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Volvo Penta 145A Gas Marine Engine

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rgoxn

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"I have a 18ft tri-hull equipp

"I have a 18ft tri-hull equipped with a Volvo Penta 145A, 4 cyl, gas engine and a Volvo Penta 280 stern drive. Ever since I purchased my boat in the early 1990's I have had a problem with getting the engine to fire up. I take it to a lake but have a awful time trying to get the engine to start. I tried spraying the "starting fluid" in the two carbs and that helped a sometimes. Now even the starting fluid does'nt help. The engine fires on a couple of stroke then it dies. I tried pumping the gas with the hand accelerator but no awail. If some one has the same engine and experienced the same type of problem how did you solve it. I have taken it to a volvo authorised service center, but it just cost me money and the problem still stays there. How can I find a solution?"
 
"What did the service guys do?

"What did the service guys do? Might give us a hint as to what in might not be. Assume you have good compression and your ignition is working? Those carbs have no choke, so you keep them running with the accelerator pumps till it wants to stay running. This is not a turn key motor- you have to keep it going till it warms up- usually a very short time- but you do need to baby it alittle.

If your starting fluid isn't doing any thing, and you can see fuel squirted thru the accelerator nozzel I would guess your flooded. When it does start, do you get a big black cloud? If yes, shut off the fuel supply and re-start till it runs dry and blows a big flame out the carbs. Now do a re start and see if it improves, if so have the carbs re built and sync and linked."
 
"Thanks for your response! I h

"Thanks for your response! I have a few questions to help me clarify your response.
1) Can I start the engine while the boat is trailered out of water?
2) Since I am sitting at the wheel starting the engine I am facing the opposite direction and the carbs are covered I have no way to know whether the fuel has arrived at the carb.
3) Can I open/remove the Carb Covers and squirt the starting fuel into the carb while I am trying to start the engine? If so I can get someone to turn on the ignition switch while I squirt the starting fluid and watch if fuel finally arrives at the carb from the tank.
4) Is there a easy way for me to pump (albeit manually) the fuel line to make sure the fuel is flowing into the carb and there are no air bubbles etc in the line to the carbs?

Since I don't use the boat very often, maybe the fuel line is full of air instead of fuel and since it is about 4 to 6 feet of fuel line from the tank to the engine the fuel has a hard time getting to the carbs?

Appreciate your help on this subject.

PS The repair service just changed the plugs, ditributor parts and said it was working fine. Now with the economy in doldrums most of the service shops have closed down so my choice are limited!"
 
"You will need to get water to

"You will need to get water to the coolant system- I used a 55 gallon drum cut to fit the back of the boat when I was testing boats- however there is a special "Volvo only" flush attachment for the garden hose which works quite well.

You do have to re move the flame arrester to view the carbs. Care should be observed when looking down the throats of a running Volvo as they can have a vicious lean pop coming back from the engine if given certain circumstances. When I was working on them, I would have a remote switch hooked to the starter,-- a jumper to the (+) side of the coil--disconnect the throttle cable so I could sit next to the engine and run it.

A good step for this engine is to install clear hose to the raw water pump and the bell housing. This will tell you if there is an air leak in the coolant system.

I have spliced an outboard motor primer bulb into fuel lines to make sure it is getting fuel. It serves 2 purposes- one to prime the carbs and see if the float valves are holding (primer bulb gets firm) and two is to see if the tank vent and pick up are working as any failure will suck the primer bulb flat. This installation does not interfere with the running of the engine if you use the primer for the larger outboards.

If the boat shop didn't do a compression test, I would do that. Check your ignition wires as they should be solid core not carbon resistance wire.

Hope this helps. Let us know if you have more questions."
 
"Thanks for your excellent sug

"Thanks for your excellent suggestions. I guess I could us the primer bulb before firing up the ignition just to see if the fuel is getting to the carbs. Then close up the carbs and try to start the engine.

Although I understand the requirement for the cooling water, is there a electrical "cutoff" switch in the cooling water system that would not allow me to start the motor? Or it is just a precaution?

Also must the stern drive be all the way down and locked in place before the engine will start or will the engine will start regardless as to where the stern drive is? Obviously, when starting the engine the prop is disengaged!

Again thanks for your input!"
 
"I will let others respond to

"I will let others respond to your other questions, but with regards to your question if the stern drive must be all the way down before the engine will start...yes, the engine will start but to avoid undue stress on the u-joints, do not start your engine unless it is fully down and locked."
 
"A comment about the primer bu

"A comment about the primer bulb.
It may be a practical solution and work, but.
I'm not quite sure it is 'coast guard approved'. Most of the bulbs are not 'certified' to use in a 'closed compartment', but should only be used in an outboard engine OPEN motor well."
 
"Funny enough, Morten, I was h

"Funny enough, Morten, I was having exactly the same thought when I read William's comment...."
 
You know- I never gave the coa

You know- I never gave the coast guard a second thought when adding those primers. Never had a complaint though. As they were always under vacuum I never had one leak fuel. Will take it under consideration.
 
"William, my major concern wou

"William, my major concern would be fire rather than leaks. Somehow, I don't think the bulbs are fire rated...."
 
I agree- just once you get a f

I agree- just once you get a fire going??? Saw a MC burn to the waterline in Va. AFTER they put the fire out with 2 extinguishers. And every body was patting each other on the back. --But then again maybe They had a primer bulb on board???
 
"Bulb end pieces are normally

"Bulb end pieces are normally in plastic! Ever seen an inboard gas engine with plastic fuel connectors/nipples? Does not help much with CG approved hoses and clamps, or bulb itself.
You may get away with it if the bulb is in a separate ventilated compartment sealed off from engine room, but that might be rather inconvenient.
However in case of a fire there would probably be 'no evidence' left."
 
"Excuse me, Willam G Moore Jr.

"Excuse me, Willam G Moore Jr., Can you explain a little more about your post #99 when you talked about installing the bulb on the fuel line?

How does the bulb get sucked flat?

And when pumping it to check to see if the float valves are holding does that mean I would pump it into the carb, through the pump and it would stop flowing through the carb and cause pressure build up? Indicating proper operation.

I have a 145a and I need a coil. Can I go to the auto parts store to get one? Do you know which one to get? I actually want to get a condenser too, can you help me with some part #'s for these two items.

Also, I hear about an oil cooler on these volvos. Am I supposed to have one on my 145a? I have looked and do not see anything like the descriptions I have read on this discussion board.

By the way, I have not posted on here in about a year since my boat has been up to par for that long thanks to the advice I have recieved on this discussion board. Thanks to all that have helped."
 
Wydel; When used as a diagnost

Wydel; When used as a diagnostic tool the primer bulb will indicate a plugged gas tank to fuel pump problem as a blockage there will cause the primer bulb to be sucked flat.

When pumping up -the fuel from the primer will go right thru the fuel pump all the way to the float valves. If the valves are stuck open - or the fuel pump has a hole in the diaphragm-- the primer will just keep pumping- which gives you a chance to see what is malfunctioning.

I have used Napa's high out put epoxy coil on boats with great success. You will need to match it to the resistance system. Do you have an external resister or one built into the coil (the resistance coil is usually marked)

Sorry but no part #'s. Maybe "El P" can jump in here.

If you have the fresh water cooling you probably have no oil cooler.
 
"Ok, I do not know about the e

"Ok, I do not know about the external resistor. The coil I have has two poles and the coil out put to the distributor. Nothing on the outside, just a plastic cylinder. If I bring in the old coil they can probably tell what the resistance is right?

Thanks for getting back so quickly.

I posted above about some other issues. I am haveing a problem with my engine not starting after it gets hot, 170. I have run it just fine for a year without a thermostat, I'm in FL, and I just put one in. I ran it for about a half hour seemed to be doing the job of regulating the temp. so I stopped shut it off and it didn't start again untill it was completely cool down. SO my plan is to take the therm. back out and replace the coil and the solenoid. Sound like I'm on the right track?

You da man, thankss!"
 
"Thanks to all for all your th

"Thanks to all for all your thoughts and concerns. about the Bulb and the potential fire hazards etc. What is the next best thing I could do - Plan B?

From post # 132 I get the sense that there is a fuel pump already in the system, if so why the heck doesn't it send sufficient fuel to the carbs so the engine starts and stays that way like a regular auto engine? So do I have to change the fuel pump or get a more "powerful" one if there is such a thing for the volvo 145A.

Another comment I received said the problem was not with the fuel pump, but with the "choke". If the boat is not started for a while the fuel leaves the carbs and therefore I should have the carbs reconditioned etc. What are your thought on that aspect?. It seems to me that if I am pumping away at the accelerator trying to get the fuel into the carbs and go from a fully charged battery to almost 9 Volts, due to numerous tries and I also tried to put some starting fluid into the carb throats still without success somthing is really wrong.

Since I was not smelling fuel ( like from a flooded carb) I suspect the fuel is just not getting to the carbs or its an electrical problem e.g insufficient spark etc. But the spark plugs are almost new and show no "fouling"

OK So I waiting for my thing tank ( You expert out there) to help me put the boat in the water by Father's Day. Your assistance will be most appreciated. Thanks"
 
I would have done 3 things.
1

I would have done 3 things.
1: Double checked fuel lines from tank BOTTOM to engine for blockage and air leaks.
2: Pulled the carbs for a goooood cleaning.
3: Installed an electric fuel feed pump. (The Volvo original comes with a 'gold plated' price!!)

My guess is that the feed pump leaks back due to corroded/faulty valves.
 
"I have a boat with the same m

"I have a boat with the same motor/lower end combo you do, 145a/280. My motor is also hard to start due to a fuel problem. I'm not sure where its going yet but the fuel in the bowls of the carbs seems to disappear. (no external leaks). The pump on this motor is mechanical. It only pumps as the motor is turning over. So you have to crank the motor quite abit to fill the bowls on the carbs before it will fire. We installed a fuel primer ball as a test ;-) untill we could install a low pressure in-line electric pump. We just turn on the pump on for a few seconds before we start the engine to prime the carbs. And as someone said these carbs dont have chokes so you will have to run it at high rpm for a few minutes for the engine to warm up enough to run."
 
"I should correct myself. Whe

"I should correct myself. When I said to run the engine at high RPM to warm it up, what I meant to say is to run it at high idle (1500-2000 rpm)."
 
"Ok.firstly go back to basics.

"Ok.firstly go back to basics.I have had all the problems tou have had,and it normally comes down to setting !!!!!
make sure your points are set correctly
buy new points(dont clean up old ones and think thay are allright)
make sure your timming is correct.
make sure carbs a syncranised(with a vacume unit)
Start at the basic settings and you will find(like i did)
I had to rev the engine say (1500) for a few seconds (30) and if all settings are good it will idle perfect.if not you have another problem,but in most instances i found that if all is to specification you should not have a problem.I think that you have not set points correctly & timing.just a thought."
 
"Dear Experts

I learned tod

"Dear Experts

I learned today from the boat service shop that they were able to get the engine started, I am told the problem was a bad fuel pump. Assuming the boat will start eventually, I still like the proposal of installing a low pressure in line electric pump of some sort.(This starting problem seems to be chronic to this VP engine model) so can someone recommend an alternative partnumber and brand for this in line low pressure fuel pump to the "gold plated" Volvo ones?

Also since I am no mechanic, I need to understand how everything will work. First I need to turn on this new electric pump to get fuel into the carbs, then I need to turn it off and try to turn the engine. So that brings me to the question what if you forget to turn off the electric pump, will it flood the engine or is it wired so it has to be turned off before you can turn the engine on?

If I get lucky I will have a boat motor that starts this Father's Day weekend. I will let you know I did. But I am waiting for the info on the in line elect fuel pump.

Thanks all"
 
"R.Gul,
[b]Quote: "What

"R.Gul,
Quote: "What is the next best thing I could do - Plan B?"

The electric fuel pump has helped greatly on many of these 4 bangers..... some of the carbureted V-8's as well.

I don't buy from this company, but you can see this one is available for $112 through Jegs.
Universal & Marine Electric Fuel Pump
6 psi (max pressure) with 1/4'' NPT inlet/outlet
72gph free flow rate

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/100/180/180-P4389.gif"

Here is the same unit through Summit, same price.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Carter-P4389-Marine-Electric-Fuel-Pump-72gph-6psi-12v_W0QQitemZ370208614096QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item56322726d0&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318


Now, you need to know that you must have a circuit that is Ignition sourced to operate this USCG rated electric fuel pump.
However, you must also have a low oil pressure "shut-down" circuit to meet USCG requirements.
Due to this Low Oil Shut Down circuit, you must also incorporate a start by-pass in order for the pump to operate until oil pressure comes up.

This is the perfect scenario for an "over-ride" circuit powered by a "momentary" switch to prime your system that you have indicated is one of the possible issues that you'd like to solve.

Point being.... If you were to install an electric fuel pump, you must also install the appropriate shut down/by-pass systems along with it.

It is not all that difficult to do!

."
 
"In stead of the 'low oil

"In stead of the 'low oil pressure' shut down, he may use the field circuit in the alternator on this engine. That is a cheaper way of doing it.
The easiest is to make a jumper from yellow/red starter cable to activate pump when cranking, then a activation/run relay using alternator field as 'regulator' through relay. Engine stops, field goes to -, pump stops. Only material needed is the pump, relay and a foot or two of cable. Might be handy to make an 'emergency' circuit in case alternator fails. Pre-priming carbs with a separate circuit should not be needed."
 
"Morten, I'd have to think

"Morten, I'd have to think that through.... but I believe initially, I'd have to disagree on that.

I'd want this to be a stand-alone system and incorporate a N/O low oil pressure switch.
I'd want an igniton ON source to power a small C/D relay to power the pump.... placing no great load on the ignition circuit.
The relay primary circuit is the perfect connection for the starter motor by-pass as well.
(must use the R connection on the solenoid to prevent back feed.)

I'm not certain whether or not the USCG regs allow for an alternator to provide this anyway.

."
 
"You use the 'ignition on&

"You use the 'ignition on' source through the relay that gets activated by the change from - to + when alternator starts. Similar to how ignition works on the OMC Cobras.
The Yellow/red goes straight to the fuel-pump and will only activate during cranking, just like ignition on most V8.
There are two versions of instrument systems on that engine, one with oil-switch that grounds on 'no-oil' (warning light), and one with sensor and instruments. If already switch, he may use that, but probably still need a relay. Switch grounds when no-oil.
To my knowledge CG just demands that pump stops if engine stops! What I do not like about using the oil-switch is that You pull the amps all the way from engine -through panel and back to engine. Using the alternator, You go straight from alternator to pump -1 foot!"
 
"AS a clarification:

RE: &

"AS a clarification:

RE: "This starting problem seems to be chronic to this VP engine model".

Unless you are in the artic, any engine with a carb will exhibit this problem. When left idle for some period of time ( temp dependant) the gas in the carb bowl will evaporate. Makes no difference whose engine or the number of cylinders. My current 5.7L engine has a electric fuel pump with a shutoff circuit for no oil pressure. I installed a momentary push button at the helm that "shorts out" the oil pressure switch. To start the engine when its been idle a long time, I crank the engine until the oil pressure gauge kicks up for a second. I stop cranking the engine and then I push the momentary switch and hold it for a few (five) seconds. Engine usually starts right up after that."
 
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