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Drive won't go on

R

Ray M

New member
I have just re-powered my Sea Ray with a "take out" engine, transom assy and drive (even the throtle/cables, harness and instrument panel!). This engine (5.7 vortec/ Alpha 1 gen2) is like new and the boat it came out of was damaged so I bought the whole package. They incuded everything and they cut the transom off the boat so I was the one that took it apart, all the serial numbers match.

The install went well, transom assy bolted up no problem, engine went, in no problem, just to get things close, I matched the measurement off of my old engine mounts to the new engine mounts and the alingement tool went right in! The problem that I have now is that the drive starts to go on, Splines are engaged cause I can turn the engine with the prop, but just prior to mating up with the shift linkage (yes it is in forward), the drive stops. there is about a 1" gap between the mating surfaces and when you try to take it back off, it's stuck and you have to pry it off the housing. I thought it might be the oring was holding it on the gimbal bearing so I took that off to try it and the same problem. Re-checked the alingment tool and it goes right into the coupler. I'm out of ideas, anyone have any sugestions?
 
When you say the alignment tool went right in, how much effort did it require? It should slide in with very little effort or engine alignment is off and or gimble bearing alignment needs tweaking. Did you add grease to the end of the tool and after pulling it out look to see if the spline marks in the grease went all the way to the end where the next diameter starts? Are the splines clean? Shift cable hardware not binding/twisting on the way in?
 
the alignment tool goes in with no effort, I didn't look at the grease/spline marks. I did clean the splines just before replacing the orings. it's not yet hitting the shift linkage when it gets stuck
 
I meant the shift actuator on the end of the cable, it should be already going into the drive if you're only an inch away, and make sure the arm that turns and pushes (has a little roller on it) the actuator in and out is in the actuator fork before putting the drive on. Yes, check the spline marks on the tool. Grease up the end, slide it in, and without turning it, remove and look at the markings.
 
the actuator is just getting into the slot when it stops, its not stopping it. it is also stuck when you try to take it back off. I will try the grease trick. thanks
 
Worked a little bit more on engine alignment. Tool again slid in well. Adjusted engine mounts - almost all the way up and I was able to get the drive to the point where I could catch a few threads. I was able to bring it on by tightening the nuts. Ran the boat, seems to be working okay. Wondering if the transim thickness could have been different between the old boat and this boat and maybe the splines had corrosion on them and the shaft is now going slightly further in? I'm thinking that might be the case because as I was tightening the drive there was a slight creaking sound. I spoke with a drive repair shop, they didn't seem to think it was a problem and sometimes happens. A mechanic that was working with me seemed to think it was okay. I'm not feeling great about it. Ever heard of this?
 
Personally, I would only feel comfortable with that if I were confident that it was as you say (spline corrotion) and not a misalignment. A bad alignment will cause higher than normal stress on some components. The grease pattern on the alignment tool would tell you whether it's aligned propperly or not. Missing a pattern on one side indicates misalignment. If your engine coupler has grease nipples, grease it.
 
" I was tightening the drive there was a slight creaking sound. I spoke with a drive repair shop, they didn't seem to think it was a problem and sometimes happens. A mechanic that was working with me seemed to think it was okay. I'm not feeling great about it. Ever heard of this? "

find another shop. If drawing the drive on managed to line up the bearing, then the drive SHOULD slide right off.
If it dosent, bad alignment will cost you a coupler.Only costs a gasket to find out.
 
I know that you keep saying that the alignment tool goes right in, but everything posted sounds like it's not really.

I would recommend that you take your outdrive back off, have an assistant hold the U-joints and shaft from the outdrive up, and measure the distance from the tip of the shaft to the mating surface of the outdrive. Then mark that distance off on your alignment tool. Reinsert the alignnment tool, and make sure that your mark on it is even (or inside) the mating surface on the gimbal.

Hope that makes sense...all it is is trying to make sure that the alignment tool is actually going in as far as it should.

I don't know what the creaking is, but it sounds bad.

Also you say above that you adjusted the engine mounts up to get it to go in. So the alignment tool supposedly went in with the engine mounts in their original position, *and* at the high position? Something sounds amiss.

Is this boat on a trailer? Are you jacking up the trailer in the back? On my boat anyway, I have to jack up the back of the trailer a little to get a good angle to remount the stern drive.
 
Pull the drive back off!. If you can't slide it all the way up to the matting surface by hand there is a problem.

Once you get the drive back off, if it's mot bound up, cover the small end of the alignment tool with grease and slide it in to thew engine coupler. Pull it out carefully and look at the grease pattern. I bet you don't see any change in the grease. How old is the alignment tool you are using?
 
I went through exactly the same trouble last spring after pulling my 470 for cam seal replacement. What I found after 2 days of pure frustration- On the inner transom mounting bracket there is a spring and washer on both sides that the engine mounts sit on. One of my washers was worn pretty good. I purchased new springs and washers (about $8), lifted the motor and installed them. The drive slid right on after that. It doesn't take much mis-alignment to "pinch" the shaft and keep the drive from going in correctly. I LEARNED THE HARD WAY- Being impatient and rushing anything can leave you stranded! I hurried a drive install once, not paying enough attention to the alignment. Fought the drive on, all seemed good till running full out. Burned out the engine coupler about 6 miles off shore.
 
Welcome to the forum bd2011. I like the reply, deffinately a possibility. The difficulty we're having with this one is that Ray says the alignment tool is going in nice and smooth with no effort.
 
so you say the distance of the old motor and the new motor and the old drive and the new drive are the same.

The shaft of the old drive and the shaft of the new drive are the same length.

Everything was the same ?

You changed out the inner transom bracket also ?

The transom had no rot and the drive did not drop a tad.

Or the stringers had zero rot and dropped maybe a tad.

The new coupler has a cap on the flywheel side and the old coupler did not ?

They were the same type couplers, same thickness?

You took all the above into account, before dropping in the motor and hanging the drive.

And yes thickness of the transom matters.

That creaking you hear is the bell housing being stressed? Or the inner transom bracket.
 
troym said:
Are you sure you have the right alignment tool?
Older tools don't go in as far.
See attached.

View attachment 2279
Click to expand...
Pull the drive back off!. If you can't slide it all the way up to the matting surface by hand there is a problem.

Once you get the drive back off, if it's mot bound up, cover the small end of the alignment tool with grease and slide it in to thew engine coupler. Pull it out carefully and look at the grease pattern. I bet you don't see any change in the grease. How old is the alignment tool you are using?

I didn't get an answer to that question in post #10.
 
WoodieMan said:
Welcome to the forum bd2011. I like the reply, deffinately a possibility. The difficulty we're having with this one is that Ray says the alignment tool is going in nice and smooth with no effort.
Click to expand...

Yes I caught that too. I was always instructed that it should slide in with thumb and forefinger to grip it. That way you have very little effort you can apply. If it slides in effortlessly that way, then all is a go! You are right though, something sounds a little funky here.there are so many little things that could be just a smidge out of alignment and make life difficult. One can't be too careful to notice every detail!
One other thing I found that helps- I set my boat perfectly level in every direction using a floor jack on the side of the trailer, and about 6 levels. Maybe it is the insane carpenter in me, but being level first starts everything off right when it comes time to align everything.
One other thing that comes to my mind- there is a little "slop" in the mounting holes through the transom. It is possible that the bell housing and inner bracket are "tilted". I would like to know if when the motor is setting level on the inner plate. Even an 1/8" difference will create a twist when the motor is bolted down tight. Doesn't sound like much, but with the tolerances as close as they are everything matters!
 
Gave this one some more thought today as I sat in a very boring meeting- 470's only adjust front to back, so level the boat taking the time to get side to side and front to back EXACTLY LEVEL. Bolt the motor to the inner transom plate.Now use a 2' level on top of the motor and level it to the boat. I have a feeling you are a long way out of alignment due to the different boat the system came from (rot, settling, etc) versus yours. That should at least get you close to alignment, then use the tool and look at the grease carefully- the marks from the splines should show evenly all around the tool.
 
A few of us have suggested the grease trick and have yet to hear back that it was tried and what the results were. A friend reminded me today of a time I helped him out after he installed the drive but couldn't get it to go in gear. When I showed up to help, I had him tilt the drive all the way up, and low and behold, the shift shaft in the bell housing was in the forward position but the shift arm on the drive was diagonal and bent back. That's when he told me that he had a hard time getting the drive all the way in smoothly but enough to get the nuts on and then pushed the drive home by tightening the nuts. What happened was during the installation, the drive slipped out of forward resulting in the shift arm turning slightly. Don't ask me how he managed to get it in all the way but he did and bent the arm in the process. Had to remove the drive and split it to replace the part.

It's a good thing that you're not forcing the drive in, but it's deffinately a sign that something is wrong. Also ran across a gimbal bearing once that was slightly thicker but it didn't keep the drive one inch away as you describe; only about 1/8.
 
I replaced the gimbal bearing carrier and all. Hammered the new one in with the appropriate tool. Couldn't get grease to pump into the bearing so I must have missed the grease hole in the housing. Decided to use the slide hammer on the new bearing and pull it out. Inspected and felt the bearing, all seemed ok. Pounded it back in. The alignment tool felt like it went right in and made contact with the back of the coupler however, I had no spline marks. Did this numerous times and though maybe I was just wiping them off on the gease seal or bearing as I pulled it out.

So....I tried to put the drive back on. No good. I could get it all but about the last inch. Over and over again for about 3 hours. And the worst part was that once it was that far, it wouldn't come back out either without prying. Finally decided to re-check the alignment. Finding the same results as before I tried to knock it out of alignment and start over. I couldn't get the bearing to move at all in any direction. So I figured the re-removing it with the slide hammer must have messed it up.

So I hammered it out again. I decided to use the alignment tool with no bearing just to see how far in it would go and what the grease would look like now. This time it went in farther and had perfect spline marks in it. So I must not have had the bearing all the way in.

Now it looks like I am buying another bearing this afternoon and trying again. I also marked on my alignment tool where it is flush with the gimbal housing when it is all the way in the coupler. Hopefully I won't miss the grease hole this time.

Outdrive work is fun!!!
 
If you purchase new gimbal bearing from a merc dealer I believe they are all NON servicable now. NO greasing!! therefore no need to align the grease hole..........

Also the bearing is a spherical outside diameter so it has the ability to rotate some.

When installing a gimbal bearing it doeas need to be seated all the way!! I dont know what "tool" you are using but due to the lack of availablitity of a good install tool I made my own. I use a 3 lb sledge hammer and my bearing driver I made to install it all the way.

It takes me about 3 good hits before it is seated. Almost all hammer driven installs will create a bur when driving it in so it does take some force to seat it all the way.....

I beleive that there is a threaded installer that connects to the gimbal studs and allows you to drive the bearing in simply by turning a large nut!!
 
Non servicable huh? Sounds like "wont last as long" to me.

I have the official Mercruiser rod, head and cup gimbal bearing install tool and a large hammer.

Usually I can hear a difference in sound when the bearing seats. I thought it was there but apparently not. I think I was getting a little impatient with it. I bet I hit it 15 times though. I used an aftermarket bearing which may have been my first mistake. Today I will go to my local dealer and see what they have.

Have you ever tried leaving the bearing in the freezer over night and then installing? May make it easier. Seems like it could be damaging, pounding on a frozen piece of metal like that.
 
No I have not tried the freezer thing, Cant carry a portable freezer to someones house............lol and ice in a cooler is for BEER!!

The driver I made fits the bearing exactly, it only makes contact with the outside race and the drive ram is 1" dia X 24 inches long.

Here is a picture but it is just a simple drawing and NOT what it looks like exactly.................

It makes what use to take 15 hits or so and 10 - 15 minutes and hope it goes in all the way a 3 hit job and done!

The 3 jaw puller i use I changed the hammer wieght from the 2-3 lb to a 10 lb piece of steel so pulling one only takes 1 or 2 whacks and its out......

total job time for gimbal bearing replacement including outdrive on and off went from 1-2 hours to maybe 45 minutes. Of course this means NO engine alignment needed only bearing replacement.
 
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Yeah, your tool was probably a lot cheaper. I used to rent from one of the local shops here for something like $15 a day. I finally just bought one.
 
Just for fun try sliding the gimbal bearing over the drive input shaft before you install it, just to make sure it fits the shaft.
And before you install the new gimbal bearing reach in and make sure there is no ridge preventing the bearing from seating. If there is, use some crocus cloth to smoot it down. Also a thin coating of 2=4=C or any grease will make the gimbal bearing slide in much easier.
I like to put a felt pen mark on the alignment bar in line with the face of the bell housing, before installing the new bearing, just so you know when its in all the way.

Rod
 
Wow, lots of great input guys. Don't worry, I went through something similar and initially thought I had attained proper alignment. Not a chance! lol Eventually, after another 3 hours of adjustment by myself. Not a one man job if you don't have proper allignment. jmho. I like the 12,3,6,9 alignment tool trick. It helped orientate the gimbal bearing a little better and finally was able to slide the drive right in, but you have to be close enough to get away with it. You made alot of changes, nothing stays the same when swapping engines. I had to build my own engine block for front engine mount to sit on from scratch , so I am familiar with what you are going through. Can't rush it! Take your time and recheck everthing over and over before you try and mount drive. I found that I was slightly off with respect to side to side allignment rather than the up and down adjustment. In my case, I had no benchmarks to start with so it was pretty difficult and challenging being it was the first time at it. I had a tough time with mine but fought hard and finally got the tool to slide in (all the way!) and use two fingers with the grease of course to slide it in and out of coupler. I liked Rod's idea about checking to see if bearing fits over shaft also. I broke my original gimbal housing trying to get the original bearing out. What a joke! It was so freakin frozen in there I don't think at this point on the learning curve I had a chance in hell of getting it out. $250 later and a ride to North Jersey, I was back in the game! lol Oh my God, If I only knew what I was getting into. lmao. Anyways, this boat stuff aint easy and is darnright confusing the first time up at bat so hang in there and you will figure it out. Oh yeah, as Rod mentioned, check the gimbal housing where the bearing seats to see if there is some kind of burr or damage to the aluminum thus preventing the bearing from driving home. Could be as simple as that.
 
Well I got the new greaseless bearing. I measured where the back of the bearing should be seated to the lip of the gimbal housing and came up with 9&9/16ths. So then I measured the actual bearing which is right at 1". So I figure with the bearing in there it should measure 8&9/16ths. Got it in and actually came up with 8&9/16ths. I marked the alignment tool when I had it in there without the bearing so I knew how far in it should go. Got it aligned to the point where I could get the alignment tool in only using my thumb and index finger. The spline marks all looked pretty even. Managed to get the drive to go right on first try. A dramatic reversal of the situation over the weekend. Guess alignment is not over rated.
 
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