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Sanity check - engine not starting!

JCosta

JCosta

Member
Both my Crusader 220's were running fine until I changed my spark plugs. Now the starboard engine will not start. I thought I was being careful by changing on plug at a time, remove the old plug, set gap on new plug (.035), install new plug, repeat. Now I've spent two days trying to figure out why the starboard engine will just not start. :mad: I thought at first I just crossed a wire on the starboard engine but now I'm confused I may have screwed up the wiring from the distributor to the plugs. I drew out what I think it should be based on my two days of pulling my hair out and a google search.
Crusader 220.jpg
I wired the starboard engine as shown in the drawing but still nothing. I pulled plug (1) and I have spark and a little soot on the plug. I pulled plug 7 and poured gas out of it and no soot. I dried it off and checked for spark... I have spark. So I'm thinking, is it possible that the plug is firing at the wrong time and my drawing is wrong or do I have something else going on. Is this just a coincidence and my carburetor is bad.
I assumed that location (1) on the distributor of the starboard engine was the same as the port side because I never moved it... am I wrong? If so how do I determine the number (1) location on the distributor.

As part of my troubleshooting I swapped the coils out and nothing. I installed a new cap and rotor and no change (this is why I think I messed up the wiring) I didn't install new wires... could I have damaged them?I also installed a new 50 amp circuit breaker and relay because I broke the stud off the relay... long story.

I'm starting to ramble so I think I should leave it at that. Any help or suggestions on what to look at next would be greatly appreciated. Maybe someone else will benefit from my problems in the future or at least have a good laugh.:D

J
 
Unclear what has been done. If I were there, however, the first thing I would do is check your belief that the engines are opposite rotation (some setups, like mine, reverse the rotation in the transmission). Look at the front of each engine as someone kicks the starters over and make sure they are different.

After that, you must just go back and redo everything, step by step, and find where you went wrong. There are lots of old threads discussing how to get #1 located on your distributor.

Good luck.
 
CarboJohn,

Thanks for the reply, I will search again for information on finding #1 on distributor.

The engine rotation is stamped on the plate just below the flywheels. I also pulled the rubber covers on the flywheel and confirmed the rotation while someone turned the key.

Sorry if I was unclear as to what has been done so far...
Day 1 - Engine was running fine then,
1. Changed plugs and distributor - No start
2. Noticed loose wire on neutral safety switch
3. Attempted to remove wire from solenoid (relay) and broke the post off
View attachment 13903
4. Purchased new solenoid and 50 amp breaker.. it looked ruff

Day 2
1. Installed new solenoid, 50 amp breaker and re-wired
2. Checked plug wires per drawing above - Turned over but No start
3. Checked for spark plug #1 - Have spark and noticed soot on plug (not sure if relevant)
4. Checked for spark plug #7 - have spark but plug is clean and covered in gas with no evidence of soot. (not sure if relevant)
5. Checked that carb is getting fuel.
6. Swapped known good coil from port engine - Turned over but no start

Note: Delco EST distributor
 
The only thing weird is the LH engine being on the STBD stringers....but its been ok so we can skip that.

The data in your drawing looks 'ok' - the 'wildcard' is the number one position of the cap.....turns out it can be "anywhere" on the circle....especially since you have the EST distributors (they weren't OEM in that era).....so I'd suggest you 'locate' the correct #1 terminal by making sure #1 cylinder is on the compression stroke (@ TDC) and the balancer's timing mark aligns with the timing tab (or use the flywheel marks - whichever is easiest). When the crankshaft is positioned, the rotor will point to the terminal that should be connected to the #1 plug wire....just follow the firing order from there.
 
Makomark,

I didn't note it on my drawing but the props spin opposite of the engine rotation, does that make a difference.

I'll be back to the boat this weekend and hopefully get this resolved. I was going to buy a piston stop in order to definitively determine TDC but If its easier to locate it on the flywheel I'll try that first. I have good access to both the balancer and the flywheel.

Now to determine the compression stroke is it as easy as feeling for air coming out of the plug hole?

Thanks for your help with this, I'm definitely going into this with a lot more confidence!

John
 
Not really as far as the ignition.......I'd suspect its just a byproduct of having a 1.88:1 or a 1.91:1 gear (on the basis these are inline velvet drives)

The flywheel can't slip like a balancer can so it's foolproof for finding TDC (as long as you locate the appropriate marks on the flywheel)...as you infer, TDC is easy, its TDC on the compression stroke that's key. The finger in the plug hole is one approach and works well as long as safety concerns are recognized and access exists...
 
Update... still will not start Ugh!

Spent the day at the boat yesterday trying to get this resolved. My first task was to confirm plug #1 by finding TDC on compression stroke. I removed all the plugs and rotated the engine with a socket wrench. I felt for air pressure on plug hole #1 and lined up the mark on the balancer on 0. I then checked the flywheel mark and noticed the mark was in the center (photo #1) and not on the plate mark. Now I'm not sure if this is the correct mark but I rotated the engine back to that line (photo #2).

Photo #1 when balancer mark on 0
View attachment 14001
Photo #2 I assumed that the plate line was my mark to line up flywheel mark.
View attachment 14002

When I removed the cap I noticed that the rotor did not line up with the plug (photo #3)

View attachment 14003

The top red arrow is the closest plug location, the yellow arrow is at TDC (I believe) and the bottom red arrow is where i thought plug # 1 was located. I loosened the distributor bolt and rotated it until it lined up with the top red arrow. I reinstalled the cap and re-wired to the drawing in my first post with a new wire set.

Not sure if you can see from the picture but the line I used is is stamped with LH on the bottom and 10 degrees on the top. Was this the wrong line to use?
View attachment 14004
This is a video of an attempt to start

So, I'm still getting spark and fuel. I believe wired correctly. I checked and cleaned ground wires, new fuel pump (just because), new plugs and wires. What am i missing. Is it time to look internal, should a do a compression test? Will that even tell me anyting? I'm running out or ideas. I may need to bring in a professional $$$

Thanks, J
 
Watching the youtube it looks like the engine fires up than dies after the starter disengages. If your Delco EST distro replaced a points unit the ballast resistor may still be installed and has failed. The more common problem is something being upset when the wires/plugs were changed. Definitely a puzzler. Let us know what the fix finally is. Good Luck.
 
can't 'see' the attachments so no comment there..
@x on what Mullet said on the video....
if you look at the wiring diagram, you'll see the coil gets fed B+ from the switch (via the ballast) as well as the starter's solenoid (but only when it is engaged)....a test light/volt meter on the + post of the coil should tell the story...
 
Problem solved!!! Thank you everyone who commented, I learned a lot about my engine and your comments put me on the correct path.

Mulletwagon, I don't have a ballast but your comment got me thinking. It definitely wanted to start but as soon as I would let go of the key it lost power.

makomark, did you post a wiring diagram because I can't see one.

Well, this little guy was the culprit.

IMG_0327.jpg

I swapped out the ignition switch with the port side and she came to life. It never even crossed my mind that when the switch was in the run position i lost power. live and learn I guess!


Now maybe I can salvage the rest of my season, thanks again!

John
 
no, not recently anyhow....if you need one, send me your email via PM and I can send the owner's manual that I have..
 
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