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quaility oil for 1988 454s with 950 hours?

P

Pierre Champagne

New member
Hi
New to the forum and to my new boat, I now have a 43 wellcraft with twin 454 crusaders 1988 with 950 hours on them. Question is I want to change the oil to a good quality oil for engines with these hours to help them last, any suggestions would be great and anything else I should know about these engines would also be appreciated, thanks​
 
When I first acquired my 1992 454's I was using Shell Rotella straight 40W in summer and 30W in November / December until haul out. I have switched to Mobil 1 20W 50 full synthetic and eventually to Royal Purple 40W full synthetic. While they may be expensive oil changes, my Ford F-150 Super Crew King Ranch is now near 260,000 miles and it has been on full synthetic since about 8,000 miles. It shows VERY little sign of wear and runs so smoothly. My 454's had a top end rebuild about 3 years ago from some water issues but not lubrication related
 
knuckle47 said:
When I first acquired my 1992 454's I was using Shell Rotella straight 40W in summer and 30W in November / December until haul out. I have switched to Mobil 1 20W 50 full synthetic and eventually to Royal Purple 40W full synthetic. While they may be expensive oil changes, my Ford F-150 Super Crew King Ranch is now near 260,000 miles and it has been on full synthetic since about 8,000 miles. It shows VERY little sign of wear and runs so smoothly. My 454's had a top end rebuild about 3 years ago from some water issues but not lubrication related
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I know you can get Mobil 1 synthetic at Wally World. Where can you get Royal Purple? Is there a big difference in price and dependability? I've been using Rotella straight 40 in my 1990, 454 CID (FWC) Crusaders, 700 hours, but would like to switch to a full synthetic.
Nightstalker
 
Go to their web site....It will likely be the easiest to immediately get a pail. Then you can have a few months to scout out the local markets to find it. Muti weight is readily available at Pep Boys and stores like that but straight weight I have not yet found AND I LIVE IN NJ ! They only thing they don't have here is driving courtesy, anything else you can find.
 
knuckle47 said:
Go to their web site....It will likely be the easiest to immediately get a pail. Then you can have a few months to scout out the local markets to find it. Muti weight is readily available at Pep Boys and stores like that but straight weight I have not yet found AND I LIVE IN NJ ! They only thing they don't have here is driving courtesy, anything else you can find.
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Went to their web site. Looked up marine applications. Their products sell for between $8.95 to $17.95 per quart. The more expensive stuff I guess has different additives I guess for racing or engines being run under extreme conditions like marine applications. They list their cheapest oil for boats also. Are those OK to use? Which type should I use and what viscosity? 1990 Crusader 454"s (FWC), 700 hours.
Nightstalker
 
My 1992's have been using simply straight 40W synthetic. I do not intentionally use their "marine" oils unless for some reason they are the same and merely marketed at a higher price. My engines also have about 730 hours on them. I have also used Mobil 1 20W-50 and at WalMart its about $26.00 for 5 qts. I am also using their 30W straight in my v-drives
 
knuckle47 said:
My 1992's have been using simply straight 40W synthetic. I do not intentionally use their "marine" oils unless for some reason they are the same and merely marketed at a higher price. My engines also have about 730 hours on them. I have also used Mobil 1 20W-50 and at WalMart its about $26.00 for 5 qts. I am also using their 30W straight in my v-drives
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I've been reading everything I can about oils, synthetic and regular for marine applications. Opinions vary a great deal. I think I've got it narrowed down to either Mobil 1 15-40 synthetic or, staying with the Rotella 15-40 non synthetic. Rotella straight 40w is almost impossible to find in my area now.
Nightstalker
 
I stole this off the internet, so it must be valid.:eek:

"SAE Congress -

I reviewed articles from the SAE conferences on powertrain and fluid systems in Tampa, Fl of October 2004 and the Paris 2000 conference. See SAE SP-1894 and SP-1550. Here are some excepts:



Effect of Break-In and Operating Conditions on Piston Ring and Cylinder Bore Wear in SI (Spark-Ignition) Engines, Schneider et al:
The rate of wear is much higher within 15-20 minutes of start-up than after reaching normal operating temperature. There was a lot of data but I conclude that the initial start-up time period (first 20 minutes) result is 100 nanometers of wear whereas the steady state wear rate was only 4 nanometers per hour thereafter. (Hence we should be concerned about start-up oil thickness more than running thickness. This justifies the statement that 95 percent of engine wear occurs just after start-up)."

OK, what this tells me is to use a mult-viz oil, with low cold numbers. In my crusaders, they are now getting 10w-40. 5w-40, or 0w-40 would be better, all else remaining constant. Trouble is, you need to use a synthetic oil to avoid viz breakdown with age. This is why our old crusader manuals speced only straight 40 assuming conventional oil. Even a 0w-40 is quite a bit thicker at 25 dec C than it is at 100dec C. You simply must get startup oil into the bearing clearance areas fast, before warm up to reduce wear.
 
Dave,

That is an eye-opening assesment. Are you thinking that 10W - SOMTHING is a thing to try? will blending synthetics create a numerical average equal to these numbers? I guess the 50W capability part will always come down. Do you have a "breakdown age" in mind?
 
The following author is targeting the performance auto crowd, but the same basics apply to boat engines as well. Especially the start-up wear phenomena. He mentions that a straight 0 weight oil is STILL too thick at start up to minimize wear cold. You will also see that a "straight 40 grade" oil is tremendously thick at room temperature start up. It takes an enormous power to force cold 40 grade oil into small bearing clearances, etc. Your crusader metal simply is not getting proper lube until warm up.


THe following is a must read.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq.php?faq=haas_articles

In a nutshell, pick the large viscosity number based on oil pressure at the highest expected operation temperature. Minimize the viscosity consistent with obtaining full, hot, oil pressure. This number typically rises as the engine ages, with its increased clearances. This explains why some fairly recent advances in precision automated engine boring machines allow the use of thin oils. 5w-20 is speced in most Honda and Ford engines nowadays, even in the hottest weather. These engines have tight, precise clearances.
Minimize the "cold viscosity number", to improve flow cold. This usually means a wide separation of the two numbers (0W-40, 5W30, etc). It is hard to justify the use of any straight weight oil in internal combustion engines these days. That was not true in the seventies early eighties.
 
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Al-I wouldn't try to 'blend' my own without guidance from the OEM's tech department and two of Their bottles...too much opportunity for chemistry variations between the competitors.

Dave is spot on with the trends towards lowering the winter weight values...The diesel in the truck calls for 15W-40. A glance at the synthetic guys' web pages show they are recommending 0W-40 for the same application. Nothing like almost two decades of advances in chemical engineering to render certain portions of our owner's manuals obsolete. Look at how long an API rating lasts recently...seems to me they don't go much more than 4 years before another spec change is implemented. Also, on that topic, the newer stuff isn't always "backwards compatible". Case in point is the zinc and phosphorus reductions in the newer products (thank you, again, EPA).

Finally, on the 15W-50 mobil1 - I've found it to be a 'seasonal item', at least around here (@ WW). It should be hitting the shelves in the next couple weeks. If you like it, buy it before they stop restocking it in early March.
 
Since you put it that way......Thanks for the tip....I always had plenty of oils around here. A few more won't really matter. I still have a few bottles of 70Wt used in older harley air cooled engines and some of those you needed to pump oil into the bearings via a pump plunger up on the fuel tank. They were total loss systems. Some of the other American makers years before ( circa 1920's), actually had re-circulating oil systems.

If you didn't give it a plunger full every few miles, you were in trouble quickly, but it was always fresh oil.
 
I contacted Crusader regarding my 1988 454s w/1,400hrs and the recommended oil. The manual states straight 30 or 40w depending on climate, but Crusader said they now recommended 15w-40 in all their motors even older flat tappet ones. After much research regarding additives, etc. I have been running Delo 15w-40 LE with good results. Best thing you can do is change it often.
 
Running modern oils in a flat tappet engine without adding a ZDDP additive is risky. Some diesel oils (like Shell Rotella) still has enough of it to be okay.

Jeff
 
Jeff, that delo is 1300ppm. In the other "oil additives" thread I included the zinc level of that delo and a link to the pdf (I would include it now but on bb).I just picked up the delo at walmart for 12 a gal.
 
In So California....I run Castrol heavy duty 40W in my Twin 350 crusaders. Boat is 1966. Crusaders are not too much newer. Blocks have matching 1969 castings. Old girls still run good.
 
jclays said:
In So California....I run Castrol heavy duty 40W in my Twin 350 crusaders. Boat is 1966. Crusaders are not too much newer. Blocks have matching 1969 castings. Old girls still run good.
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I ran that same oil for many years. Unfortunately, it's likely that same oil has reduced its anti-wear ingredients over the last 10 years.
 
fastjeff said:
Running modern oils in a flat tappet engine without adding a ZDDP additive is risky. Some diesel oils (like Shell Rotella) still has enough of it to be okay.

Jeff
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Which Shell Rotella 15w-40 would you use, their T triple Protection, or their 15w-40 T3 Energized Protection?
Nightstalker
 
Yes that mobil 1 is low in zinc. I dug up this pdf (at bottom) that shows you zinc levels for there oils. You want at least 1200 ppm zinc. Each manufacturer publishes these specs. I don't use synthetic oil because it seems to seep somewhere, but I did for one year and later found it didn't have correct zinc levels. http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf??Ps if you select the correct mobil 1 product then you don't have to. 15w50
 
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