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V6 Looper Block Deck Repair

D

daselbee

Advanced Contributor
"Hello all...
I have run into

"Hello all...
I have run into a problem while prepping my V6 1996 200 looper block for rebuild.
The block deck is heavily pitted. I see pits that are at least 1/4" deep, and one pit actually goes through to the water jacket.
I have read about guys using JBWeld, but that repair was much smaller.
So, I looked around, and found this stuff called HTS2000. It claims to be a high quality aluminum repair brazing material that you melt onto the material to be repaired using a torch, very similar to soldering. Here is the link.

[url=""]http://www.aluminumrepair.com/aluminum_repair.asp[/url]

If I filled up all these pits, using HTS2000, then had the deck surfaced, could this actually work?

The other alternative would be to get it TIG welded and then resurface.

Or will ANY of these two ideas work???!!!

The picture red arrows are the deepest pits. The yellow arrow points to a pinhole in a pit that goes through to the water jacket. The blue circle shows the CLOSEST any pitting gets to the cylinder sleeve (1/4"). The pitting is this bad around all the cylinders, on both banks.

[url=""]http://s718.photobucket.com/albums/ww181/daselbee/?action=view&current=DSCF1366a .jpg"[/url]

I would love to hear your thoughts on repairing this, and if anyone has used HTS2000...speak up please.

Thanks, Doug."
 
"Doug,
I haven’t used the HTS

"Doug,
I haven’t used the HTS2000 but I have used some of the first generation rod on some light aluminum repairs which worked out well. However, when I say light, I mean parts that were light in mass; they took the required heat quickly and easily. The instructions for using the HTS2000 include the following:

Step 2:
Heat the work surface (not the brazing rod) until the work surface is hot enough to melt the rod, just as you would if using a solder. DO NOT PUT THE ROD IN THE FLAME. You must bring the temperature of the base metal up to the melting point of the HTS—2000 Fluxless Brazing Rod. Open the pores of the work surface with heat for the rod to penetrate the surface.

And this note:

Note: Remember that the thicker the material, the longer it takes to reach the proper temperature. On heavier work or to save time, you can use oxygen acetylene. Always use a Rosebud tip or a neutral flame with oxygen acetylene. Do not put the rod in the direct flame while brazing with HTS—2000 Fluxless Brazing Rods.

Aluminums high rate of thermal conductivity and the mass of your block my require pre heating to achieve the necessary temperature of 717-737 Deg F to properly flow and bond the rod to the base metal.

If you give it a try let us know how it works out."
 
"Thanks Allan for the response

"Thanks Allan for the response.
If you notice, the pitting is in metal that is directly above the water jacket, and on an open deck block, this material is not even there.

I have studied the head gasket, and it seems that this is not a critical area at all. The head gasket has that blue bead of sealer on it, and the sealant is applied around bolt holes, and the existing water jacket holes...there does not appear to be a need for sealant where this pitting is located.

Still studying and thinking here...anyone else?"
 
"well you should try to stop a

"well you should try to stop any further damage to those areas.i dont think jb weld would be a good choice tho.i dont have any better ideas or products in mind.
do you have another block in better shape,
i dont remember exactly but did you buy an engine from fla and have probs with it"
 
"Yeah...hey Charles. This is

"Yeah...hey Charles. This is that engine. You remember well.
I went around with nicknack2 about divulging the name of the dealer...it is Universal Marine in Miami, by the way.
This engine has the pitting that I show in the pics, AND the crankshaft nose where the upper main bearing rides is all rusted and rough. So the crank is bad also.
All of this was almost impossible to detect unless the motor was torn down.

I am still questioning whether this is a problem or not. There is good metal all around the cyls, and where it is pitted, on open deck blocks, there is no metal there anyway....I really wonder.
The temps at that point shouldn't get to 175 degrees I would'nt think...so some sort of filler and sealer to slow continued decay might work."
 
"thats from running in salt ,i

"thats from running in salt ,i wonder if the proper anoides could help prevent anymore pitting.or direct it elsewhere."
 
"there are some cooling modifi

"there are some cooling modifications,that should be done,on that block...also,dont use factory pistons,or,reuse ur old ones.. wiseco pistons have been improved,for prob w/that eng.. u can read all the above,at mar-fab.com i think.. i use them..."
 
"Dough… “long time no see you”

"Dough… “long time no see you”... man can't believe you still having issues with the stuff you bought from Robert, is my understanding that he sold the shop, I still don’t know what year model is my motor, but I have got it to run much better, it is pushing 35 MPH at about 4700 RPMs( 3000 lbs loaded), still can’t get up to 5000sRPMms but I’m re doing the carbs today or tomorrow, they might be running rich at WOT, a guy name Alex bought Universal Marine, and I got $500 dollars refunded from him for the expenses I had on my motor(VRO, plugs, wires among others in what it was supposed to be a turn key motor) but thanks to all that I have learned so much stuff about my motor, I’m not 100% happy yet but I’m getting there I will be happy that day I find out what year and model is my power head, that would make things so much easier for me…"
 
"Nicknack...I noticed you were

"Nicknack...I noticed you were absent for a while.
Yes, old Robert wasn't too honest I guess.
This motor is the one I bought from him off EBay, but I am close enough to go to inspect it. So I did.
Running on muffs in his shop parking lot it seemed fine, with 110 comp all around, and an even idle.
So, I took a chance. $2700.00. Got it home, and due to my silly simple mistake, blew it up on straight gas...remember? Disabled the VRO, had two tanks, put 50:1 in the starboard tank, and forgot to switch the fuel valve over...stupid...

So now, it is torn down and I find that it was basically very worn out, with a bad crank, and a pitted block, and the cyls were .006 oversize from wear.

I bored it .020 over, got a "new" used crank, and then noticed the excessive pitting.

I have come to the conclusion that this pitting is not a real problem though. If you compare the pitted areas to an "open deck" block design, there ain't any metal there anyway. And the head gasket does not seal in the pitted area. I think filling it so that it does not get worse, or slows down the process, will work just fine. I don't think I need to weld it up and then surface the block deck. Just some high temp epoxy filler would do the trick, I THINK.....

But, probably wrong on this too.....

Hi, JWB. You have been silent for a while too...."
 
"sound like you are investiong

"sound like you are investiong lots of time and money on the motor, you may as well just weld it and resurface just for piece of mind... don't you think??? remember and you said it before a good re built will last you at least another 10 years...
do it once do it right..."
 
Good point. Very good point.

Good point. Very good point.
Running out of money....
There are very many pits...I am looking into a welder friend who may do it inexpensively.
 
Doug I would not use any putty

Doug I would not use any putty or melting alloy into the holes as it will never be a permenant repair.

You have two options from my experience.
1 scrap the block and get another
2 weld the hole and then have the block resleeved as required

If you weld it im sure there will be distortion on the original sleeve and or the possibility of the sleeve moving.
 
There's a complete V6 loop

There's a complete V6 looper powerhead on Ebay right now needing rebuild for $250. Says it has low compression on one cylinder. May be cheaper in the long run.
 
"Thx for all the responses. I

"Thx for all the responses. I have seen the looper p'head on e-bay, but it is too old. I can tell by the picture that it is pre 1993, and even though it is a looper p'head, it is not a finger-ported block. The new pistons I have will not work.
I have some more studying to do on this, and will post my "fix" for those who are interested.
Thanks again for the input."
 
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