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sp c 290 outdrive problem

P

pjr

New member
hi.
iam new to this forum and hoping to find some help.

when the engine isnt running the boat will go from forward to reverse to neutral no problems. when running it will go from neutral to either forward or reverse but will not go back to neutral and sticks in gear. any ideas?

i also have an oil leak from the seal where the shaft goes into the out drive, how hard is this to replace?

thanks
phil
 
First make sure that the shift cable is 100%, i.e., the ends are not slipping.
Second, check that the locking plate that retains the shift cable at the point that it enters the drive is in place correctly.
Check that there is a flat washer on the "pin" that screws on the end of the shift cable at the point that it attaches to the shift plate on the drive ( and a cotter pin as well)

You most likely have a single lever helm control. With time, the "gear" segment that is stamped into the shift arm (internal to the control) and link the shift and throttle functions, at the helm end wears and shifting gets sloppy. IFSO, its usually new helm control time.

Replacing the seal at the shift shaft is fairly simple and does not require any special tools. Refer to the Volvo OEM shop manual for procedure.
 
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thanks for the help.
i dont think it is the helm as when i take the cover from the back of the outdrive and disconnect the connecting rod. you can feel quite a bit of resistance when you operate the gear change manually. the selector arm seams to have a bit of free movment in and out, is this normal?

thanks again
 
I assume when you say "selector arm", you are talking about that part at the top of the drive that is eventually activated by the shift cable.
When that arm moves, it is on a cam grove, that causes the part to move in and out as it shifts from F -N - R. The thing to check for is that this arm moves fully when you shift the lever at the helm.
 
Several things can cause what you are describing with the boat in the water... prop spinning.... hull moving slowly:

** RPM too high will cause the sliding sleeve and gear cup to remain engaged.
Lower your RPM to the low rpm spec and give it a try.

**Incorrect or contaminated gear oil can cause the sleeve/cup to stick.

**broken, but still in contact, shift shoe.... eventually resulting in a worn eccentric pistion.


Are you speaking of the prop shaft seal leaking?
Or are you speaking of the main drive gear seal leaking?

And please identify if this is the SP C or 290 drive...... in some respects, these are not the same!

.
 
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What is described seems typical symptoms of too much play between shift fork and cone grove.
To adjust it properly, the top part of the drive should be removed.
Then remove one or more of the shims under the shift arm screw on top of the shift mechanism. This will push the shift fork deeper into the groove and reduce play.
when removing shims, the in-put shaft should be turned at the same time. When you get to the point that the input shaft is 'sticking' at one point, ADD a shim. If then ok, assemble the drive and do a test run.
At the same time you have the top off the drive, I would have changed the 'wear ring' at the bottom of the primary shaft and checked/re-shimmed the vertical play of the shaft.
A proper workshop will be your best helper.
 
No offense intended here....., but please use caution if using the previous suggestions. This is work for the tech who has experience at this.
The shift shoe channel in the sliding sleeve is eccentrically cut.
This requires that any shimming be done very carefully, and from a base of experience!

Rotating the main drive gear will not rotate the sliding sleeve unless we have full gear engagement!
The other means would be vertical shaft rotation..... i.e., rotating the propeller!

haffiman37 said:
.................
A proper workshop will be your best helper.
Click to expand...
Fully agreed! :)

.
 
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hi all.
thanks for the advice.
regards to the contaminated oil. yes i have it is quite emulsified.
the seal i want to change which seams to be leaking is the main input shaft seal.

also. i want to use the boat for wakeboading and have been told a 19 pitch prop is best for this,? can anybody give me any part numbers for these?
 
pjr said:
...................
  1. regards to the contaminated oil. yes i have it is quite emulsified.
  2. the seal i want to change which seams to be leaking is the main input shaft seal.
  3. also. i want to use the boat for wakeboading and have been told a 19 pitch prop is best for this,? can anybody give me any part numbers for these?
Click to expand...
1. Best learn where this h2o is coming from. Do a Pressure/Vacuum "leak-down" test before going any further.

2. Often the seal surface washer must be replaced, and is why I asked if you would please delineate between 290 and SP C. The procedure for setting rolling torque value is quite different between the two!
Which drive do you have???????

3. 14" X 19", 15" X 19" or 16" X 19"?
 
pjr said:
also. i want to use the boat for wakeboading and have been told a 19 pitch prop is best for this,? can anybody give me any part numbers for these?
Click to expand...

What power are you running and size of the boat. That will be the determining factor.

Have a great day

Rob.
 
Wake boarding is a sport where you do not want the speed, but a nice 'wake' at a relatively low speed.
I would suggest a 16" dia prop, but at rather low pitch, but again depends on which engine and boat you are using.Choose a pitch that puts you just ABOVE the upper rpm limit of your engine.
Here is the Volvo Prop spec:
http://www.box.net/shared/vyodupikmj
 
hi all again.

the drive says on it sp c.
the boat is a 18 foot sunray. with a volvo aq 271.

iam hoping the water is getting in where the oil is getting out as the bellows seam to be leaking.

thanks
 
OK..... we now know that you have the SP C drive.... not a 290!
These are my preferred drives... especially in the DP C!
The 290 uses the same seal surface washer, but the pre-load method and procedure are different.



Here's the typical process that a main drive seal undergoes when leaking bellows are the cause:
  • Drive Bellows leaks water.
  • Water rusts away at the special seal surface washer.
  • Seal surface washer now becomes abrasive.
  • This abrasive surface cuts away at the seal.
  • Now the seal has lost it's ability to do either.... Hold oil in/keep water out!
Here is why I asked if you would let us know which drive you had!
Since you have the SP drive, you have a crush sleeve that controls the pre-load for the two back-to-back tapered roller bearings of the main drive gear.

Since the seal surface washer must be replace, the tension on this crush sleeve is relaxed when disassembled.
New seal surface washer and seal are installed.
Now the rolling torque for these two bearings must be re-tested, and/or re-set.

While in there, you may as well look at the condition of these two bearings.
Replace if necessary.
This involves a new crush sleeve, fresh set-up and rolling torque value to be set.... and then "drive gear" to "driven gear" back-lash to be re-set.
None of this is for the average Joe to do, unless you have hypoid gear experience!

Once this seal is replaced and the transmission back in place with new O-rings, and prior to the oil being installed........, I'd do a leak-down test.
I'd connect an out drive specific Pressure/Vacuum gauge and pump.
I'd then give it the pressure required, and see how long she holds.
I do same with vacuum.


NOTE: there is no need to remove the entire drive. If you remove the transmission only, it will make this task much easier for you, IMO.
If the lower unit needs to be removed, then I'd still do same by leaving the Intermediate housing in place. It can always be removed separately if need be.

Please note the importance of this bearing work being done correctly! I do this work routinely.... I occasionally see the failures that result from it not being done correctly! It can be a very expensive lesson!

Here is an exploded view of your transmission.
9806.jpg
 
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hi thank you all for all the help.
i have solved the going into gear problem, the engine was idleing to fast, seam to be ok now.

still got the oil leak. tried to take the outdrive off but the to main pins which it pivots on are well sized!!!

still looking to find out what prop is best for wakeboarding? any ideas?
its for a 18 foot sunray with a aq 271 motor.

thanks
pjr
 
pjr said:
hi thank you all for all the help.
(1) i have solved the going into gear problem, the engine was idleing too fast, seem to be ok now.

(2) still got the oil leak. tried to take the outdrive off but the two main pins which it pivots on are well siezed!!!

(3) still looking to find out what prop is best for wakeboarding? any ideas? its for a 18 foot sunray with a aq 271 motor.

thanks
pjr
Click to expand...
(1) I thought that your issue was coming from gear back into neutral!!!!!!


(2) I assume that you mean "hinges" on!
I never remove an entire drive initially!
I remove the transmission only (upper unit), and the lower unit only!
If further work becomes necessary, I then address the issue of the hinge pins and corrosion.
Heat is your friend here. Mapp Gas or Propane used in a small torch works just great.
Heat will expand the aluminum hinge pin ears and will soften the corrosion some, and they will usually come out.
Be careful as to what you drive on them with...., No hard steel punch, as these are very soft pins and will easily expand and become stuck!
Use a brass or aluminum punch ONLY!


(3) You simply need to try an array of propellers to know which one works best. Use your WOT RPM specs, and go out and test a few!
 
thanks.
yes i did mean coming back to neutral.
but the new oil and the lower rpm seams to have solved the problem. well out of the water anyway just running with a water hook up.

you say the transmission will come off without moving the whole drive.

once the drive is lowered do i just remove the steering hood joint then undo the 4 bolts holding the transmission on? will it just slid off?

thanks
pjr
 
pjr said:
................. well out of the water anyway just running with a water hook up.

you say the transmission will come off without moving the whole drive.

once the drive is lowered do i just remove the steering hood joint then undo the 4 bolts holding the transmission on? will it just slid off?

thanks
pjr
Click to expand...

Out of the water places no load on the propeller. You will want to get this IN the water to fully know if your problem has been solved, IMO.
It's the thrust of the propeller that wants to keep the sleeve/cup engaged.
This is the principle in which the cone clutch works!

Yes, I've been doing these for many years, and it is much easier to remove the transmission ONLY for any initial work.
Some members disagree with this.... and I will respect their opinion!
Once you do this, you may see why I suggest this.

  • Helmet pin removed.
  • Lift helmet up and out of your way.
  • Disconnect the shift linkage and bellows.
  • Loosen the four fastners.
  • Lift transmission up/sideways some..... and it should lift out.
You may figth the vertical shaft coupler..... but it can easily be pushed down with a long screwdriver.
Watch for, and inventory, the shims that will be directly under the transmission.... they must go back in as the same value as when removed!

Do same in reverse order when reinstalling.
New OEM O-rings must be used.
(dip stick/drain plug/oil drain back tube/bearing retainer.... and a gasket for the fill plug)

Side note:
Remember that we determined that you have the SP C drive.... not a 290!
So some parts will be different and your parts man will need to know this! :)


.
 
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hello there.

i seam to have solved my problems. at last!!

just need to pick a prop now?

iam so confused with how to select one, anybody got any quick tips.

thanks
 
pjr said:
hello there.
(1)i seam to have solved my problems. at last!!

(2)just need to pick a prop now?
iam so confused with how to select one, anybody got any quick tips.

thanks
Click to expand...

(1) A requestof you if I may.....
Many people reading or on-looking and/or who have been following your thread, enjoy seeing the final resolve.
If you don't mind, post what you found/did/changed/ etc, that corrected your problem. It may help someone else!
Thanks.

(2) Hmmm. The only thing that I can ever recommend to someone with this delima (and it sounds like you don't even have a starting point), is to start with asking people who have same boat/same engine/same drive........ or ask a prop shop....... ask if they will allow you to demonstrate several props, and then go out and do what all of us do:
And t hat is, the correct use of the WOT RPM test as per OEM specs, and select your propeller accordingly.
If you cannot reach OEM WOT RPM, you will risk engine damage.

There is no alternate safe method that I am aware of.
 
Z
pjr said:
hi.
iam new to this forum and hoping to find some help.

when the engine isnt running the boat will go from forward to reverse to neutral no problems. when running it will go from neutral to either forward or reverse but will not go back to neutral and sticks in gear. any ideas?

i also have an oil leak from the seal where the shaft goes into the out drive, how hard is this to replace?

thanks
phil
Click to expand...

First time user, so have not figured the forum out yet.Can, t seem to find how to enter new post.
My volvo outdrive, SP-CD 1994 will only lift a few inches and stop, guage says, up, but it doesn, t seem to be up all the way.when I bought the boat last week it seemed to work fine.
Any help will be appreciated.
Thanks, Clive J,
river 1947
 
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