running, and the wind, sometimes the mahi will move in under the grass lines.
Just got home and checked the fuel pressure again. First time I checked it a couple weeks ago, I was at 45 psi at idle. Now I'm at 37-38 psi at idle. I don't understand now that the lines, pumps, filters, screens, fuel rails, etc have been replaced how or why it could be low
 
Running on the boat tank of temporary tank?

You ruled out the boat tank based on the problem staying with the temporary tank..... Have you gone back to the boat tank?
(Which could have pulled more crud through)
 
When I tested the fuel pressure the first time, it was with a borrowed gauge so it could very well have been off. I bought a new one which is what the latest test was from that gave me a reading of 37-38 psi. What in the actual hell could cause low fuel pressure if it's not the fuel lines, primer bulb, fuel filters, fuel pumps, vst, fuel rails, fuel rail screen, injectors, clogged pickup tube, clogged vent tube, or clogged water seperator filter??????
 
So this is the timeline as I see it:

> Engine lost performance and you changed all the filters and you then gained a little performance
> You tried a pony tank with no change and ruled out the boats tank as the issue (I presume since then you have gone back to the boat tank)
> Performance has reduced a bit again despite changing almost everything there is to change (other than the ECM)

The one thing I don't think you've really checked is the boat tank/pickup - you've taken it out of the equation once with no change, but that doesn't mean it's not the issue - you may have sucked crap up in between changing the filters and trying the pony tank.

If only for your own peace of mind I would be checking the state of the pickup in the tank. Have you also completely replaced the line from the tank to the engine?
(I believe the liner can collapse when under more demand, so it runs fine at low speed but collapses under acceleration)

Maybe it is the ECM? 🤷‍♂️
I don't suppose there's another 225 nearby that you could try yours on?
 
What was the state of all the filters you removed?

If you have a spin on water fuel separator, did you empty the filter into a clear container to see if any contamination there? If you didn’t check that, do it now to see if the new filter you installed is clear. As said above, you may have sucked up fresh crap into your new filters.
 
So this is the timeline as I see it:

> Engine lost performance and you changed all the filters and you then gained a little performance
> You tried a pony tank with no change and ruled out the boats tank as the issue (I presume since then you have gone back to the boat tank)
> Performance has reduced a bit again despite changing almost everything there is to change (other than the ECM)

The one thing I don't think you've really checked is the boat tank/pickup - you've taken it out of the equation once with no change, but that doesn't mean it's not the issue - you may have sucked crap up in between changing the filters and trying the pony tank.

If only for your own peace of mind I would be checking the state of the pickup in the tank. Have you also completely replaced the line from the tank to the engine?
(I believe the liner can collapse when under more demand, so it runs fine at low speed but collapses under acceleration)

Maybe it is the ECM? 🤷‍♂️
I don't suppose there's another 225 nearby that you could try yours on?
Spot on. I will pull the pickup out after work today and inspect it again as well as the filters. The line from the tank to the engine is new and replaced
 
What was the state of all the filters you removed?

If you have a spin on water fuel separator, did you empty the filter into a clear container to see if any contamination there? If you didn’t check that, do it now to see if the new filter you installed is clear. As said above, you may have sucked up fresh crap into your new filters.
The filters I removed really were not bad. I have changed them in the past where they looked much worse without any engine performance loss
 
These Hondas seem very sensitive to fuel contamination, especially all the filters/screens inside the cowling, especially the FI outboards.
 
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