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Rebuild or Buy second hand Crusader 454

C

contender31

Regular Contributor
Happy Holidays and greeting from south Florida.*

This past week I learned that I broke a push rod and the valve is stuck on my starboard engine on my 1990 Crusader 454 350 model with 1600 hrs. After tearing down the exhaust, removing the manifold and head I saw that the piston was ok and my options began to surface. The reason for the push rod and valve issue stemmed from slight water intrusion due to worn out risers and elbows. My question to those who understand my situation is this. I can either re manufacture the heads and replace all the exhaust components on one engine at a cost of $3,000 including labor, all new exhaust components and 2 new heads. Alternatively I have an opportunity to replace both engines including labor with either Crusader 454 xl's at $7500 for the pair (300 hrs) or Crusader 8.1l at $ 15,000 (300 hrs ) My torment is I know the existing engines have 1600 hrs and eventually I will be dealing with the other engine soon OR do I just bite the bullet now and rebuild both my engines now or replace them with the second hand engines. Note: both second hand engines come from reliable sources but no guarantees either way.

Your thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated
Thanks in advance
 
I guess it depends on how long you want to keep the boat. If I was in the same situation, and may soon be (fingers crossed) as I have 454s with about 1200 hours, I would give the 8.1s serious thought. If your existing shaft, props, etc will match up with the 8.1s you may appreciate the extra HP and torque. However if you are thinking of selling the boat within a few years, go with the cheapest option and hope for the best. No guarantees is not a good point on those replacement engines though. I am sure you will get a lot of opinions on this.

How old were the risers and elbows that failed??

Erich
 
erich said:
I guess it depends on how long you want to keep the boat. If I was in the same situation, and may soon be (fingers crossed) as I have 454s with about 1200 hours, I would give the 8.1s serious thought. If your existing shaft, props, etc will match up with the 8.1s you may appreciate the extra HP and torque. However if you are thinking of selling the boat within a few years, go with the cheapest option and hope for the best. No guarantees is not a good point on those replacement engines though. I am sure you will get a lot of opinions on this.

How old were the risers and elbows that failed??

Erich
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Thanks for the feedback to answer your questions

1. In a 1990 Tiara 33 Open - great boat/winnebago
2. Shafts and props match on the 8.1's
3. No guarantee applies to all scenarios
 
Thanks for the feedback to answer your questions

1. In a 1990 Tiara 33 Open - great boat/winnebago
2. Shafts and props match on the 8.1's
3. No guarantee applies to all scenarios
4. Not sure if I will keep the boat - I had a Contender 31 before and miss the speed and manueverabilty.
5. I am not that familiar with the 454's - I am told they are bullitproof on the bottom end? any thoughts?

Thanks please keep the opinions and thoughts coming - I want to be more paralyzed in my thoughts:)
 
I am still wondering how old the failed riser/elbows were? If the other engine has the same year of risers/elbows, they may start to leak soon also.

Erich
 
Not sure how old risers and elbows are - bought the boat 2 years ago

This past week I learned that I broke a push rod and the valve is stuck on my starboard engine on my 1990 Crusader 454 350 model with 1600 hrs. After tearing down the exhaust, removing the manifold and head I saw that the piston was ok and my options began to surface. The reason for the push rod and valve issue stemmed from slight water intrusion due to worn out risers and elbows. My question to those who understand my situation is this. I can either re manufacture the heads and replace all the exhaust components on one engine at a cost of $3,000 including labor, all new exhaust components and 2 new heads. Alternatively I have an opportunity to replace both engines including labor with either Crusader 454 xl's at $7500 for the pair (300 hrs) or Crusader 8.1l at $ 15,000 (300 hrs ) My torment is I know the existing engines have 1600 hrs and eventually I will be dealing with the other engine soon OR do I just bite the bullet now and rebuild both my engines now or replace them with the second hand engines. Note: both second hand engines come from reliable sources but no guarantees either way.

Your thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated
Thanks in advance
 
the existing engines, with 1600 hours, don't have much time left...maybe there's been some oil analysis done that can quantify this...that said, we figured 2000 hours was typical service life on a marine block. I've gotten over 3000 hours on some (using full synthetic oil). if you use the boat a lot then it may be worth biting the bullet now...Don't know how things are down there but up here the resale market is still soft so I wouldn't expect to recoup the $15K if you went with the 8.1's and sold it soon...I would be inclined to recondition the bad heads and put them on with new exhaust risers and elbows (both sides) and let her run....I prefer knowing what i have done to engines sitting on my stringers vs investing in unknowns w/o any warranties...
 
I have done several valve jobs this year to repair stuck valves resulting from failure of risers and or manifolds.I expect the top end,with new manifolds and risers to last between 5 & 7 years(depending on use and maintenance).
 
searayray said:
I have done several valve jobs this year to repair stuck valves resulting from failure of risers and or manifolds.I expect the top end,with new manifolds and risers to last between 5 & 7 years(depending on use and maintenance).
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Agree I have decided to re do the heads, replace the exhaust manifolds, elbows and risers on the problem engine. The other I am debating to do the same minus the heads but I am going to do a compression test on the other engine to determine whether the heads should be done. If I strip all the exhaust parts incl the manifolds I may as well do the heads and get another 1,000 hrs out of the engines.
 
Agree I have decided to re do the heads, replace the exhaust manifolds, elbows and risers on the problem engine. The other I am debating to do the same minus the heads but I am going to do a compression test on the other engine to determine whether the heads should be done. If I strip all the exhaust parts incl the manifolds I may as well do the heads and get another 1,000 hrs out of the engines.
 
Symptoms? Your original post covered symptoms and results.If you're wondering if you can spot the problem before the damage is done then you should stop doing that and perform the Maintenance.
 
searayray said:
Symptoms? Your original post covered symptoms and results.If you're wondering if you can spot the problem before the damage is done then you should stop doing that and perform the Maintenance.
Click to expand...

I am asking as I have no idea when the other engine exhaust had been changed and wanted to know if it was possible to notice without tearing down the exhaust. Trying to prevent another water intrusion on engine 2
 
Just paid $3,000 to do the problem engine and a little short on cash now and just asking of there was a way without tearing down the exhaust
 
From what I have read, there is no true way to tell if the riser/elbows are leaking yet or about to leak. There could be just a very thin wall left between the raw water side and the exhaust area that could burst through at any time. If you see rust stains in the manifold that would indicate water has been leaking down in the manifold and probably getting burnt off without causing any problem...YET. By the time you get it all apart, why not just replace them and now you know how old they are and when to replace again as part of your regular preventive maintenance.
 
erich said:
From what I have read, there is no true way to tell if the riser/elbows are leaking yet or about to leak. There could be just a very thin wall left between the raw water side and the exhaust area that could burst through at any time. If you see rust stains in the manifold that would indicate water has been leaking down in the manifold and probably getting burnt off without causing any problem...YET. By the time you get it all apart, why not just replace them and now you know how old they are and when to replace again as part of your regular preventive maintenance.
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Agree its just money:mad: the plugs are all the same colr unlike the other engine that had some reddish colored plugs so that was an indicator of water intrusion. I guess I answered my own question:confused: Just thought there may be another way of knowing
 
I wish there was another way as well.Long time boaters seem to have no second thoughts when they see seemingly good risers and manifolds they just paid to have replaced.In the long run the pain of payment is soothed by the knowledge of safe passages.
Best of luck to you.
 
searayray said:
I wish there was another way as well.Long time boaters seem to have no second thoughts when they see seemingly good risers and manifolds they just paid to have replaced.In the long run the pain of payment is soothed by the knowledge of safe passages.
Best of luck to you.
Click to expand...

I have a question for you - I checked the compression on the other engine yesterday and all the cylinders ranged from 115 on the low to 130 top but one cylinder had a compression reading of 102. I squirted oil in the cylinder and the compression went up to 120. What does this tell you about the overall condition of this engine? It does not burn any oil at all.

Thanks
 
Overall condition;Hard to say:Compression not all that good.Squirting oil in the cylinder created a smaller combustion chamber and subsequently a higher psi reading(liquids do not compress)Either you or a qualified mechanic should follow up with a leak down test.Raw water intrusion can wreak havoc on exhaust valves and guides.
 
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