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Ocean pro smoking alot

S

saltlife321

Contributing Member
"I posted an ad about this pro

"I posted an ad about this problem before and I have done several things to the motor since. Its a 94' 200 ocean pro. The motor starts up fine and runs well till it warms up, then during neutral idle it seems to load up and starts to bellow white smoke out of the exhaust. If I don't increase throttle the motor seems to bog out and shut off. I have pulled the heads and checked for water in the cylinders and have pulled the intake cover and inspected the carbs. Replaced fuel source with a secondary tank. And have replaced the water/fuel filter. New plugs and wires. The smoke smells like two stroke and there seems to be a lot of fuel residue(gray film) in the prop hub. Compression is 105 psi on all cylinders. Someone before mentioned that I should check the vacuum lines that clean out the old fuel from the cylinders but I'm concerned that its something else due to the amount of smoke coming from the engine. The smoke will thin out after holding the motor at about 1800 rpms, but quickly loads back up and shuts off. Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated as I cannot afford to take my motor to the shop. Sorry for the story. Thanks P.s. Oil injection has been disconnected."
 
Between the carbies and intake

Between the carbies and intake ports is a long distance for the fuel to stay atomised and stay in the air. Unfortuantly gravity takes over and the fuel falls to the bottom in the transfer ports and puddles and the longer the engine idles the puddling gets worse. So the engine manufacturer place bleed lines at the transfer ports to take away excess fuel...if the one way check valves stuff up the engine will run rich at that or any other cyclinder which has a problem with the bleed valves and lines.

The problem can be compounded by the engine running too cold! especially if you dont have the thermostates fitted !!!!
 
Would this problem cause thick

Would this problem cause thick white smoke to come out of the engine? Why would it cause the motor to shut off if its in the exhaust ports? Or is it puddling in the intake ports also? What do you mean (fitting the thermostats)? Thanks for your help. (self taught mechanic in training)!!
 
"I have checked every valve/po

"I have checked every valve/port known to man on this motor. Everything checks out fine. Motor still smokes. With the compression being 105psi per cylinder is there a possibility of blow by? Or should I start my search somewhere else. I did a compression test on the port side motor and it came back at 120psi per cylinder. The port side motor runs great. I am running the thermos. Port side motor seems to heat up to the same degree. What else could be causing this problem? Possible fuel pump problem? Im really stuck. My last resort is to have the motor re-built. I hope it does not have to come to that.
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"VRO motor? If so, and it wer

"VRO motor? If so, and it were mine, I would switch the VRO pumps and see if the problem shifts with them."
 
"A 15PSI difference between th

"A 15PSI difference between the two motors is a little concerning, but if you have 105PSI on all 6 cylinders you should be okay.

If your recirculation lines are all in place and in good working order that means there is one simple explanation: You are flooding the engine.

Have you checked the butterflies to make sure they are all positioned identically? Decreased air flow will result in a rich condition on any cylinder(s)that have the butterflies closed more than the others.

Have you disassembled the carbs and made sure the needle valves are in good shape and the floats are properly set? If you have a needle valve that isn't closing due to a worn Viton tip or seat, it will allow too much fuel to flow into that cylinder.

Also, if the float is set too low it will never close the needle completely and it will allow excess fuel flow. To set the float level you should remove the bowl and hold the carb upside down. The float should be exactly level or the end opposite the needle should be ever so slightly raised.

One other thought is your primer system. Is it possible there is a problem with your primer and it's allowing excess fuel to dump into the carbs?

If your thermostats are in place and your recirculation lines are correct, your problem has to be one of the things I have mentioned.

KJ"
 
One thing that I forgot to men

One thing that I forgot to mention is that when I pulled my heads the inside of the heads were completely clean. There was zero carbon build-up on them. I have spoke to several local mechanics about this and all of them suggest that I'm getting water inside the heads. It literally looks like the inside of the heads were sand blasted there so clean. What do you this about this? There should be a little carbon build up on a 200 plus hour motor. No? The carbs seem to be operating properly. But I have not pulled the points out and checked to see what condition there in.
 
The colour of the smoke out th

The colour of the smoke out the back is white (from previous post)

This would indicate possible steam coming out rather than smoke??

Yes there should be some carbon build up on 200hrs of usage.

What oil are you mixing with your fuel?
 
The white smoke is probably st

The white smoke is probably steam. If the head gaskets are not leaking it could be a cracked block.

Check the heads and block for warpage with a straight edge and feeler gauge; .002 in. is the maximum tolerance.
 
He states that all cylinder co

He states that all cylinder combustion chambers are clean. All 6. How can water get to all six on this motor?
This is baffling.
 
"There is no block warpage. J

"There is no block warpage. Just had the head covers re-done today. I have to get an intake manifold gasket before I can run the motor again. If this does not work the only other thing Im going to check is the primer system. If theres no problem with the primer system, Im going to tear it down and re-build it. Thank you everyone for your help. Im keeping my fingers crossed."
 
"So it looks like Im going to

"So it looks like Im going to have to rebuild this motor. I have pulled the heads and inspected the cylinders. Everything seems to be fine no scarring or scoring. My plan was to mic the cylinders and check the pistons. If all comes back in good order I want to put new rings back in with the old pistons. Is this just prolonging failure, or should I go with new pistons, rings and new bore. Im trying to save as much money as I can considering I have not even been able to run the boat yet so I dont even know what surprises are still waiting for me. Thanks."
 
"i would not re-use those pist

"i would not re-use those pistons...and there is some mod's that will enhance ur cooling system...i have already had a cpl done at this place,go here to read good info ---> mar-fab.com"
 
Jwb Im not sure theres anythin

Jwb Im not sure theres anything wrong with the pistons. I have not done any testing yet but I have been reading the manual that I have (seloc) and it says if your going to go through the trouble the tear the power head apart then you should put new rings back in upon reassembly with the old pistons. I dont have any piston damage and my compression is 105psi per cylinder. I guess my question is has anyone done this and had success? I have ruled my problem to be blow by. This being the reason for the re-build. I was told that my rings were worn out thus causing the blow by. If thats all thats wrong with the motor being that the cylinders mic to factory specs and the pistons arent warped or chipped or scored then whats the hurt in re-using them. Im not looking to pay someone to do this for me as Im not going to pay 3400 for the powerhead to be rebuilt. I would junk the motors and put a set of running used ones on it before I break down and pay that much for a rebuild. Thats the reason for my questions. thanks.
 
"One thing is scored pistons,

"One thing is scored pistons, but just as severe might be glazed pistons.
The modification mentioned earlier on the block I think is just a drilling of an extra hole to purge out air trapped under the regulator, JWB may correct if wrong.
Post some pick when down."
 
"i wanted to take pix of the l

"i wanted to take pix of the last one we had done,but there was no time,and no camera,...they drill sev holes,enlarge deflector areas and use thier own.and increase cooling area around i think,# 1,but cant remember..i will be sending my own 200 up there the sec it blows..wiseco,is aware of the piston pin prob and has addressed the problem.similiar to the 77-78 140's that blew due to piston ring pins and high ring pistons."
 
"For what it's worth, I am

"For what it's worth, I am afraid you are making a serious mistake by throwing an engine rebuild at this smoking problem.

My bet is you re-ring it, put it back together, and it still smokes."
 
"What else do you think it cou

"What else do you think it could be Doug? I have gone through all of the other options of what could be causing the smoke. Carbs,thermos,re- circulation, fuel,plugs wires. Theres no oil injection anymore and the port side motor doesnt smoke. Im running out of problems to look for. SOMEBODY HELP!!!!!!!!!! On top of that im not sure that having my cooling system modified is going to do anything. Why would the cooling system/ports cause the motor to smoke. The motor is in tact. The water pump flows great and the motor doesnt get hot. More or less the cooling system seems to be working fine."
 
"I agree w/doug....c ooling mo

"I agree w/doug....c ooling mod's have nothing to do with ur problem,i mentioned them,if u were going to overhaul it...have u ck'ed eng temp's..?...cleaned carbs,set float levels correctly?..correct,and new plugs?...run some seafoam in it...if ur compression numbers are ok,i sure would'nt bust it down."
 
"ok,reread ur post,..comp is g

"ok,reread ur post,..comp is great,..change all the recirculation valves,and hoses,along w/the other items in my last post."
 
"are these engines,plumbed,to

"are these engines,plumbed,to the same fuel tank?..do u run the other more than the problem one?...here is the recirc info--> 0436194 FITTING, Recirculating 6 $12.77 USD"
 
"Well, I knew you were gonna a

"Well, I knew you were gonna ask that....

I don't know....I have been following and thinking on this thread for a while.....

Facts:

Engine loads up after a few mins of running, starts smoking excessively.
Engine stalls out eventually unless idled up to prevent the bog stall.
You have good even compression at 105 on all 6.
You have pulled the heads and found what looks like steamed combustion chambers on all 6....???? Weird.
You have checked all recirc valves.
You are running 50:1 premix.

Questions:
There are two recirc valves per cyl. One threaded into the sides of the cyls, and one on the crankcase surface near each reed box behind the throttle plates. Looks like a little screen about 1/2 " in diameter. I assume you only checked the ones on the sides of the cyls. One way air flow only on those. Right?

VRO oil injection is disabled, oil inlet to the pump is plugged tightly, and the electrical connector is disconnected. Right?

Can you get an IR thermometer and post the head temps (six places) taking the temp about 1/2" to the side of each spark plug? My engine runs consistently at 142-148 across all 6. This is when in a tank or on the water...no muffs.
You are still running the thermostats. Right?

Your carbs...are they the fixed idle jet type, or are they the adjustable idle screw type. I have played with the adjustables and usually set them at 5 turns out to start with. Turn one in all the way, count the turns, and then back it out to where it was. Post the turn count.
Are you absolutely sure your floats are set right? Needles and seats sealing right?

If there is a large fuel leak anywhere (like a needle and seat), your primer bulb will not get firm...it will always be mushy...how about that? Primer bulb tight and firm?

Primer solenoid...are you sure it is not leaking? Now that one could be it. Leaking primer solenoid during cold running may not be noticed, but after warm-up...smoke and rough idle, and bog. Clamp off the fuel inlet line to the primer solenoid to test.

How do your plugs look? Are they nice and tan, but wet, or are they steam cleaned also?

I hate to ask you this, but can you post pics of the combustion chambers that look steam cleaned?

So much more to ask you...but start with these issues...
I will look forward to the answers..."
 
There is no such thing as blow

There is no such thing as blow by on a two stroke!
Tearing the engine down and changing things like pistons or rings is a waste of time.
You have a flooding problem.
A rich mixture washes away the carbon on heads and pistons.
The name for it is called piston wash!
 
"another thing,are u sure,..wh

"another thing,are u sure,..what u r seeing,is SMOKE and not steam,..since u say things looked 'steam cleaned' this is an indication,of water intrusion.."
 
"I re-read this whole post.
I

"I re-read this whole post.
I answered some of my own questions.
You have fixed idle air jets...so don't worry about counting turns, etc.
The recirc valve issue is more complex than the few words that have been written here. On shop.evinrude.com, look up your engine, and on the cyl/crankcase page, zoom in on the lower crankcase, looking at parts 10, 11, and 12. Those fittings/recirc valves/check valves are all part of the recirc system. The hoses cross connect i.e. the hose from cyl #1's drain fitting (part 10) goes to the side of the intake recirc valve for cylinder #2. Cyl #2's hose goes to cyl #1's intake recirc valve.
This is straight from the book, page 2-38, hose routing map.
There is also a check valve from lower #6 to upper crank bearing area, while you are there checking things. Grey plastic.

Are you absolutely sure your primer solenoid is not leaking?...this would explain your symptoms."
 
"I switched the primer from th

"I switched the primer from the good engine to the bad engine and got the same result. I have gone through the carbs. I have removed the intake and pulled out each of the one way valves in between the intake and the intake manifold. I have tested every line per the procedure in the manual and everything seems to be operating fine. I have looked at the hose routing for the recirculation hoses and everything is hooked up properly. The gray plastic valve with the arrow on the side of it is working properly. During the brake down of the carbs and intake I inspected the Parts listed. 10,11,12. Everything seems to be doing its job. I have posted a video of the motor running. The only reason its staying running is cause the carbs are being held open a tiny bit. Once you let go of the carbs it will load up more and shut off. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biMP9qFtSsM"
 
"One thought I had.....Not sur

"One thought I had.....Not sure if the vapor seperator is set up similar to the eagle V6 150-175. If so..... What if the vst needle/seat was bad, and the vapor pump was weak or had a bad diaphram? At idle, the vst would fill up and spill into the vapor pump, which would send fuel into the engine loading it up. When underway, the vapor pump wouldn't keep up, the vst would empty out causing the engine to run lean leading to the lack of carbon. Now that I think of it, would an issue with the VRO have the same effect? Fuel entering through the pulse line at idle, coupled with lean operation at power.

Just an off the wall thought. Sounds like you covered all the typical stuff, time to start with the non-typical."
 
When you look at your linkage

When you look at your linkage does your timer start to move just before your carb butterflies or vice versa?
Also just to clear up another point.
A lean running engine WILL build up carbon on the piston top and the head.
A rich running engine will wash it all off.
The ultimate mixture will leave piston wash marks (clean piston with no carbon )about half of a fingernail size on the piston top beside each intake port.
That is the best way to determine your mixture and carb settings.
Trying to read spark plugs is wrong and will lead you to engine failure!
The engine in the flick there looks like too cold with too much gas and perhaps even late timing.
The piddle stream even looks too big!
An engine at idle would have a hard time heating that much water flow and would just stay running cold unless you are on the throttle and working it harder.
Did someone remove the end off of that piddle hose?
 
"Where is the vapor separator?

"Where is the vapor separator? Not sure if this motor has one? As far a piston wash, When I removed the heads there was carbon on the pistons with spots on the side of the pistons that where clean. Heres some pics. I didnt take a pic of the heads but they were clean with no carbon build up at all. Looked like fresh aluminum.
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cylinders"">
295168.jpg
cylinder2
 
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