Seized VP 5.0GL - Options/Insights

[Relentless85]

Hello, I am new to boating and boat engines. However, I am mechanically inclined when it comes to vehicle engines. My family and I are looking into purchasing a boat and what I describe below is happening.

My friend has a 2001 Glastron GX 205 with the Volvo Penta 5.0 GL engine. The hour meter showed 182 hours. My friend took the boat out on the lake and drove it around for a few hours. They turned the engine off and sat for a bit. When they tried to restart the engine, it would not turn over. Said sounded like the belts would squeal. My friend was told the engine sized. I talked to the mechanic who told my friend this. The mechanic told me he tried standing on the prop to get the engine to manually turn over and it would not. The mechanic said he checked the starter and said it was ok. The mechanic pulled the spark plugs and ran a scope down and he said he saw some corrosion inside.

I went to look at the engine and I pulled the oil cap and saw chocolate milk around the cap. I pulled the dipstick and there was less chocolate milk but the oil was more “runny” than usual. I didn’t try to turn the engine over with the starter because the mechanic didn’t put the spark plugs back in and disconnected the power to the starter.

The mechanic said that somehow the engine ingested water and hydro locked the engine. He gave my friend the option of replacing with a used engine or replacing with a new block.

My friend is offering to sell the boat to me. I have been looking at new blocks with heads.

The mechanic said he could replace the engine with a new block from Jasper engines for around 12k.

I have heard and read horror stories about Jasper engines in the automotive world. What are good other places that I can personally buy a block from? I have seen Michigan motors and S&J engines. Does anyone have good experiences with these places? I am looking into doing the work myself.

Any pros or cons for replacing an engine in this old of a boat? The interior is in good condition and the boat was in a storage unit when not in use.

 

[bondo]

Hello, I am new to boating and boat engines. However, I am mechanically inclined when it comes to vehicle engines. My family and I are looking into purchasing a boat and what I describe below is happening.

My friend has a 2001 Glastron GX 205 with the Volvo Penta 5.0 GL engine. The hour meter showed 182 hours. My friend took the boat out on the lake and drove it around for a few hours. They turned the engine off and sat for a bit. When they tried to restart the engine, it would not turn over. Said sounded like the belts would squeal. My friend was told the engine sized. I talked to the mechanic who told my friend this. The mechanic told me he tried standing on the prop to get the engine to manually turn over and it would not. The mechanic said he checked the starter and said it was ok. The mechanic pulled the spark plugs and ran a scope down and he said he saw some corrosion inside.

I went to look at the engine and I pulled the oil cap and saw chocolate milk around the cap. (sounds like condensation)I pulled the dipstick and there was less chocolate milk but the oil was more “runny” than usual. I didn’t try to turn the engine over with the starter because the mechanic didn’t put the spark plugs back in and disconnected the power to the starter. ( hook the starter back up, 'n see whether it rolls over, with the plugs out)

The mechanic said that somehow the engine ingested water and hydro locked the engine.( it should have turned over, 'n blew the water out)
He gave my friend the option of replacing with a used engine or replacing with a new block.

My friend is offering to sell the boat to me. I have been looking at new blocks with heads.

The mechanic said he could replace the engine with a new block from Jasper engines for around 12k.

I have heard and read horror stories about Jasper engines in the automotive world. What are good other places that I can personally buy a block from? I have seen Michigan motors and S&J engines. Does anyone have good experiences with these places? I am looking into doing the work myself.

Any pros or cons for replacing an engine in this old of a boat? The interior is in good condition and the boat was in a storage unit when not in use.

Ayuh,...... Will this friend let you diagnose the problem, before buying it,..??
If so, pull the drive 1st, to be sure it's the motor, 'n not the drive,....
Standing on the prop, is Not a test,....
See where I bolded yer quote above, 'n start there, Before you spend any money,.....

 

[louc]

Is this boat in freshwater or salt water? If in freshwater you can often rehab an engine that suffered water ingestion all depending on the cause. In salt water you also can but your actions must be immediate.
Also even if the boat is structurally fine from being stored inside you still have two major components that can have troubles and cost $$$ to put right:
The outdrive
The transom mount including the power steering system .

 

[Droid]

I don't believe you could get $12,000 for this boat/motor/trailer combination if the boat was in mint condition. At least not in WI heading into fall.

*Has your friend owned it since new or just recently?
*Fresh or salt water use?
*Long time good friend or just an acquaintance?
*You've been out on this boat in the past & it ran good/you liked it?
*Is it otherwise spotless inside & out? In other words, a reputable dealer could be proud to put it in his showroom?

 

[Relentless85]

I don't believe you could get $12,000 for this boat/motor/trailer combination if the boat was in mint condition. At least not in WI heading into fall.

*Has your friend owned it since new or just recently?
*Fresh or salt water use?
*Long time good friend or just an acquaintance?
*You've been out on this boat in the past & it ran good/you liked it?
*Is it otherwise spotless inside & out? In other words, a reputable dealer could be proud to put it in his showroom?

My friends parents had owned it since the boat was new in 2001. The parents took good care of it. Then when it was passed down to my friend, it was taken care of, serviced and stored in a garage when not in use.

The boat has always been a freshwater boat. I have been in the boat several times. Each time I was in the boat it ran fine.

It’s a 2001 so there is some wear to be expected and it shows for a 25 year old boat. However, the seats are not stained or torn, there aren’t any cracks that I can see on the front, sides, underside or the rear where the lower unit is. All the gauges seem to work. The engine ran smooth when it was running. No abnormal vibrations. The hour meter said 182 hours. It could use some cleaning to be up to my standards.

The thinking is that since I have some knowledge of the boats history and know the boat hasn’t been completely trashed by owner, that it might be a better option to buy it and put a motor in it since we know where the boat came from and how it was treated. Rather than spend money on a boat that was “taken care of” from a stranger and then have potential issues with a boat purchased from a person we don’t know and potentially spend even more money to fix the boat from a stranger.

I agree that the boat is not probably worth 12k but if I were to do the work myself, I think I would come in under the 12k that the mechanic said he would charge. I’m finding 5.0 VP blocks for $4500-$5500 from various different websites. Just don’t know how reputable those engine builders/blocks are. I know for sure that I would not go with a Jasper marine engine.

 

[Droid]

You sound familiar with the boat. So if you liked it when it ran good, then if you can buy it right & have it running good at maybe $8000 total then you'll probably be OK.

Some thoughts:
*Did it fill with water 1st time out this season or not until several outings? If it took several outings then it's probably not a cracked block or manifold.
*Fresh water only, exhaust so manifolds are probably OK as in not rusted out. Risers/elbows & gaskets would be more likely bad.
*If engine was shut off or died for some reason while at a higher RPM it can roll backwards & suck water in.
*Was the boat beached, nose high, transom low then people accumulate on the rear deck area submerging it even deeper? One wake from a passing boat can swamp the exhaust.
*How long has it been sitting with water in it? Has the oil been changed & ran again? Expect 3 oil/filter changes before oil stays clean. If it is bad then trying to run it & it blows up is no loss.

 

[Relentless85]

You sound familiar with the boat. So if you liked it when it ran good, then if you can buy it right & have it running good at maybe $8000 total then you'll probably be OK.

Some thoughts:
*Did it fill with water 1st time out this season or not until several outings? If it took several outings then it's probably not a cracked block or manifold.
*Fresh water only, exhaust so manifolds are probably OK as in not rusted out. Risers/elbows & gaskets would be more likely bad.
*If engine was shut off or died for some reason while at a higher RPM it can roll backwards & suck water in.
*Was the boat beached, nose high, transom low then people accumulate on the rear deck area submerging it even deeper? One wake from a passing boat can swamp the exhaust.
*How long has it been sitting with water in it? Has the oil been changed & ran again? Expect 3 oil/filter changes before oil stays clean. If it is bad then trying to run it & it blows up is no loss.

I was out on the boat earlier this season. We were out for a full day on the water pulling tubes and trying to ski. It ran fine then. I know they have had the boat out 2-3 times after I was on it. So if water was ingested, I believe it was either immediately or possibly an accumulation of each outing.

I briefly looked at the risers and manifolds, I didn’t see any rust marks on them or see any cracks immediately visible to the eye. Rubber elbows looked healthy.

My friend said they were driving it and cruising around the lake for a bit. Sounds like they were cruising for at least 30 minutes to 1 hour. They stopped to rest and get the tube ready. They tried to restart the engine and it would not turn over. The more they kept trying to start it they eventually started to hear a squeal sound.

They were towed back to the dock. They put the boat on the trailer and took the boat to a local mechanic around the lake. That mechanic tested the starter, pulled some of the plugs and sprayed WD-40 in the wells and said he tried standing on the propeller to try making the engine turn over manually. The lake mechanic said the starter was good and he was unable to get the engine to turn over by standing on the propeller.

My friend then took it back home to the boat mechanic that had worked on the boat previously. The local mechanic pulled plugs, ran a scope and said he found corrosion in side the engine. The local mechanic also said he tried standing on the propeller to manually turn the engine over and could not get it to turn over.

I went to look at it briefly. I pulled the dipstick. If I remember correctly l, I didn’t find chocolate milk on the dipstick. I did find some milk chocolate when I removed the oil fil cap. However it was not caked on or dried on the top inside of the lid. It was around the threads on the cap. I think I stuck my finger into the fill hole and came out with chocolate milk.

I don’t believe my friend would beach the boat. They try to be very careful with the boat and are always monitoring the depth gauge….at least when I am on the boat with them, that’s what I have experienced.

So I guess it’s hard to tell how much water might be in the engine.

I am pretty sure the oil hasn’t been changed and the engine hasn’t been ran since the local mechanic looked at it about 2-3 weeks ago.

Right now most of the spark plugs are not in it. The plug wires have been disconnected and the main power has been disconnected.


In theory, if the boat is put into gear, spark plugs removed and I were to try spinning the propeller, wouldn’t the engine turn manually (if there was not something internally wrong with the out drive or the engine is truly seized) Or am I not understanding?

 

[Droid]

It seems hard to believe it went from running to seized after a brief stop. Removing the spark plugs should have let any hydraulic lock from water in the cylinders escape.

I've seen engines run with several gallons of watered down oil until it was essentially full & coming out the breather cap. Obviously not good. But some chocolate on the oil cap threads sounds like condensation and a cold running engine.
Standing on the prop is like 125 lb/ft of torque with a torque wrench. Think about it a minute..... Prop is max 16" diameter, so 200 lb man at 8" out from the prop shaft isn't much force. On a small outboard, yes you can probably rotate the motor but on a 5.7L? I don't think so.
Each of these mechanics have failed to pull the drive off and verify the drive isn't seized. That is step 1 to determine where the failure is.