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2006 BF135 its still messing up and timing

S

Seamullets

New member
Wanted to see if this sounds right, I changed all the filters and the oil in the BF135 and it was still going in slow mode, no alarm was going off. I took it to someone who supposedly had a computer and said he could test it. Turned out he lied and charged a thousand dollars to change the plugs and clean out the vapor canistor and put a fuel pump isolater and 7 or 8 o rings and sent the injectors to be cleaned. I finally got it back this past thursday, today would of been 2 weeks. We called him and told him it was still messing up and he tried lying his way out and told my wife there was an inch and a half of sand in my 12 gallon portable tank and there was not because i clean it out before i use it every time, Two of the injectors were bad according to the print out he showed us and had all 4 cleaned and the two bad ones fixed. Tried to go fishing so i could get back to work seeing how i hadnt been in almost 2 weeks because of the fella keeping it and not touching it till last monday. Yesterday we finally got it on a computer and it said the vtec solenoid was not opening and closing like it should, They said they were gonna see what they could find out, Mean time this morning i found the service manual for my 135 on line and downloaded it, turns out the 135 has the spool valve assembly and not the vtec solenoid. took it off and the screen was stopped up took it and cleaned it up and put it back and tried it was still making a noise and slow mode is still kicking in, came home and cleaned it again and ran it and still heard it, could hear the valve opening and closing but still heard the noise. took the inpection plate off the crank case cover and took the cam chain tensioner out and found it had 3 teeth that look like they are about wore off and that is where it sounded like the noise is coming from. Also the crankshaft pulley is rubbing the chain case cover and the cpk sensor. Any idea why it might be doing that? And How do you set the timing on this motor. Can't afford to take it to any body to leave it for them to work on, Gonna have to do it my self, and the green light comes on when you first crank it up and not sure how long its staying on when i ran it today on the water, but when i hooked up the flush and it idled it stayed on.:confused:
 
Is the pulley rubbing the chain case or could the rubbing be from a loose timing chain? You definitely need to change your tensioner, probably your chain and plastic guides....if everything was jumping around in there.

The good news is that you have the Service Manual. You will have to remove the crankshaft pulley and the complete chain cover if you already have not done so.

The timing chain has marks on it that match up to points on the cam and crankshaft pulleys. You have to take the chain all the way off to line up the marks. To check the timing, the cam and the crankshaft have alignment marks that you can check independently of the marks on the chain.

You should also make sure that the oil lubricating tube (very small tube in the chain case) is clear so oil is passing through it.

Now....once you have your noisy chain or out of time situation fixed, you may have found the problem. If the motor was out of time, it may do unusual things. However, this motor has a knock sensor and it is very possible that the noise from the pounding chain could have activated the knock sensor, thus interrupting the ignition......just a thought.

Mike

PS. This is also an opportunity to check/change your thermostats. Pay close attention to how the sealant needs to be applied to the chain case cover when you put things back together.

If you are in the USA, you can rent the tool to help you remove the crankshaft pulley from O Reilly's.
 
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You said " Also the crankshaft pulley is rubbing the chain case cover and the cpk sensor".
This is a typical symptom of a worn out crankshaft thrust bearing, causing runability problems due to the erratic signals from the shorting Crank Position Sensor to the ECU.
So check for excessive crankshaft endfloat gently with a lever under the crank pulley & compare with specifications.
Obviously this is in addition to what Mike has said.

Bob
 
The computer only shows bad sensors or if sensors are out of range. Mechanical failures (breakage) or fuel issues normally will not show up directly in Dr. H. You see those problems in poor performance of the engine.

If your green light happens to be going out when the engine fails, it normally should give you an audible alert and will normally set an oil alert message that Dr. H will see.

Make sure that your audible alert is working.....you should hear it beep twice when you turn your keyswitch to on....before you start the motor.

Mike
 
Hondadude I got a question, I found the cam chain tensioner at auto zone for 40.00, wonder what the chances are of finding the spool valve aftermarket to?
 
Never looked into aftermarket parts for critical items like timing chains, tensioners, etc. My gut tells me to beware. I much rather take on the customer's unhappiness with the cost of the repair, than to deal with their anger when the motor has a catastrophic failure during their long planned vacation.

Mike
 
Pretty sure my motor is really messed up, bobmech i finally got round to it today and checked the play with a screw driver under the crankshaft pulley and it came up a 1/4 of an inch.
 
1700 is 170 hours per year, which is above average, more likely cause might have been a lack of clean lubrication at some point in its past.

You have seen other evidence of poor maintenance practice.
Art
 
Well its on a commercial boat so it would have more hours, My 50 is 2003 and theres no telling how many hours are on it and its still just as quiet as the day i got it. I think thier big motors aren't any good. Here it is Christmas and I've got a broke down boat and no money from working on it.
 
This is going to display my eternal optimism....is it possible that someone at some point in the past had the crankshaft pulley off and when they put it back on....did not torque the bolt to the 181 lbs required and the bolt has just backed out?


Mike
 
I'm not sure, I've tried to back it out with an impact gun and it wouldn't budge, Not sure what to do at this point. I've been forced to put my father inlaws old 150 carburated mariner on for now and its about to eat me out of house and home, cant afford to run it, i idled the other mornin from 530 to a little after 9 and burned a 12 gallon tank dry. Aint no way i can afford to run that gas hog and make a living to. Mike do ya think i could get away with changing the bearings and setting the timing and the motor last?
 
That is a good question. You will have to disassemble and see what the problem really is. Disassemble a piece at a time (like pealing an onion) and check as you go. Hopefully, you find the issue before you get too far.

I think, once you split the case open, the problem will show itself.

Mike
 
Seamullets said:
Wanted to see if this sounds right, I changed all the filters and the oil in the BF135 and it was still going in slow mode, no alarm was going off. I took it to someone who supposedly had a computer and said he could test it. Turned out he lied and charged a thousand dollars to change the plugs and clean out the vapor canistor and put a fuel pump isolater and 7 or 8 o rings and sent the injectors to be cleaned. I finally got it back this past thursday, today would of been 2 weeks. We called him and told him it was still messing up and he tried lying his way out and told my wife there was an inch and a half of sand in my 12 gallon portable tank and there was not because i clean it out before i use it every time, Two of the injectors were bad according to the print out he showed us and had all 4 cleaned and the two bad ones fixed. Tried to go fishing so i could get back to work seeing how i hadnt been in almost 2 weeks because of the fella keeping it and not touching it till last monday. Yesterday we finally got it on a computer and it said the vtec solenoid was not opening and closing like it should, They said they were gonna see what they could find out, Mean time this morning i found the service manual for my 135 on line and downloaded it, turns out the 135 has the spool valve assembly and not the vtec solenoid. took it off and the screen was stopped up took it and cleaned it up and put it back and tried it was still making a noise and slow mode is still kicking in, came home and cleaned it again and ran it and still heard it, could hear the valve opening and closing but still heard the noise. took the inpection plate off the crank case cover and took the cam chain tensioner out and found it had 3 teeth that look like they are about wore off and that is where it sounded like the noise is coming from. Also the crankshaft pulley is rubbing the chain case cover and the cpk sensor. Any idea why it might be doing that? And How do you set the timing on this motor. Can't afford to take it to any body to leave it for them to work on, Gonna have to do it my self, and the green light comes on when you first crank it up and not sure how long its staying on when i ran it today on the water, but when i hooked up the flush and it idled it stayed on.:confused:
Click to expand...

I was curious of all your problems with this motor so checked some of your posts. Your problem I think you said started with the engine slowing down and the rev limiter kicking in? Rev limiter? How do you know it was the rev limiter? To me that sounds like a classic case of no gear lube in the lower unit. Engine starts to bog under load and everyone blames the engine. If that motor runs good at idle it certainly could be the drive train. You said it got stuck in gear right? I would get stuck in gear too if I was binding against another gear. I could be way wrong but you can easily check if I am right. Sorry if I am way off base, but if you haven't checked your lower unit you might want to.

This same problem has come up on a few other forums and most every time it was lower unit all along.
 
well the reson i'm pretty sure it was the rev limiter is the motor would cut back on the rpms and would surge like a stopped up fuel filter, and the lower unit wouldn't make it knock in the top end around the crank. I wish it was that simple
 
Seamullets said:
well the reson i'm pretty sure it was the rev limiter is the motor would cut back on the rpms and would surge like a stopped up fuel filter, and the lower unit wouldn't make it knock in the top end around the crank. I wish it was that simple
Click to expand...

Actually an engine knocks like crazy when it is fighting for its life. My dad's rototiller sounded awful as it ground to a halt and I heard the same from other guys with boat motors too. It would start right up and run for about 5 minutes until the gears got hot again. It will surge and do all kinds of fun stuff. Well anyway, check the lower unit oil just for fun.
 
Well Seamullets, did you get a chance to check the lower unit? Every symptom you had tells me all along it was just the lower gear case binding up. Fishing line wrapped into the prop tearing up the seal is usually the start of the problem. See it all the time in my neck of the woods.
 
The same symptoms from another post, Root cause, lower unit gear lube:

I picked up a used 2003 Honda 9.9 to go fishing with my kids. The motor starts and runs good but once it warms up (5-10 min) it will not run at full throttle and bogs down as if it is running out of fuel. I have changed the fuel filter, fuel, plugs, oil. It will run fine up to about 1/2 throttle, but after that it lays down and doesn't give much power. I am thinking fuel pump or carburetor problem? I'm new to boating, so any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
I have seen this reaction to a diagnosis on forums a lot. That they get it figured out with our help and then run off into the night, not sharing with others what it ended up being. Not sure if it is embarrassment of spending large sums of money needlessly, or they got what they wanted and on they go. I could have been wrong but with a non reply from seamullets we can only guess that I was right. I see it as the carburetor cure. When a motor acts up, it's gotta be the carb so lets go to that first and screw that up too.

So lesson learned is if motor starts to bog after warming up and in gear, check your lower unit gear lube condition. Quick easy check is to take it out of gear and try running it. Remember that it will run good in gear until the gears get hot, about 2-5 minutes, then act up.
 
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dunl said:
The same symptoms from another post, Root cause, lower unit gear lube:

I picked up a used 2003 Honda 9.9 to go fishing with my kids. The motor starts and runs good but once it warms up (5-10 min) it will not run at full throttle and bogs down as if it is running out of fuel. I have changed the fuel filter, fuel, plugs, oil. It will run fine up to about 1/2 throttle, but after that it lays down and doesn't give much power. I am thinking fuel pump or carburetor problem? I'm new to boating, so any help would be greatly appreciated!
Click to expand...
Really appreciate your tip on symptoms of a "gear oil" problem. :cool:

Now it sounds like you are asking for ideas on your "...above half throttle..." issue.

For that please start a New Thread (see [+ Post New Thread] box near the top of Sub Forums).

There are a couple 'Real Experts' here who are generous with their time and knowledge and write really well to share their expertise.

Problem is with your question kind of buried here at the bottom of a very long thread, it's likely they never spotted your question. It's well worth a new thread.

I do agree with you that it's seldom for members to provide followup after a solution provided has (or has not) solved their issue. Can send another member off on a wild goose chase after searching their problem, seeing a possible solution at end of a thread and naturally assuming that it might work for them.
Art
 
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