Logo
FULL SITE MENU

Starting problem with 23 L ford cobra

J

joesap

New member
"Questions for Bob Hill:
My 8

"Questions for Bob Hill:
My 87 Seaswirl with a 2.3 L cobra engine will start but wont keep running when in the run key position witch tells me that it is getting the 12 volts from the start solenoid but not the lower voltage from the resister wire. I asked about this same problem last year (5/22/08)and you sent me a wiring diagram that was very hard to read. anyway the problem fixed it's self and I never figured what the problem was. I noticed that in a message to Ronald Cahill (4/9/09), you sent him the same diagram but it was legible and in color. I was able to download that diagram and it will be very helpful. Do you have the rest of that color diagram (the one that shows everything on the other end of the cable)? If so I would really appreciate it if you emailed it to me.
Two other questions: what is the ESA module and will it run without it? And can you think of anything that will interrupt the lower running voltage to the coil?
Thanks, Joe Sapienza"
 
The engine will run without th

The engine will run without the ESA but shifting will be rough as the ESA reduces the RPM when shifting. A bad ESA will produce the saem symptom. Disconnect it and see if starting problem fixed. The kill switch also would do the same allowing it to monentarily fire up but die. Make sure its connections are good and the lanyard on. To test if the switch is the problem disconnect it and join the two wires with 10 amp auto fuse. If that fixes it replace the switch.
 
"ok this link is for the 1987

"ok this link is for the 1987 Ford engine wiring diagram

http://www.selocmarine.com/content/manuals/3404/pdf/340410w152.pdf

If you mean by the rest of the diagram the dash area then this link will show you that part

http://www.selocmarine.com/content/manuals/3404/pdf/340410w202.pdf

The ESA (Electronic Shift Assist) is a module when activated will actually pulse the negative side of the coil (grounds it out) basically causing a miss. This in turn causes the engine to run a little rough and drop in RPM's. This is normally only activated by the interrupt switch while shifting out of fwd or rev gear into neutral, it makes shifting much easier as the gears separate much easier when the RPM's drop. In my opinion the ESA needs to be working in order to extend the life of your gears and shift mechanism. Being attached to the ignition the ESA can also cause problems so one of the troubleshooting steps can be to unplug it (temporarily) to eliminate it.

For your missing coil voltage problem, you will need to trace the red/purple wire back from the coil to the splice near the alternator or further to see where it's missing. Does your boat have a kill switch installed?"
 
"Thanks guys The diagram will

"Thanks guys The diagram will be very helpful. I'm not sure what you mean by a kill switch. If it's the one on the throtal handel then the answer is no, there is not one installed.

Joe"
 
"Back then most boats didn&#39

"Back then most boats didn't have a kill switch but some owners have installed aftermarket ones. It usually has a tether attached to it and you attach it to your self or around your wrist, if you fall over board it flips the switch and (KILLS) the engine."
 
"Hi guys,

opening the ESA c

"Hi guys,

opening the ESA circuit didn't fix the problem. I don't know what the wiring inside of the solenoid is but I get zero ohms on the"1" terminal to ground with the wire removed. is that normal? Should I have that lower
voltage at the pos side of the coil with the switch on and the engine not running?

Joe"
 
"Joe...go back to the wiring d

"Joe...go back to the wiring diagram for the dash, see the "A" terminal on the ignition switch, looks blue but it's called PU in the diag. Use a meter or a 12v test light and check there for 12v (with the key in the ON or Run position), if it's ok then move down the line. There is a 10 pin black cannon connector on top of the engine at the back, the main harness goes through there and it can be loose or have corroded connections and then it gets to the splice connection near the alternator and then it becomes the resistor wire. Just turn the key on and follow that circuit to see where the problem is."
 
"Hi Bill, I,m getting voltage

"Hi Bill, I,m getting voltage to the positive side of the coil. My problem is that I have no return path to ground at the negitive side of the coil so I'm not getting voltage across the coil. Looking at the diagrams it looks to me that the negitive side should be getting a ground all the time from the grey wire that is tied to the black wire on the tack. The black wire comes back through the cable and goes directly to ground. This confuses me about the opperation of the ESA circuit. What effect will pulsing a ground on the negitive side of the coil when it's already grounded?"
 
"Joe...the black wire on the n

"Joe...the black wire on the neg side of the coil comes from the points themselves inside the dist. The way the coil works is that it has to charge and discharge very rapidly. The way this is controlled is by closing and opening the points. If you meter across the coil (engine not running) and the points are open then you won't see any voltage, if there were closed at the time then you would. The ESA provides additional ground pulses to the coil, if it does this when the points open then the coil can't fire and that's what creates the engine "miss" and it seems to stumble and drop in rpm."
 
"Bill,
That all makes sence b

"Bill,
That all makes sence but my diagram shows three wires on the neg. side of the coil. one black from the points, one grey from from the From the ESA
and one grey from the cable that lands on the tack where it is tied to a black wire that comes back through the cable to the engine ground.

Now that I think about it I noticed that the tack has only one terminal in the drawing. It makes sence that the 2nd grey wire should go to the other terminal on the tack.

Anyway I think the trouble is in the solenoid where the terminal that is intended to send 12 volts to the coil in the start position reads a short to ground. I think this is grounding the positive side of the coil during start.
Is there any reason that I cant replace that solenoid with a automobile 4 wire solenoid?"
 
"If the I terminal on the assi

"If the I terminal on the assist solenoid was shorted to ground then it would never start as the coil would never get 12v during starting, I thought your problem was that it would start but not stay running once the key was turned to run?"
 
"Bob,
Yesterday I removed the

"Bob,
Yesterday I removed the wire from that terminal and fed 12 volts to it through a relay that I had and energized the relay with the start circuit(the y/r wire from the start switch)and the engine started and kept running.Today I replaced the solenoid and it still works!!!!!!!!
The only explanation I can think of is that terminal was only shorted when the solenoid was not energized.I dont know what the inside of that solenoid looks like. Anyway I hope this will not come back to haunt me.
The good news is that thanks to you, I have learned a whole lot about the starting system on this engine.

Thanks Again, Joe"
 
"Very glad to hear you got it

"Very glad to hear you got it fixed Joe (still confused about that solenoid though, it's just an electro-mechanical switch?) but who can argue with success! Now it's time to get out there and enjoy it!"
 
Back
Top