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Tachometer problems on 70 HP Johnson

david_c

New member
"Hello,
I am new on this site


"Hello,
I am new on this site and need help.
I bought a used 1999 70 HP Johnson outboard for my boat and had it installed by the mechanic that I bought it from. After the install of the motor my tach would not work. He told me that the tach was bad and needed to be replaced. I replaced it and still had the same problem. I have since replaced the voltage regulator and still no fix. (Long story)
I tested the voltage on the gray wire at the back of the tach and I get negative voltage with the motor running. All other test on the tach show the correct
(positive) power and ground readings. This is the same with the gray wire connected to the tach and with it not attached.
Can anyone offer any help with this one?
Thanks in advance,
David"
 
"I retired a number of years b

"I retired a number of years before that engine was manufactured, however ther circuitry should be the same which is what I am leaning on by stating the following.

Remove the Gray wire from the tachometer and with an ohm meter, trace it back to its terminal connection at the engines wiring harness terminal strip. It should be connected to another Gray wire leading from either a plain rectifier or a voltage regulator/rectifier combination unit, and to that "Gray" wire only! Make sure that there are no jumpers mistakenly installed that could have other wires feeding into it.

Hopefully someone quite familiar with the circuitry of that engine will jump in here with additional information.

Let us know what you find."
 
"Joe,
Thanks for the reply.


"Joe,
Thanks for the reply.
I have checked the gray wire from the back of the guage to the distribution strip on the motor. It has continuity and the only wire that it leads to is like you said, the gray wire from the regulator. I took it to a mechanic last week and he told me the voltage regulator was bad. He tested it for any dead shorts and said it was completely shorted out. I tested both voltage regulators tonight and cannot find anything to be shorted out. The mechanic that I bought the motor from said I was on my own with this and he was closed until spring. This, after telling me he would stand behind the motor and that nothing was wrong with it (before the sale). This motor has a 20 amp, five wire voltage regulator on it. Do you know if there are any measurements I can take with my multi-meter to test the regulator?
Thanks for any and all help.
David"
 
"For the time being, check the

"For the time being, check the tachometer as follows.

(Testing Tachometer With Water Cooled Regulator/Rectifier)
(J. Reeves)

A quick check is to simply plug in a another new tachometer as a piece of test equipment. If the new tach works properly and the old tach didn't, obviously the old tach is faulty.... but usually boaters don't carry around a spare tach (see below).

A faulty rectifier wouldn't damage the tachometer, the tachometer simply wouldn't work. This is due to the fact that the tachometer operates off of the charging system and the rectifier converts AC voltage to DC voltage, enabling the charging system. A faulty rectifier disables the charging system, and the tachometer simply doesn't register.

However.... those watercooled regulator/rectifiers that are used on the 35amp charging systems (and some others) bring into play a different type problem, and as you've probably found out, they are really a pain to troubleshoot via the proper procedure. There's an easier way.

The tachometer sending/receiving setup operates off of the gray wire at the tachometer. That same gray wire exists at the engine wiring harness which is connected to the engine electrical terminal strip. You'll see that there is a gray wire leading from the regulator/rectifier to that terminal strip, and that there is another gray wire attached to it. That other gray wire is the wire leading to the tachometer which is the one you're looking for.

Remove that gray wire that leads to the tachometer. Now, find the two (2) yellow wires leading from the stator to that terminal strip. Hopefully one of them is either yellow/gray or is connected to a yellow/gray wire at the terminal strip. If so, connect the gray wire you removed previously to that yellow/gray terminal. Start the engine and check the tachometers operation, and if the tachometer operates as it should, then the regulator/rectifier is faulty and will require replacing. If the tachometer is still faulty, replace the tachometer.

If neither of the yellow wires from the stator is yellow/gray, and neither is attached to a yellow/gray wire, then attach that gray tachometer wire to either yellow stator wire, then the other yellow wire, checking the tachometer operation on both connections.

I've found this method to be a quick and efficent way of finding out which component is faulty.... the tachometer or the regulator/rectifier. It sounds drawn out but really only takes a very short time to run through. If the water cooled regulator/rectifier proves to be faulty, don't put off replacing it as they have been known to catch on fire with disasterous consequences.

That will tell you if the tachometer is good or not, which of course will lead you into either a faulty regulator/rectifier, incorrect wiring, whatever. I'll get back to you with the OMC water cooled regulator test that was used on the older models later on today BUT frankly I've never used the test as it was simply too drawn out."
 
"Joe,
I tried the gray wire t


"Joe,
I tried the gray wire to the yellow and gray wire and I have a working tach. The problem is I loose charging with it connected this way. I took it to another mechanic today and we tried yet another regulator (third one) that was working when it came off the donor motor. The result was the same problem, no tach. All three tachs are doing the same thing, no tach with the gray wire to the gray wire.
I got an email from Teleflex today that said to add a 200 ohm resistor between the send and the ground wire. I will try this later tonight or tomorrow and post the results.
Does anyone know if the after market regulators for this application are worth trying?

Thanks
David"
 
"Strange indeed. Connecting th

"Strange indeed. Connecting the gray tach wire to the yellow/gray stator lead should not cause any interference with the battery charging system.

The charging system should be (if I remember correctly) when speaking of the colored wires:

Yellow Stator to Yellow Regulator,

Yellow/Gray Stator to Yellow/Gray regulator,

Red Regulator to Battery Terminal of the Starter Solenoid.

For many years, the tachometer gray lead simply connected to the yellow/gray lead of the stator/rectifier terminal and did not interfere with the charging system. Hopefully someone will jump in here with the answer as I'd be interested in hearing it.

I assume you have a manual that includes the wiring diagram, and that you have traced the wiring route?"
 
"After more testing tonight th

"After more testing tonight the only regulator that does not charge is the replacement that I bought and tried. It will not charge no matter what wire is connected to the tach. So it is obvious that it is a bad regulator.
The original regulator charges (or at least it did tonight) but the tach does not work with the gray wire. It will work with the gray wire connected to the yellow and gray and it will charge like this. Will it hurt to run it like this and what would cause this to happen?
The third regulator that was tried today was only to see if the gray wire would produce a working tach. We did not check it to see if it was charging.
I did not have a resistor that I could try tonight. I will pick up a few in the AM and give that a try.
I am sorry to say that I do not have a service manual for this motor. I have one that is suppose to be on the way but it is slow in showing up. I was told it will be shipped later next week, when it comes in to the place that I ordered it from. That is a different source of frustration.
I have traced the wires as much as possible. Only being able to check continuity.

Thanks for the help
David"
 
"Yes, you probably would have

"Yes, you probably would have been better off to have ordered the factory manual directly from Andrew at this site.

The original regulator that does work excepting the gray wire? It's possible that the internal circuit to that gray wire has failed and won't affect any other portion of the regulator BUT that's a unknown factor. I'd use it as a last resort but only until a new regulator/rectifier could be obtained. As mentioned previously, in time a faulty regulator, without fail, always seems to short out with a resulting fire.... a real chancy situation!

These units you're installing that don't work, are they free units that you're obtaining someway? If you paid for them, they certainly should be replaced free of charge.

At any rate, you now know that the tachometer is okay and where the problem lies.

Here's something from my database that may be of interest to you.

(Replace Water Cooler Reg/Rectifier With Regular Small Rectifier)
(J. Reeves)

Many engines, if equipped with a P/T/T, incorporates a water cooled regulator/rectifier assy somewhere, usually located on top of the block, just in back of the flywheel on a V4 or V6. If the battery is not being charged and/or the tachometer is being non functional or erratic, the usual problem is that the water cooled regulator/rectifier assy has shorted out, a fairly expensive item. However, if your engine does not have a high 35 ampere output stator (under the flywheel) but rather has a 6 ampere or 9 ampere stator (amperes in the low range area), then it really does not need that expensive water cooled regulator/rectifier assy.

You can trouble shoot that item by locating the terminal wiring block on the engine. Find the small gray wire that leads to the engine wiring harness (at the present time, it's attached to another gray wire that is attached to that reg/rect assy. Move that gray wire so that it will be connected to the Yellow/Gray wire on the terminal block that leads to the stator assy. That small gray wire that we want moved leads to your techometer. Now, run the engine for a short time simply to check the tachometer reading. If the tach now reads correctly, you may do the following if you wish.
-------------------------------
A rectifier will not tolerate reverse polarity. Simply touching the battery with the cables in the reverse order or hooking up a battery charger backwards will blow the diodes in the rectifier assy immediately.

If you have a late model engine with P/T/T, you probably have a water cooled regulator/rectifier assy. That regulator/rectifier assembly has a list price that exceeds (usually) $250.00.

However, the low ampere charging stator on the engine really doesn't require that expensive item. The engine, if it has the low ampere charging stator, usually a 6 ampere or 9 ampere, will allow you to use the smaller type rectifier which is by far a less expensive unit. This smaller rectifier has a list price of approximately $50.00.

I'll enter the original OMC part number and the superceeded number for both units here. Prices are approximate and rounded out.

Water Cooled Reg/Rectifier - 395391--> 395204 - $250.00 .
Regular Smaller Rectifier - 582399--> 583408 - $50.00.

To use the smaller rectifier, remove and discard the wires from the water cooled reg/rectifier. Cut them off at the reg/rectifier and remove them. Don't let them lay around on the engine or connected up at the other end. You can replace the water cooled regulator/rectifier with a plate if available or leave the water cooled reg/rectifier on the engine (let it serve as a water passage cover plate).

The following paragraph pertains to engines up to the time I retired (Approximately 1990). Later model engines might not have a mounting area for the smaller rectifiers or may have the smaller rectifier mounting area elsewhere. I can only suggest you check the engine involved.

Now on many of the 2, 3, V4, and V6 engines, look at the starboard side of your engine right close to the wiring terminal block. There are two threaded holes there where the smaller rectifier attaches to the engine. They're two different sizes (threads) on some engines. Just find screws or bolts that will work properly. After that, pertaining to the three wires that are attached to the smaller rectifier, attach the RED one to the 12v RED terminal on that block, the yellow one to the yellow stator wire at the block, and the yellow/gray one to the yellow/gray stator wire at the block. NOTE, the Yellow/Gray terminal will have the stator Yellow/Gray wire, the small rectifier Yellow/gray wire/ and the tachometer Gray wire.

Some of those small rectifiers do not have a yellow/gray wire, but instead have two yellow wires. In which case, it doesn't mater which yellow wire goes where just so they're attached to the stator wires.

Let us know how you make out."
 
"Joe,
One of the regulator wa


"Joe,
One of the regulator was not free. I ordered it from a company in FL and they said they would give me credit for it. The third regulator was just tested at the mechanic yesterday.
As of more testing today:
I no longer have charging from the original regulator. Both regulators that I have will not work the tach or charge the battery.
The part number on these regulators is 585001 and it is a 20 amp regulator with five wires. Yellow, yellow / gray strip, gray, red, and purple (almost blue).
I tried the suggested 200 OHM resistor on the ground and send post on the back of the tach. The result was nothing different and did not work.

I tried the following test on the regulators. A member (Alfa) on a different forum told me to try this.
Remove the rectifier wires from the terminal block. Using a ohm meter, connect the black lead of the ohm meter to the rectifier base (ground), then one by one, connect the red lead of the ohm meter to the yellow, yellow/gray, then the red wire (some rectifiers may also have a yellow/blue wire. If so connect to that also). Now, reverse the ohm meter leads and check those same wires again. You should get a reading in one direction, and none at all in the other direction.

Now, connect the black lead of the ohm meter to the red wire. One by one, connect the red lead of the ohm meter to the yellow, yellow/gray, and if present, the yellow/blue wire. Then reverse the leads, checking the wires again. Once more, you should get a reading in one direction and none in the other.

Note that the reading obtained from the red rectifier wire will be lower then what is obtained from the other wires.

Any deviation from the "Reading", "No Reading" as above indicates a faulty rectifier.



This is what I found in testing the resistance.
With the black lead from the meter to the case and then the red lead to the case. The only wire that shows resistance both ways is the gray wire. The red wire is the only wire that did not show any resistance with the black lead connected to the case of the regulator.
With the meter leads connected to the red wire all the wires show resistance except for the gray wire.
According to this, I have two bad voltage regulators. The company in Florida is going to give me credit on a new regulator but they are trying to sell me an after market regulator. Do you know anything about aftermarket regulators or should I go with the $230 OMC regulator? The after market has the same warranty and is $80 cheaper.

Thanks and sorry for the long post.
David"
 
"David..... Your statement tha

"David..... Your statement that you received from another source ie "I tried the following test on the regulators. A member (Alfa) on a different forum told me to try this. Remove the rectifier wires from the terminal block. Using a ohm meter, connect the black lead of etc etc etc...."

That also came from my database, authored by myself, and obviously plagiarized by this other source. I don't mind anyone copying and pasting my work as long as they include it in full, BUT when a article is passed off as ones individual work and it is not, well, that sort of sets a fire under me.

Now, that test cannot be applied to a water cooled regulator/rectifier. That test is strictly for the smaller single unit rectifiers that I mentioned previously.

If a item has the same warranty and is more resonable in price, that's the route I'd take.

I'm located just east of Tampa. What is this company in Florida that you speak of that is going to issue you credit?"
 
"Joe,
I do not know where he


"Joe,
I do not know where he got that information. I am sorry that he did not give the credit where credit was due for that information. He has been trying to help me out with this problem for a couple of weeks now. I don't think he was trying to take credit for that information, he was just passing it along to me. I had not read it before and I don't think anyone else had told me to try it before. I am sorry for any offense taken.

The parts pace is Marine Parts outlet in Stuart FL.

I am not sure but isn't my regulator an air cooled regulator? This may be stupid but I don't see where it is cooled by water???
This regulator has fins on it like any other air cooled case I have ever seen. I may be totally wrong and if I am I am sorry for my lack of knowledge (stupidity). That is why I am on these forums looking for all the help I can get.

Thanks again
David"
 
"After all of this it is now w

"After all of this it is now working. The regulator was not getting ignition power from the purple wire. Some one had cut the purple wire and taped it back into the wiring harness. Why would someone cut a wire and hide what they had done?
I know have an extra voltage regulator if anyone needs it. I am sorry for any waste of anyones time and I very much appreciate all the advice and help. Chasing things like this down is useless with out a service manual. Lesson learned for the future, have the manual before you start buying parts.

Thanks again for everything.
David"
 
DAVID_C
I have registered on this site because of your question and the excellent responses provided here. I'm glad your problem is resolved, it's possible that mine might also be, without asking a single question!
 
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