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2010 BF50D Fuel Pump issue

Well, I appreciate your caution.

It only gets more confusing and VERY costly if you charge forward without understanding.

I know because I have made some very expensive moves myself.
 
Ok I just performed Ian’s original test via test light and I am getting power for about 2 seconds and then it turns off at vst power harness plug while using the connector positive and ground. I’m assuming this means that the ecu is performing as it normally should?

Is it safe to say that it just doesn’t like this current fuel pump and is cutting the ground due to high amp draw or some other condition?

Would it be worth performing the procedure you recommended jgmo? I guess that would show if the ecu is kicking the pump off by not going to 0 volts….Im assuming all of this with the little knowledge I’ve learned so far. Just hesitant to probe on the ecu if not needed, but am definitely willing if it will provide needed information.
Thanks again
 
So...
You're saying that the pump is running for 2 seconds then shuts off?

Or, you are seeing your meter register volts but the pump doesn't run?

If it's the second one, then the pump is shot.
 
I was using the test light which Ian suggested with pump disconnected using using the vst power plug. So it lit up for the two seconds and then turned off. I’m gonna say that the main relay and ecu are doing what they are supposed to do hopefully.

Also with everything hooked up, when I turn the key to “on” I can hear the fuel pump spin for maybe 1/4 of a second and then it shuts off. Definitely nothing close to the amount of time the light stayed lit for the “priming” of the fuel system.

Yes it’s seeming like the pump is the problem. I’m going to check the harness that’s inside the vst for any problems that could be causing resistance. I do remember seeing a tiny bit of green on the harness so I will double check that it’s ok.

If everything checks out it looks like I will be buying a new oem pump from boats.net.
 
Well, it sounds as though you have a good plan there.

Yes, check that harness for sure but it does sound like a new pump is in your future.
 
Just a tiny bit of green on the connector but nothing really that looks like it would cause an issue.

Ordering a new pump tonight and will let you guys know the end result when it shows up and everything is buttoned up.
 
New pump will fix it. When you fit it, cut off the top of the top hat shaped seal, they tend to close up over time causing fuel starvation
 
iang6766 said:
New pump will fix it. When you fit it, cut off the top of the top hat shaped seal, they tend to close up over time causing fuel starvation
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Thanks Ian, I’ve already trimmed that seal/grommet. It had definitely swelled into the outlet hole. Pump should be here tomorrow, fingers are crossed.
 
Ok good news, with the new fuel pump installed the motor fired right up. But it does still seem to have an issue.

When the motor is cranked on it fires up instantly and then goes into a "high idle" which i assume its supposed to do. Then it tapers off into a steady idle but it has a slight, I would call it, consistent stumble. But, it will idle with no other issues it seems. I get the 2 beeps when key is turned on, and as its running the light by the key is also green with the other 3 red lights unlit.

If I give it throttle via the intake lever with linkage unhooked, it hesitates a bit before climbing in rpms, but it will rev up and go back to idle without dying which Im happy about. "making progress". My plan is to buy some techron fuel injector cleaner and mix it kind of hot in a few gallons of gas and run that through it for 15-20 minutes at a time and see if i can maybe clean the injectors that way. Soak it overnight and repeat. Shouldnt be any harm in mixing that cleaner a little strong would it?

Im planning on buying a set of OEM spark plugs. Is there any certain place you guys would start at on diagnosing this? While I had the injector rail off, I can see that in the past someone had tried to clean the injectors as I can see some small scratches on the injector ends, but the tiny holes dont look damaged.

I tried to run the screw on top of the throttle body "the one with the rubber plug covering it" in and out to see if the issue would change but all it changes is the idle speed it seems. Underneath that theres also a small tiny hex screw with a keeper nut on it that sets the throttle plate. Does anyone know the proper default settings for these or an easy way to set it. Im unsure if someone has already tried to change it in the past.

Thanks for the help to get me here and running, any other suggestions are definitely welcome.

forgot to mention that i cleaned and purged the low pressure filter, canister, and replaced high pressure fuel filter. And purged the line before hooking up to fuel rail by priming with key.
 
I watched some videos about bench cleaning the injectors and have found a method I feel comfortable performing. Does anyone know the voltage the Honda injectors fire at? Or where I would find that information.

I don’t want to over volt them. It did sit for some time with old fuel and I’d assume that they have junk in them and it wouldn’t cost me anything to start at that.

thanks again
 
12volts, make sure you open and close rapidly, don't hold them open. Personally I would get them sonic cleaned, not that expensive and they can be flow checked too. You will not get varnishing out of injectors any other way and you will like end up running lean
 
Well I was able to get the injectors cleaned and they seemed to be spraying well, no dribbling or weird spray profiles that I could see. Didn’t really make much of a difference for the stutter. I’m going to buy a new set of spark plugs just to rule them out and then go from there I guess.

I need to check the part # on the o2 sensor to make sure it’s the correct one installed.

If the o2 was acting up the motor should store a code correct? Would the green light on the key switch stay illuminated if there was a problem with it? Maybe I’ll try to pull codes via jumping the red plug.

I’ll get the plugs installed and go from there. Also think it’s time for a new low pressure fuel pump as the diaphragm inside has kind of collapsed on one side. It’s not torn but doesn’t look good.

Would you think I’d have any luck with a decent after market low pressure pump since it’s just a mechanical part and nothing electrical? I don’t believe these Honda pumps are rebuildable. These parts sure can add up quickly. Thanks again
 
SaltTime said:
Well I was able to get the injectors cleaned and they seemed to be spraying well, no dribbling or weird spray profiles that I could see. Didn’t really make much of a difference for the stutter. I’m going to buy a new set of spark plugs just to rule them out and then go from there I guess.

I need to check the part # on the o2 sensor to make sure it’s the correct one installed.

If the o2 was acting up the motor should store a code correct? Would the green light on the key switch stay illuminated if there was a problem with it? Maybe I’ll try to pull codes via jumping the red plug.

I’ll get the plugs installed and go from there. Also think it’s time for a new low pressure fuel pump as the diaphragm inside has kind of collapsed on one side. It’s not torn but doesn’t look good.

Would you think I’d have any luck with a decent after market low pressure pump since it’s just a mechanical part and nothing electrical? I don’t believe these Honda pumps are rebuildable. These parts sure can add up quickly. Thanks again
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Low idle stumble and shake is common with these motors. I found setting the valve clearance to 010" inlet and 012" exhaust.
 
Ok thank you for this information ian, I’m still waiting on new plugs in shipping to rule them out. I did do a compression test recently while the motor was warmed up and got 200 for top 190 for middle and 190 for the lower cylinder. Would you still suspect the valve clearance would have an effect with those numbers. I will definitely be checking them since you suggested it.

Also, will the two adjustments on the throttle body have any effect on how rich/lean the motor will run? There’s one on top with a rubber plug and one lower with a 8mm lock nut and a hex adjustment screw.

When I get these plugs I will be updating again as I am not too confident it will clear this issue up. I appreciate your guy’s patience and the help provided so far.
 
Okay, the screw you are looking at does nothing to quantity of fuel injected, it is a manual air bypass to allow minimal extra air to increase idle speed slightly, it will not smooth out the idle quality. Good compression does not mean correct valve clearance. I have learnt for experience that slightly bigger intake valve clearance on the 60 and all the v6 motors improves idle quality considerably. The 60s are well known to shake around at idle. Do the valve clearance to the values I gave you and you will see.
 
iang6766 said:
Okay, the screw you are looking at does nothing to quantity of fuel injected, it is a manual air bypass to allow minimal extra air to increase idle speed slightly, it will not smooth out the idle quality. Good compression does not mean correct valve clearance. I have learnt for experience that slightly bigger intake valve clearance on the 60 and all the v6 motors improves idle quality considerably. The 60s are well known to shake around at idle. Do the valve clearance to the values I gave you and you will see.
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ok I think I get the plugs around Monday so I will take a look then.
 
Ok got the plugs installed and no real change to the situation. I let it run for about 4 minutes and took pictures of the plugs afterwards. They all 3 had a tiny bit of build up on the top of the top electrode. I don’t know if 4 minutes was really long enough to even make an observation for the condition of the plugs but I didn’t want to mess them up. I would post pictures but not sure the best way on this site.

I think now I will check for leaking injectors by testing them with methods I’ve found online. Also will check the ignition wires while running with a timing light to see if there’s any bad patterns in the coils. And also will check the valve clearance as iang suggested. When I get the time of course which will probably not be until sat-sun.

It seems so close, yet so far. I can possibly post a video of the motor running and what it’s doing if you guys think that would be something worth doing. Thanks again, hopefully I’ll find something this weekend.
 
What year is your BF50D? I’ve fixed a few issues on mine, and the last thing seems to be a small skip, and shake at idle! I was thinking fuel injectors? Was your valves out of spec?
Thanks.
 
Melloreel said:
What year is your BF50D? I’ve fixed a few issues on mine, and the last thing seems to be a small skip, and shake at idle! I was thinking fuel injectors? Was your valves out of spec?
Thanks.
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Thank you Mello, I’d love any and all of your suggestions. It is a 2010 year model. And I got sick friday night and am just now getting over it so I was in bed all damn weekend. This weekend I will be checking it over once again and will report back will valve clearance, if any injectors are leaky etc.
 
SaltTime said:
Thank you Mello, I’d love any and all of your suggestions. It is a 2010 year model. And I got sick friday night and am just now getting over it so I was in bed all damn weekend. This weekend I will be checking it over once again and will report back will valve clearance, if any injectors are leaky etc.
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Well I hope you get to feeling better, and get your issue resolved soon! I’ll just follow along here. Good luck :)
 
Melloreel said:
What year is your BF50D? I’ve fixed a few issues on mine, and the last thing seems to be a small skip, and shake at idle! I was thinking fuel injectors? Was your valves out of spec?
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Do your valve clearance, it's quick and easy and it will improve idle quality. Intake 010" ex 12"
 
Ok fellas, made a little progress. I believe the big issue now is all 3 injectors are leaking by. I used an inline spark plug indicator light on each plug wire for each cylinder and could not notice any noticeable bad patterns or misfires. The more I was testing with the motor running the darker my plugs were getting and it wasn't taking long. "these were brand new plugs"

The previous plugs were absolutely black but i just thought this was from sitting at the previous owners home and from him constantly trying to get the engine running with that bad fuel pump, but the motor was indeed running rich I believe in each cylinder.

I was able to come to the leaky injector conclusion by taking the intake manifold off while leaving the fuel hose to the fuel rail hooked up and turning the key to the "on" position and letting it prime and watching the injector tips. Each and every time I'd see small bubbles leaching out and a puddle would for rather quickly on the tips. Rather than try and clean them I'm just going to bite the bullet and order new one. $250 but hey if it gets this motor running I'll be fine with that. Does this seem like the right thing to do in your opinions?

I was also able to figure out how to pull the codes on the motor and the first time I guess it had quite a few, I tried to decipher them and write them down but I just couldn't figure out the patterns it was showing. So I went ahead and erased them with the clear procedure and ran the motor for 6-7 minutes and went through the jumper wire diagnostic procedure once again and now the diagnostic light just stays on....Not sure if its supposed to turn off or stay on, so if you have any information on that please share it.

And also iang, I will absolutely be checking the valve clearance once I get the new injectors in. The way these plugs were turning color so fast it seemed to point to a fuel issue and I hope my assumption was correct. My dad is a professional mechanic and hes out of town right now and I kind of dont feel comfortable messing with the valve settings without him here. I understand how to do it but I also know that alot of things can be damaged if not done correctly. So when hes back we will be checking and setting them, thanks again.

I will be updating until I get this thing running right, I'm hoping that something in this thread can maybe help someone else with future similar issues because it can be frustrating and expensive. Probably will have the parts next weeked or sometimes thereafter.

Also thanks mello, I am finally feeling better. Hate being sick.
 
SaltTime said:
Ok fellas, made a little progress. I believe the big issue now is all 3 injectors are leaking by. I used an inline spark plug indicator light on each plug wire for each cylinder and could not notice any noticeable bad patterns or misfires. The more I was testing with the motor running the darker my plugs were getting and it wasn't taking long. "these were brand new plugs"

The previous plugs were absolutely black but i just thought this was from sitting at the previous owners home and from him constantly trying to get the engine running with that bad fuel pump, but the motor was indeed running rich I believe in each cylinder.

I was able to come to the leaky injector conclusion by taking the intake manifold off while leaving the fuel hose to the fuel rail hooked up and turning the key to the "on" position and letting it prime and watching the injector tips. Each and every time I'd see small bubbles leaching out and a puddle would for rather quickly on the tips. Rather than try and clean them I'm just going to bite the bullet and order new one. $250 but hey if it gets this motor running I'll be fine with that. Does this seem like the right thing to do in your opinions?

I was also able to figure out how to pull the codes on the motor and the first time I guess it had quite a few, I tried to decipher them and write them down but I just couldn't figure out the patterns it was showing. So I went ahead and erased them with the clear procedure and ran the motor for 6-7 minutes and went through the jumper wire diagnostic procedure once again and now the diagnostic light just stays on....Not sure if its supposed to turn off or stay on, so if you have any information on that please share it.

And also iang, I will absolutely be checking the valve clearance once I get the new injectors in. The way these plugs were turning color so fast it seemed to point to a fuel issue and I hope my assumption was correct. My dad is a professional mechanic and hes out of town right now and I kind of dont feel comfortable messing with the valve settings without him here. I understand how to do it but I also know that alot of things can be damaged if not done correctly. So when hes back we will be checking and setting them, thanks again.

I will be updating until I get this thing running right, I'm hoping that something in this thread can maybe help someone else with future similar issues because it can be frustrating and expensive. Probably will have the parts next weeked or sometimes thereafter.

Also thanks mello, I am finally feeling better. Hate being sick.
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I’m glad you got better! Now back to work on this mystery motor issue :) I’ll be following along as I think we’re both at the same point. Injectors , and valve adjustment. Keep us posted!
 
Thought you said you had serviced the injectors, I'm guessing now you did the youtube clean, not a fan of that, espeacially when they are playing up as a result of stale fuel. A sonic clean would fix them but go ahead a buy new one's , they'll make a big difference. Also just in case, make sure your thermostat isn't stuck open, that'll cause more problems
 
iang6766 said:
Thought you said you had serviced the injectors, I'm guessing now you did the youtube clean, not a fan of that, espeacially when they are playing up as a result of stale fuel. A sonic clean would fix them but go ahead a buy new one's , they'll make a big difference. Also just in case, make sure your thermostat isn't stuck open, that'll cause more problems
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I don’t want to hijack his thread, but since we are both having similar problems I thought it might help us both! Are “Keinen Injectors” OEM? Also when I pull valve cover should I go ahead and order gasket first? Are the old ones reusable? Also does it need the 3 bond as manual calls for. I only want to fix it once, so whatever I have to do.
Thanks.
 
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