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Tilt/Trim help needed

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Snooker1969

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I have a 1990 115 Johnson on a flats boat I just bought 2 weeks ago. The tilt/trim isnt working but the guy insists that it worked a a couple weeks prior. With the key on you can hit the switch up or down and nothing happens. No clicking from the 2 relays or anything. I have also,with the advice from several people, tried to bypass everything by running one wire from the negative battery terminal to one of the two tilt motor wires and a second wire from the positive terminal to the other tilt motor wire. The wires just got hot and nothing from the tilt motor. Tried reversing the wires and nothing. I was told that means the tilt motor is bad. I then purchased the new tilt motor and am attempting to change it. I am not a boat mechanic obviously but I am very mechanically inclined. I cant seem to get the motor to manually release so I can put it in the full up position. I have loosened the manual release screw but it still wont budge. What am I missing? I have the seloc book for the motor but according to it the motor should be able to be moved after turning the release screw. Any help here is greatly appreciated.
 
The PTT motor is a dual polarity electric motor. You must have BOTH battery wires connected to those two wires... NOT one battery wire to one electric motor wire, the other battery wire grounded. Reversing the two wires attached to the electric motor wires reverses the direction that the motor will turn. If it turns in one direction, it will most certainly turn in the other direction.

Check to see that you have 12v being applied to the RED wire of the PTT switch. There is no way the electric motor can operate via the PTT switch without the relays functioning.

Now, with the small battery jumper wires connected to the electric PTT motor wires as explained above, does the electric motor run?
 
Hi Joe,thank you for the help. I connected the battery jumper wires as you instructed and the tilt motor did nothing. I did however put 12v to the PTT switch and got a click from the relays which are brand new. So I may have a two fold issue?
 
Attaching both battery jumper wires to the two PTT electric motor wires and having the electric motor NOT function pretty much tells the tale that the electric motor is shot.

The relays clicking when you apply 12v to the RED PTT switch voltage supply wire indicates that either a voltage supply problem exists somewhere OR the unit is wired so that voltage is supplied to the PTT switch ONLY when the ignition key is ON... and the key wasn't turned on.
 
Yes thats what I figured due to the info I have read on iboats and here. I have the new tilt motor but I am unable to get the manual release to work. Turned the manual release screw and engine wont budge.
 
If your PTT unit is the type that has one center tilt cylinder and two trim rams, the manual release valve is within a hole located in the bottom side portion of the starboard transom bracket. If so, from a seated position, back that slotted valve out two (2) turns... and two (2) turns only so as to avoid having the valve sealing O Ring become damaged by the valve retaining snap ring. The engine should be able to be tilted unless there is unusual tightness in the steering/tilt tube area.
 
You are correct on the type of unit and I did turn the manual release screw 2 turns and the engine wont budge. Any ideas? Thank you in advance.
 
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Check to see if possibly there is still a mechanical lock setup (reverse lock) grabbing the tilt rod that is located in the holes near the bottom of the transom brackets. Other than that and possibly a very tight steering/tilt tube, you should be able to tilt the engine.
 
ok Joe, will do in the AM. I dont believe there is a "reverse lock" I looked for things like that but will look again. Is it possible a hydraulic problem(seal, valve...) is locking it up?
 
Snooker1969 said:
ok Joe, will do in the AM. I dont believe there is a "reverse lock" I looked for things like that but will look again. Is it possible a hydraulic problem(seal, valve...) is locking it up?
Click to expand...

There is one possibility, although I've never seen this cause exactly the problem you're having.....as follows:

(PTT Hydraulic Lockup)
(J. Reeves)


If the engine has been trailered without having both of the trim rams pulled in, or trailered without even having the engine being supported by the trailering support, it is possible for the PTT to encounter a hydraulic lock up. The slight up and down motion, when trailering allows over 1700 psi of oil pressure to build up on the wrong side of the oil pump. Since the oil pump cannot exceed that 1700 psi, the unit is effectively hydraulically locked into position (the elec motor runs and does nothing).


The proper method for trailering is to have the engine in a full tilt position and resting on the trailering support bracket, then have both trim rams pulled in to a point where the engine makes a jerking motion. At this point, immediately take your finger off of the PTT trim switch. Now, quickly and sharply, tap the PTT up button. This removes the vast majority of down hydraulic pressure but at the same time, the engine is solidly locked into position and cannot rock up and down.


(The Cure)
Have the engine in the up position and supported so that it cannot fall. Look straight at the PTT assy.... you will see what looks like a large slotted screw on the port (left) side of the PTT assy, but which is in fact a check valve. Remove that valve and what you find inside which is a shuttle valve, and a spring on each end of that shuttle valve.


After you've removed those items, look straight inside of that chamber. You'll be looking at the reverse side of another check valve. Look at the hole in the backside of the valve you removed. You will need a punch that will fit inside of that hole.


Now, place the punch inside of the hole in that check valve that is still in the unit, and tap it rather sharply with a hammer. It will take quite a rap but the idea is to unseat the valve to release the hydraulic pressure. Watch your eyes as when you do release the pressure, it will have a tendency to spray out somewhat.


After releasing the pressure, reassemble the shuttle valve, springs, and outer check valve. Fill the oil reservoir with PTT fluid, having the engine in the extreme full tilt position. That's it.
 
Thank you again Joe. I am guessing that is my problem. the tilt hasnt worked since i bought the boat a few weeks ago. When I picked up the boat it was already stuck in the down position(and still is stuck in the down position) which may be because it was trailered and transported incorrectly. My whole issue is that the engine is stuck in the down position and I cant get to the PTT assembly. I am not really equipped to remove the engine from the transom so if that is my only option I must take it to a mechanic. I thank you for all your help. Seems I have been taken advantage of by the man that sold me the boat. He restores boats and commercially fishes so I assumed he knew how to properly take care of a boat.
 
I read your latest post (#11). Somehow I have been misunderstood... In my latest possible explanation, the engine would have been stuck in the UP position, not the DOWN position.

This hydraulic lock problem raises its ugly head ONLY when the engine is trailered in the UP position and not locked down in that UP position. This allows the engine to jump up and down in a pumping scenario as one drives about that builds up more hydraulic pressure than the oil pump can deliver... and since this overload pressure is on the wrong side of the oil pump... the pump cannot overcome it.

However, since you state that the engine was trailered in the DOWN position, it's unlikely this condition could take place. As it stands, with the manual release valve turned two (2) full turns out, that should have released "all" of the hydraulic pressure within the PTT unit... and that applies in both directions.

Sometimes it take more than one man to lift the engine if the steering/tilt tube is jammed tightly on the transom brackets. However I"m sure that the seller knew that the PTT electric motor had problems.... how could he not?
 
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Ok Joe I will give it another shot this evening after work. I'll have a buddy give me a hand lifting. Must be a really tight steering tube as I am not a small guy(6'3" 220lb). Thanks so much for all your time here. I will keep you posted.
 
I'm in the West Palm Beach area. I was called in to work last night and just got home. Going to give it a try this evening. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks again Joe!
 
Hey Joe, good news...I got the motor up. It was just stiff on the steering tube I guess. Who knew I just had to growl at it a bit but got it up by myself. Now I just need to get the PTT assembly to lean out enough to get the tilt motor out. I do believe there is an electrical issue too as the relays wont click unless I put 12v to the red wire on the switch. I will keep you posted. As always, thanks so much for your time and advice.
 
update...had to use an unorthadox method to get to the PTT motor as the tilt tube pin would not budge but got the motor changed out. Just have to wire it up and mount all bolts back on the PTT assembly and 3 of the 4 transom to motor mount bolts. still believe there is an electrical issue as well. will keep you posted
 
Thank you Joe for all your help. I tracked down the wiring issue and now tilt/trim are working. Is it normal when the engine is all the way in the up position and you hit the down side of the switch but the two trim pistons retract all the way before the tilt will start retracting?
 
The engine lowers via gravity until it hits the trim rams, then hydraulic pressure takes over.

The problem you speak of is caused by the steering/tilt tube nuts being too tight OR a overly tightness there due to corrosion. Loosen one nut and with a piece of wood and large hammer, belt that steering/swivel bracket sideways a little, then grease the fittings.
 
Hey Joe, I have to go to North Carolina for 10 days for work. I will have to try that when I get back. I was looking at it though and I am unsure what the "steering/swivel bracket" is. I don't want to smacking the wrong part with a hammer :). By the way, are you located anywhere near me?
 
Snooker1969 said:
I am unsure what the "steering/swivel bracket" is. I don't want to smacking the wrong part with a hammer :). By the way, are you located anywhere near me?
Click to expand...

The "steering/swivel" bracket is the large portion that the steering tube goes thru (between the transom brackets)... the part that simply goes up and down with the engine when tilted... and that the engine turns/swivels on.

This part...................
432708_Grp.jpg
 
Lol...thanks Joe. I dont know why I was thinking something smaller. I followed your instructions and that was definitely the problem. It is better now but still sticks a bit when all the way up. Hopefully some use and frequent lube will loosen it up some more. It seems this boat was neglected quite a bit. I couldnt have done this without your constant advise. Thank you so much for your time. Im sure I will need some more help as I am now having to go through the whole engine. It was running fine before but not starting now. There are some obvious wiring issues and I am going to get a couple carb kits, plugs, plug wires etc... Thanks again for everything!
 
The problem is that corrosion forms between the plastic bushings and the bracket.------The extra material is the " white powder " or aluminum oxide if you will.The extra material now jams the pivot tube and lube will not take that away.--------------------The white powder needs to be scraped out.-------------Your best bet is to evaluate the engine with a compression test / test the starter and wiring.------Do not start buying parts before you know that it is worth it.
 
Thank you Racerone. I plan to do that this weekend. I will check the compression first. I do know there is some faulty wiring at the solenoid and starter and some corrosion on 2 of the plugs. I will keep you guys posted. I have been scraping the oxidation off of the bracket and it is getting better. I work nights so this project is slow going. Thank you guys for bearing with me.
 
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