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new oil cooler install - problem on both sides

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bobct

Advanced Contributor
I installed two brand new oil coolers on Sat. I ran both engines at the slip just to make sure I didn't have oil spraying all over the place but I knew they weren't really "tested".

Took it for a short run tonight, less than two miles and both engines ran at least 10 degrees hotter (and climbing) as the RPM's climbed. My port engine was a little over 190 and in the low 170's last Friday. Starboard was at least a 10 degree difference.

I dropped the hook and started checking the dipsticks. Both oil and BOTH trans dipsticks look a little funny. The fluids sort of wick away from the edges almost like there's a little wax on them. At first I thought it was water but the color looks fine. It didn't look like this before. The color didn't change when I checked again back in the slip. I would have expected the oil to get a little coffee looking if there was an internal leak. And now that I think it through, it would have to be four internal leaks right? I probably went a total of 3-4 miles.


Some sort of residue from the manufacturing process? It seems highly unlikely that I would get two defective coolers giving the exact same results. It also seems unlikely that I could have done something wrong (x2) but grill me just in case. I checked the Crusader manual just to see if I missed something but I don't see the oil cooler listed anywhere? Was I supposed to flush them first?

Other observations:

1) The new coolers are slightly different. One of the hose connections is a 45 instead of being straight. I installed new 1.25" with wire and now it has a slight curve instead of being straight.

2) One of the oil cooler lines on each side is slightly kinked. I think because of the age of the hose it's not quite staying in shape and the position of the fitting dictates that. I could move the fitting but then it would be really close to the pulley (it's close already, so was the old one). It's maybe a 10% difference, I'm going to order new hose tomorrow regardless. "Kinked" might be too strong a word, it might have been like this for years.

What do you guys think? Maybe I have two different issues happening at once.

Bob
 
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Other observations:

1) The new coolers are slightly different. One of the hose connections is a 45 instead of being straight. I installed new 1.25" with wire and now it has a slight curve instead of being straight.

2) One of the oil cooler lines on each side is slightly kinked. I think because of the age of the hose it's not quite staying in shape and the position of the fitting dictates that. I could move the fitting but then it would be really close to the pulley (it's close already, so was the old one). It's maybe a 10% difference, I'm going to order new hose tomorrow regardless. "Kinked" might be too strong a word, it might have been like this for years.
Click to expand...

which hose connections are you referring to? (raw water, inlet or outlet, etc)

As long as the oil line isn't restricted, you shoul be ok. changing them, given their age, is probably a prudent step.

As far as anything special, it's been a long time since i've changed one. All I remember having to do was migrating the fittings and the mounting bracket, mount, install the hoses - really nothing special.

Did you check the tension on the raw water pump's belt? its drive surfaces' conditions? Maybe a bit of fluid dripped on the belts and they may be slipping a bit?
I'd be inclined to check the pump outputs before the cooler and then after the cooler just to make sure they are fine. never heard of a bad one out of the box but there's always a chance for that "first time".
 
Mark, the hose connections is the raw water outlet on top of the cooler. Where it was previously straight, now it's got a 45 degree sweep. That's why I used wire hose when I changed them. I was about 3" short with the old stuff anyway.

No, I didn't check the belts since they were fine last week and both seemed to be affected. But, I'm sure some oil spilled on the belts. I remember wiping some up because it bled through the towel.

Agree, it was a move parts over kind of swap. I did both exactly the same.

What do think of what I'm seeing on the dipsticks? I'm going to give Seakamp a call this morning. Wonder if I should have flushed the coolers first?

The more I think about it, I'm convinced it some sort of residue in the cooler when it was manufactured. Both sides look exactly the same. If they were leaking, it would mean they're doing it at the same rate. What are the odds on that, let alone having two defective ones?
 
It's pretty clear to me that you do not have leaking coolers. Just a little water in either tranny or engine will show up fast in the oil. Yeah, maybe some flux residue from the brazing. If you oils don't seem to wet the dipsticks like normal, change them. I don't ever seem to have seen this before. You don't want the oils to be avoiding metal, that's for sure.
This will be unrelated to your overheating issue. What is the story with the raw water pumps? Is there exhaust steam?
 
Dave, I'm going to call Seakamp in a little while, they're on the west coast. I think you're right and if so, I'll go ahead and change fluids on both sides. Figures, I just did an oil change on the port engine last week :(

The stb side raw water pump is rebuilt, both impellors are new. Yes, they were steaming more than normal....the water temp is 80 degrees up here. It's just seems weird that this coincided with changing both coolers. I was max 180, usually lower at any speed a week ago.

There's got to be a connection but nothing obvious jumps out. I've been on both sides of this type of problem. You convince yourself there's a connection to what you just did and it turns out there isn't - it was just a coincidence.....or, you immediately rule out what you last touched becaused you missed something that was actually the cause.

I'll post back.
 
On the pump rebuild; in addition to the impellors, the cover should be checked for deep scoring and the graphite bearing should still be round. The cam should not be worn to where it has a sharp leading edge. Not too many years ago, I would just do impellors and bearings when noisy. I've since learned about the next level of detail in these pumps, and it does make a difference.
A real 180 at the thermo housing is a bit warm. I'm running a stock system in 85 deg water and get 167 deg. at 3200 cruise after at least 30 minutes.
 
Here we go again...that steam thing. Just for the information bantered around. I have 157 to 163 (approx) with hours of operation or all day long. Unless we are just putting thru the ICW no wake areas and I STILL have steam.

Bob. the cam in the pump body as Dave says, does make a difference and for me it was about 15 degrees which I believe is a lot. I might suggest if you are looking a a new cam, you can really see the difference with a side by side comparison but if you don't have the new one to compare it against, the old one doesn't reallt look that bad...BUT it may be
 
ok, I have an update.

I stopped by the boat yesterday and pulled the dipsticks and all four looked normal. But, they did after I installed the new coolers and ran the engines at the slip last week too. It wasn't until after I went for a run that the fluids looked a little funny.

Here's what I'm thinking. Maybe it was condensation in the oil and trans fluid that wasn't burned off. I went a couple of miles each way but it's the only thing I can come up with. After what you guys posted and my conversation with Seakamp, I'm going to put this part of the problem aside for now.

I started both engines in the slip and the port engine is about 20 degrees hotter at the gauge on on top of the thermo. I pulled the pump off, impellor was new in the spring and still looked new. The pulley had about 3/4" of rotational play... meaning turn the pulley and it rotate that distance before you would felt the impellor hook up.

So, I got one of my spare pumps (thanks Mark!) and will install it tonight. I had a brand new shaft keyway, installed that and reinstalled the old impellor. Both covers and cams look great. I also pulled the stainers and they were both clear.

Now that I'm fairly convinced I don't have mixing fluids, I'll run it and focus on the temperature issue. I know that port side was hotter but the starboard seemed hotter as well. After pulling the dipsticks, maybe I hit the panic button on the stb side temp.

After the pump, oil cooler is brand new, H/E rodded it out in the spring, thermostat new, all cooling hoses, coolant. I'll install a brand new belt when I put the pump back on. Both engines were dead on temp wise ten days ago. 175ish on the gauge which was around 163 on the thermo housing.

The water is warm, almost 80 degrees in LI sound which I don't remember in my lifetime. Can't rule out something under the hull on the intake so I'll see if I can take a dive under tomorrow.

Bob
 
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3/4" of slack....and it was running fine before????? At least you found a likely culprit.

Plausible explanation with the condensation. Given the local water temp, the air has got to have a lot of water molecules in it.
 
ok, here's an update in case this happens to someone else. The new u-coolers appear to be fine. I can only assume what I saw was condensation that hadn't burned off. The weird part is that I never saw this in all the times I started the engines which included a bunch of runs on the hard in fall/spring.


After installing the new/old pump, the temp stayed exactly the same which is about 10 degrees hotter than the stb side. At 3,400 RPM's, I'm reading about 190 on the gauge which is about 175-180 on top of the thermostat housing. I'm going to post separately about the timing and possible heat connection. The ratio between gauge and thermo housing on the stb side is the same but with that 10 degree difference.

In terms of cooling, my old u-coolers were just as good.

Bob
 
Bob; Do you have a hot water tank on your port engine? My hot water tank is on the stb and she runs 10 degrees. I read some time ago on this board, that this appears to be a normal thing. The engine with the hot water tank runs hotter.
 
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