volvo spc cone cluch stuck

[panzerjd]

I have a 1993 volvo sp-c out drive unit that gets stuck when in gear and then you cannot restart the engine because you cannot return to neutral. I removed the shifter and the cone clutch is stuck cannot move for or rev. A few light taps will return it to neutral but in the water this is difficult . Any thoughts

 

[RicardoMarine]

Bronze sliding sleeve with steel shift shoe....... or steel sliding sleeve with bronze-clad shift shoe?
Any signs of water intrusion?

 

[panzerjd]

Bronze sliding sleeve with steel shift shoe....... or steel sliding sleeve with bronze-clad shift shoe?
Any signs of water intrusion?

Thanks for responding. I can't say for sure but it looks like steel with bronze-clad. What happens is when you go fast then slow to the no wake zone and sometimes the engine stalls if you idle too long and if you stall in gear the cone sleeve locks up into the gear reciever. you cannot move the prop foward or backward to free it I then have to jump in the water and with a little brass hamer tap the shifter mechinism while jiggling the prop to free it up. The boat only has 300 hours on it. I don't think it should be worn out yet. What do you think
Tom

 

[RicardoMarine]

Tom, I can't explain your engine staling, but I can give you a few ideas on the cone clutch assembly.
In/around the "C" drives, Volvo went from the standard bronze sliding sleeve to a steel sliding sleeve and coated gear cups.

With either style sliding sleeve, metallic debris that has become lodged onto the sleeve surface can/may cause it to remain engaged and freeze up, so to speak, into one of the gear cups.
The fix with the bronze sleeve is a very careful cleaning of the oil grooves, and then a very careful lapping of the sleeve into each respective gear cup.
Here's an early bronze sliding sleeve transmission that has been disassembled.
As you can see, the gear cups are just shinny polished steel....... No coating.

With the all steel sliding sleeve, the gear cups are coated with a special blend of friction material.
These cannot be lapped!
However, the sliding sleeve oil grooves can be cleaned, and in some cases this may solve the issue.

Here's a steel sleeve and one driven gear/cup.
While you cannot see the cup surface, it will be coated with what would appear to be a black oxide looking substance.
Note the small oil grooves.

There is no Volvo Penta procedure listed for lapping the bronze sleeve. I suppose they want us to purchase a new gear set/sliding sleeve.

At minimum, you'll need to pull the transmission and disassemble it so that the two driven gears, vertical shaft and sliding sleeve can be removed, and the cups and sleeve surfaces inspected.
All of this can be done without any re-shimming if you keep track of where all shims are now.
It's actually a pretty straightforward procedure for someone with a decent level of mechanical skills.

BTW, these transmissions will ship in the USPS flat rate box for around $16 each way.
I do this work for people who are not near a V/P repair facility.

 

[panzerjd]

Tom, I can't explain your engine staling, but I can give you a few ideas on the cone clutch assembly.
In/around the "C" drives, Volvo went from the standard bronze sliding sleeve to a steel sliding sleeve and coated gear cups.

With either style sliding sleeve, metallic debris that has become lodged onto the sleeve surface can/may cause it to remain engaged and freeze up, so to speak, into one of the gear cups.
The fix with the bronze sleeve is a very careful cleaning of the oil grooves, and then a very careful lapping of the sleeve into each respective gear cup.
Here's an early bronze sliding sleeve transmission that has been disassembled.
As you can see, the gear cups are just shinny polished steel....... No coating.

With the all steel sliding sleeve, the gear cups are coated with a special blend of friction material.
These cannot be lapped!
However, the sliding sleeve oil grooves can be cleaned, and in some cases this may solve the issue.

Here's a steel sleeve and one driven gear/cup.
While you cannot see the cup surface, it will be coated with what would appear to be a black oxide looking substance.
Note the small oil grooves.

There is no Volvo Penta procedure listed for lapping the bronze sleeve. I suppose they want us to purchase a new gear set/sliding sleeve.

At minimum, you'll need to pull the transmission and disassemble it so that the two driven gears, vertical shaft and sliding sleeve can be removed, and the cups and sleeve surfaces inspected.
All of this can be done without any re-shimming if you keep track of where all shims are now.
It's actually a pretty straightforward procedure for someone with a decent level of mechanical skills.

BTW, these transmissions will ship in the USPS flat rate box for around $16 each way.
I do this work for people who are not near a V/P repair facility.

Thanks for the gold mine of info. What I did up to this point is to remove the shifting actuator and on the casting where the dowel pin slides against I gently filed and burnished the sliding surface and polished the pin and yesterday it didn't stick. maybe the little bumps in the sliding surface was causing it a hard shifting and when finally the shift the gas and rpm were too high and it would slam more or less into gear causing it to bind. I definitely have the steel sleeve set up. Could you give me the length of the oil dipstick over all length I can't find mine and will have to make one. Also do you sell parts? a shifting cover mine is at the bottom of the sea.
Tom

 

[ashewitt]

I have what sounds like the extact same problem. I was wondering if you could contact me or post an update to let me know if the fix lasted. any other direction would be appreciated.

 

[LundySykes]

Bronze sliding sleeve with steel shift shoe....... or steel sliding sleeve with bronze-clad shift shoe?
Any signs of water intrusion?

Ricardo

I am baffled by what my Volvo MS3C transmission did yesterday, Sept 1.

Tranny has about 2,500 hrs on a very well maintained boat.

There have previously been no transmission/clutch trouble signs such as slipping, hesitation, noise, etc.

I pulled into my regular marina here in Paris, France on July 9.

No problems.

Had no occasion to move or start boat until yesterday.

Warmed up engine, and ready to back out of slip, and no engagement of clutch/sliding sleeve. This is a 1986 trans.

I get nothing in forward or reverse. Not the slightest indication of the clutch trying to engage. No movement however slight of drive shaft. Nothing was touched from July 9 until I started up yesterday.

I went back and checked my cables, and observed the motion of rocker for the eccentric piston. Checked oil level.

Could the sliding sleeve be hung up in such a way that the piston can not move it to engage the gear cup?

I am considering pulling the top cover next to see if I can observe what the sliding sleeve is doing.

Any suggestions/thoughts?

Lundy Sykes
M/V Bodecia

 

[RicardoMarine]

..............

Ricardo ..........................

Could the sliding sleeve be hung up in such a way that the piston can not move it to engage the gear cup?
Unlikely. However, it is possible that the shift shoe is broken.

I am considering pulling the top cover next to see if I can observe what the sliding sleeve is doing.
Removing the top cover will only gain you access to the upper driven gear bearing.

Any suggestions/thoughts?
Drain the gear oil and remove the eccentric piston housing (disconnect linkage, and remove the four fasteners).
This will allow you to observe the shift shoe and the sliding sleeve.

Lundy Sykes
M/V Bodecia

 

[LundySykes]

Thanks for the prompt reply!

Here is something that has just occurred to ms.

When the cable operates the control lever that moves the eccentric piston shaft, the spring loaded shaft is pushed out away from the transmission housing.

When it goes back to neutral, the shaft moves back in against the housing.

My thought is that because the slider is likely stuck, the dog at the end of the eccentric piston shaft that engages the slider is being forced away from the slider against the anti rattle spring that holds it in place, rather than staying seated in the slider groove and moving the slider up or down.

What I propose to try is to shoot some WD40 throuh the oil fill in hopes of getting some onto the slider shaft, and then gently tapping on the piston cable lever in hopes if dislodging the slider while gently moving the control cable.

The 7 week layup might explain how the slider got stuck one the shaft.

Your other suggestions are invaluable, and removal of the eccantric piston shaft to come at the slider from the side is my next step if tapping, etc. doesn't work.

Thank you!!!!!!

Lundy Sykes

 

[RicardoMarine]

This shift shoe’s shaft is able to move in and out of the eccentric piston. It is also spring loaded.
This spring not only holds the shoe into the sliding sleeve, it also holds the eccentric piston detent into its cam area.
The cam ramps down during gear selection. The down ramping causes the piston to extend or protrude from its housing.
In other words, it is normal to see the piston move in and out while changing gears.

.

 

[LundySykes]

Thanks for the clarification!

Would the piston lever move through its arc with the control cable if the slider was stuck? In other words, would a stuck slider keep the piston from moving?

I'm planning to pull the eccentric piston assembly tomorrow morning.

You have made my day with your help, because at least I now have some order of battle and am not flying blind.

thanks again!!

Lundy Sykes

 

[sandkicker]

.... the slider fits into the shift eccentric on a pinlike extension... if the pin shears, eccentric will move but no shift.

 

[RicardoMarine]

...........................

Thanks for the clarification!

Would the piston lever move through its arc with the control cable if the slider was stuck? In other words, would a stuck slider keep the piston from moving?
If the shift shoe is in place and if the shaft area is not broken, yes!

Here are a few images that I've put together over the years.
Some may help, some my not.

These are for the stern drive..... the MS-3 is extremely similar.