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Opinions of the b89 20horse

"Well built, super durable, ou

"Well built, super durable, outstanding ignition system.

My opinion, the best 2 stroke 20 horse motor ever produced by any mfg.

It is very difficult to go wrong with an 1986-on Merc in the 25 horse and under range....

And I'm not totally biased towards Merc (I own 3 but also have 2 OMC's as well)..."
 
"I work primarily on "port

"I work primarily on "portable" motors - which means anything that one guy can lift (25 horses is about the max).

And I am sincere - sure, nothing wrong with an little OMC or a Yami 2 stroke, they are fine motors, but the 25 and under Merc's are in a class by themself.

The power head and gears were engineered and built by Yamaha for Mercury (Yami makes more powerheads than all the other mfg's combined).

The Yami parts with Merc's Thunderbolt 4 ignition and a Walbro carb = super long lasting motor.

I have 3 small Merc's - two of them are 22 and 23 years old respectively, both with over 2000 hours of run time each and neither have had any repairs at all (except regular stuff - plugs/impellers).

And with the exception of a couple of motors that were out and out abused, I have never had to do any significant work on a little Merc - they just don't break..."
 
"Graham:

Am I correct that

"Graham:

Am I correct that the 40 cube twins--the 30 and 40 hp models--are simply larger, Yamaha designed, Merc 25s? They look similar in many respects, and the heads don't come off (a negative feature for modifications, but smart for "normal" use).

Jeff

PS: Have a Merc 25 powerhead mounted on an old Mark 30 tower and LU. Much lighter and runs strong!"
 
"Some trivia "What's i

"Some trivia "What's in a name"

some practical on-the-ground considerations part swapping in remote regions for one. For example, some Mariner and Mercury parts fit Tohatsu outboards and some OMC parts fit Suzukis and Tohatsus...

Mercury Marine
This company markets Mariner, Mercury and Force outboards and was the first to openly market another manufacturer's products under its own label.

Using the Australian market as a test bed, it introduced the Mariner label in 1975, which was a Yamaha-built motor up to 55hp and Mercury-built above this size. All the pre-mix Mariners operated on a 50:1 petrol/oil ratio, whereas from '77 onwards Yamaha switched its smaller (under 60hp) motors to the far cleaner-running 100:1 mix.

Until '75, Yamahas were imported by Burns Philp, but when Mercury Marine introduced its Mariner range Yamaha was prohibited from selling its own motors on the Aussie market until late '82.

The Yamaha-built Mariners established an excellent reputation for reliability, and even now many commercial operators and recreational boaters believe that Mariner and Mercury are separate companies.

The Yamaha-built Mariner 6-55hp models were replaced by US-built Mercury models through the 1980s, though in certain third world markets smaller Mariners are still made by Yamaha.

Currently, Yamaha builds the base powerheads for the Mariner/Mercury 9.9, 15, 25 and 50hp four-strokes, while Mercury Marine fits its own carburettors, legs and lower units.

With Yamaha Marine firmly entrenched in the local market by the mid-1980s, Mercury Marine formed an alliance with Tohatsu Corporation to manufacture single-cylinder outboards. This move resulted in the 2.2, 2.5, 3.3, 4 and 5 models, which were essentially Tohatsus apart from the paint (and later the base alloy).

Mercury Marine marketed these Tohatsu-manufactured motors from 1985 and had replaced the Yamaha-built motors up to 5hp by 1990. From the early '90s all these motors were built in Mercury Marine's Verviers (Belgium) plant, which also builds MerCruiser diesel inboards and sterndrives.

Late in '96 Mercury Marine introduced its Mariner and Mercury versions of the popular and lightweight loop-charged Tohatsu 30, which was followed in September this year by a Mariner/Mercury badged Tohatsu MFS5A, Tohatsu's first four-stroke outboard.

This will be followed by 9.9 and 15hp four-strokes (or perhaps 9.8 and 18 models if Australian Tohatsu distributor, Lakeside Ma rine, has its way) which may replace the Yamaha-origin 9.9 and 15 four-strokes.

Already, the Mariner 15 sold in Asian markets is a Tohatsu 15, so other Tohatsu models may replace the relatively thirsty cross-flow US-built models from 6 to 15hp.

The torquey loop-charged Mariner/Mercury 25 should remain for some time, though industry talk is that Mercury Marine wants to concentrate on larger motors (particularly Optimaxes) from 40hp and up.

And when Tohatsu finally releases its three-cylinder Orbital-Optimax injection 50, it will give Mercury Marine the chance to offer buyers the choice of a midrange four-stroke or injected two-stroke.

As most boaters know, Force outboards started life as re-incarnated Chryslers, particularly the 5, 9.9, 15, 40 and 50. However, to improve reliability and reduce manufacturing costs, the legs and lower units of 25hp models and up are from Mariner/Mercury models."
 
"Are you related to Graham! M

"Are you related to Graham! More good stuff for my Keeper File.

Thanks, Jamie.

JEff"
 
"Outstanding Jamie,

The hi

"Outstanding Jamie,

The history was quite similar in the US. I think the only fact you left out was that for a period Merc supplied gear cases to Honda who was having trouble building their own that would pass their "quality control".."
 
"Yes, unless you start looking

"Yes, unless you start looking at who built what for the smaller mfg's - West Bend, Clinton, Atwater, Eska, McCulloch - on and on.

That's the sure thing about a Yami. At least you know they designed it and built it, right from the drawing up. I don't think any other mfg can say that (over the longer term). Just about all the rest of them have used someone elses parts or had someone else build part of it for them..."
 
"Graham,

Is it such a bad t

"Graham,

Is it such a bad thing for a company (i.e. Merc) to go elsewhere for components for their products? This is not a leading question to pin anyone down, because I have mixed ideas on whether total solutions are better if completely engineered in-house or pieced together from a variety of vendors. If I was providing a solution, I'd hope to provide the best and if that means I need to outsource some components, then so be it. However, I do support the concept of being as self-sufficient and less dependant as possible, because I know I can save costs if everything is designed, engineered and delivered from in-house. But, from a business stand-point, keeping everything in-house requires much more overhead and comes with greater risks.

All that said, am I hearing, from you, a plug for Yamiha products? Do I need to discard the paradigm I have that suggests Mercury is the standards leader when it comes to inboards/outboards?

Mark"
 
"Don't get me wrong. While

"Don't get me wrong. While I do like Yamaha products and admire the fact that a Yami is always "pure" Yami, I don't think less of another mfg for using someone else parts.

Personally, I believe that the 1986-on 6/8/9.9/15 horse Mercs were the best little motors ever built - period.

And those had a powerhead and gears right from Yamaha. Merc threw their ignition system and the rest of the castings onto that and smacked a Walbro carb on the intake to feed it all.

The result was a totally outstanding little motor - in my opinion better than anything the individual mfg's could of done on their own.

Sometimes though a problem arises when the "cobbled" motor is assembled with long discontinued parts.

In the case of Force outboards, some of the models towards the end of the run ended up coming out in 50 or 60 (or even more) different model configuration in a SINGLE model year. That's a total nightmare if you own one of those.

The production line was running, they ran out of piece "x", so just found something else that would bolt on and gave the motor a different model number.

The Yami/Mariner, while you can't put them in the same class as Force, were however, built with Yamaha parts from Yami models that were discontinued (in alot of cases).

Not a terrible thing, but if you bought a 1986 motor which was really a 1981, discontinued Yami, you were behind the current technology and the parts availability's life cycle had already started ticking (before the motor was even made).

So in those two examples was the customer really informed? did they know they were "potentially" buying a disposable motor? did they know that it was a very real possibility that it would become an orphan once the last part was used at the factory?

I just think it would be nice if the mfg's were a little more open about their products.

Why pay more for a little Merc 4 stroke if it's just a Tohatsu. Ditto a little 4 stroke Johnson which was built by Suzuki.

From a parts stand point, it would be nice to know if the motor is a "copy of" or was it "built for" etc

I'm start to preach here - so I'll just give it up now
"
 
"Very good points, Graham, tha

"Very good points, Graham, thanks for that perspective. And, that also underscores why, just as in my profession, many companies provide services with tools that are developed, manufactured and supported by someone else. As a low-end consumer, isn't it shameful we have little leverage to secure support for products we hope to maintain for long terms? Well, I guess we can get that if we're willing to pay the price.
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"Another excellent piece by Si

"Another excellent piece by Sir Graham!

The bottom line is, make a profit or go under (as many companies are about to do). For that reason Crazy Carl used (now precious) Mark 20H leftovers on--of all things--the bargain basement Wizards!

Jeff"
 
"Here in Aus Yamaha came onto

"Here in Aus Yamaha came onto the market and advised us omc dealers that most of our service tools would suit most applications when working on yams when you look at the early v6 yams they do look like a cross flow v6 omc engine
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"Excellent info there Jamie. O

"Excellent info there Jamie. One of teh big reasons I went out looking for a god used Mariner twin was teh fact I knew they were ridiculously reliable and made by Yamaha. On Sydney Harbour about 15-25 years ago, EVERY workboat used a Mariner twin of some sort. I've seen people try very hard for many years to kill them and they can't. They don't even corrode horrendously in a salt water environment.
Just a point of note though, Australia did have a 60 twin sold here, I've got one and have seen three others on Ebay in the last two months.

Regards, Andrew."
 
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