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New H2O pumpnow NO RUN

C

cngw

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"200HP Johnson, 1987. Lower un

"200HP Johnson, 1987. Lower unit broke shaft Labor Day (other post regarding shift rod length)

Got another one, used the old pump (new last fall) and installed unit.

Tried to start it...just tries to catch on one, maybe 2 cyls. Does not start. Probably not plugs, but put 6 new ones in anyway.....no go still.

Inductive timing light shows I have fire going down the plug wire to the plug. Main fuse is not blown. (The hits on 1 or 2 plugs told me that I guess.)

Bulb pumps up good. Small filter under cowl is full of fuel when I unscrew it.

Disconnected the linkage to insure the shift rod is not throwing off the rev/fwd/start position. Moved throttle lever manually, still no go.

Any other thoughts to steer me in a direction. I have the batt charging tonight to test again in AM.

Thanks for any and all help, Greg"
 
"I guess I should have asked,

"I guess I should have asked, "How could a pump install affect the starting/running? After all, it will start w/ no hose if you want it to."

I am thinking this is unrelated problem and a coincidence. Right?

Greg"
 
"Sounds like primer solenoid..

"Sounds like primer solenoid...no gas getting to back of intakes when starting.
Pump bulb up, turn red lever to manual position, pump bulb again 2 times, return manual lever to normal run position, try to start.
If starts, debug possible electrical problem with primer solenoid. Primer solenoid should click when key is on, and pressed in.
If no start, pull either of the two small output fuel line off primer solenoid, and check for gas there when pressing key, or when red lever is in manual mode and bulb is squeezed.....If gas is there, look for obstruction in lines up to the back of the intakes."
 
"Thank you for that. I will tr

"Thank you for that. I will try out your suggestions tomorrow or weekend...and keep my fingers crossed.

Come to think of it, I do not remember hearing the click like normal when I pushed in the key!

Thanks again, Greg"
 
"Port side, midway down, forwa

"Port side, midway down, forward of (or right close to) the VRO pump.
Black cylindrical thing, about 1 inch in diameter, 2.5 in long with three very small fuel lines attached to the top, which is where the valving occurs. Has a red lever that rotates."
 
"Another thought...IF it is th

"Another thought...IF it is the primer, you were working right there when connecting the shift rod for replacing the LU.
You could have disconnected the primer solenoid bullet connector without noticing."
 
"Doug, ahhh the sweet sound an

"Doug, ahhh the sweet sound and smell of 2-cycle!

The "prime, red lever, prime" trick and it started right up.

Pushing the key gets no click nor does it stall the engine when eng is idleing like it used to, so, I have no juice going to it or it has stopped working.

Tracing wires.....it would seem origination is at the key/control box, then the harness, then back under cowl....would be the way to go to solve the problem.

Starting with the easiest, under the cowl, here is what I see under cowl (if you have time).........

The cylinder w/ the red lever (same lever used to fog engine) has a blk wire going to the main harness and a tan wire going to gnd....the inside bolt holding the unit on. (why they did not put it on the outside bolt that is easy to get to, who knows?) 2 wires

above that item, is the oil injector w/ input line, and bolted/connected to it on its aft end (it appears as one unit to the eye) is unit that has 3/8 fuel line in, 3/8 line at the top going some place down and over, another 3/8 aft and at the bottom going down and to stbd.

At the back side, appears to be a wire harness coming out that I can follow to a connector then wires (gray/blk/orange) going to the main harness.

Over/near that is smaller, gray plastic unit w/ 1/4 line going into the main 3/8 fuel line, and 1 wire going to a bolt (looks to be screwed into an insulated plastic holder) with another wire (orange or tan - wife says I am color blind) on the bolt going back to main harness. A second wire exits and runs to gnd.

Does any of this help in suggesting diagnostics to track the voltages and where they should be?

Nothing was in the way of my 1/4" drive ratchet when I put in the linkage screw to hook up the shift rod, so this may have happened (whatever happened) on the last trip and the engine started back then due to being hot.


When my wife gets home, I may be able to run a "feel" test. ie; she holds the key in while I feel around and move wires hoping for the magic click. No wires/connections appear to be unplugged.

Remember, the engine has not been started for 3 weeks since the drive shaft wrung on the lower unit and I just replaced it and the pump.

Thanks for the help so far and any and all suggestions.

Greg"
 
""The cylinder w/ the red

""The cylinder w/ the red lever (same lever used to fog engine) has a blk wire going to the main harness and a tan wire going to gnd....the inside bolt holding the unit on. (why they did not put it on the outside bolt that is easy to get to, who knows?) 2 wires "

This is the only important part regarding the primer solenoid. The wire colors are bothering me...you should have a black to ground, and a purple/white to the harness.

Anyway, disconnect the big red cannon plug at the engine to boat harness connection, and look for corrosion, pushed back pins, etc. Anything that may cause an open.

The key is pressed in, this supplies 12v to the purple/white wire, and feeds down the harness thru the red cannon plug, and then to the solenoid. There may be an open somewhere in the wiring, the key switch may be bad, or the solenoid itself may be bad.

You are just gonna have to get out the old multimeter and trace it down...

If you have a test light, probe the purple/white wire (using a piercing probe thru the insulation)in the engine harness at the red connector while your wife presses the key in...(key on of course)...the test light will go on and off as she presses and releases the key. If you can get these results, you can assume the boat harness and key switch are good."
 
"Thank you for the reply.

&

"Thank you for the reply.

"The key is pressed in, this supplies 12v to the purple/white wire, and feeds down the harness thru the red cannon plug, and then to the solenoid."

That means if I supply voltage, the relay should fire. I will try your suggestion later or tomorrow when I get another pair of hands and also try it w/ 12v to that wire.

Thanks, Greg"
 
"Yes, exactly. You can even u

"Yes, exactly. You can even use a jumper wire to test the solenoid, straight from the Pos batt terminal to the purple/white wire.

There should be wire connectors within maybe 3 inches of the solenoid body...for ease in replacing...you don't mention them...

I am still bothered by the wire colors....verify that. They are not right."
 
"Ok, wife not home yet, but I

"Ok, wife not home yet, but I can test this.

Solenoid has 2 wires. Blk to gnd. And maybe dk brn w/ stripe (OK, I missed that the first time! ;) ) goes to screw term on side of unit, w/ a black wire from the harness there also.

I gnded a test light to the terminal and when key is pressed B+ lights bulb, so voltage is ok to there.

I then jumped B+ from the starter and when I touch the screw terminal w/ the 2 wires, I get sparks/arcing at that time, w/ thekey on...BUT not pressed (No wife yet). Unless the harness wire is gnding when the key is not pressed in, sound like a bad unit. And looks like no fun to get the far inside bolt out.

What you thinking? Another step I missed here? I could add the B+ after taking the wire from the harness off. To test w/ key in & harness wire connected to terminal I will need another set of hands.

Greg"
 
"Instead of the 12v test light

"Instead of the 12v test light, I put the meter on the terminal and pressed in the key. W/ a 12.4v reading at the starter terminal, I get an 11.6v reading w/ key depressed, a seemingly normal drop for the length of run.

Sounding more and more like the solenoid, isn't it!?

Greg"
 
"You only have two wires to de

"You only have two wires to deal with. Leave the ground wire connected, and disconnect the other one. It should be "free in the air" and the other end should be entering the bottom of the soleniod. Jump 12v to that "free in the air" wire and see if the solenoid clicks. No click and large spark indicate a shorted (not open) primer solenoid."
 
"Doug, why they did not connec

"Doug, why they did not connect the wire from the solenoid to the harness wire w/ a plug, I have no idea. Using the stud just makes work.

By getting the 12v to the terminal via the harness wire, and the solenoid not firing, it sounds like it is the culprit.

Just to be certain, I will take the nut off and apply the 12v directly to the striped wire, but that is basically the same as having the harness wire that is connected to it via the stud supply the 12v.

If I still get arcing, what is next? Buy the solenoid and replace it? I bet there is no opening the unit to check contacts or anything else, right?

I will advise you of the test results if you think it is still worth pulling the wire loose from the harness wire and testing.

Thanks again for all the help. Greg"
 
I guess I am having trouble pi

I guess I am having trouble picturing exactly what you have got there....the solenoids I am used to seeing have an inline bullet connector that just pulls apart. Difference in motor age here....
There is no fixing the electrical solenoid...just gotta replace it. Kits are available for the fuel fitting on the top tho.
 
"Doug, the age must be the dif

"Doug, the age must be the difference. On mine, (and I am the original owner of the engine) from what I see, the 2 wires exit the bottom of the solenoid. The blk runs to the bolt fastening it on.

The other runs to the side of the solenoid to a post/stud there, where a nut tightens down on that wire and the wire coming from the harness, joining them for contact!

That was why I said, "why they did not connect the wire from the solenoid to the harness wire w/ a plug, I have no idea. Using the stud just makes work."

A connector would have made much more sense, as you said with a "bullet connection"

From what you just said, when I buy the unit, the rotating fogging/fuel fitting will not be on it new. But I will have to buy one.

Won't the old one come out and go in the new one?

I am inside now....I will look at this tomorrow, and check with the local Johnson dealer for the part.

Thanks again for all the advice....like having a talking shop manual! Take care, Greg"
 
"New unit is $165, dealer only

"New unit is $165, dealer only option. I am now looking for a used one, if possible, off of a power head.

Any idea if most solenoids will fit from say, 90HP and up, or is it 200hp specific?

Dealer here is checking for a used one, but I did not ask him this question. (do not want to irritate anyone!)

Thanks, Greg"
 
"Thanks Doug. I assume that fi

"Thanks Doug. I assume that fits my 1987 200. Looks like something I may have to keep an eye on if I do not locate one here. A couple of possiblities in the wind.

As I asked.....are they pretty much universal from 90 to 200 hp in case I locate one on, say a 140 around here?

I appreciate you locating that one for me.

Greg"
 
"Doug, (or anyone can chim

"Doug, (or anyone can chime in!) another question or 2 if you have time.....

I am going to pull my old solenoid. Took out the 2 bolts holding it on, when pulled, it has 2 small lines going up into the air-intake cover.

I thought I could take the top off w/ 2 lines on it (4 screws) and get the bottom off and in my hand.

But, another line from the cover is attached to the side of the solenoid.

It appears that I need to take off the cover, and perhaps move the VRO pump out of the way - it looks to be held on w/ 4 bolts. But to drop the VRO, the starter must be moved! It has a bracket blocking a VRO bolt access. All doable, but all a pain. Am I on the right track here?

If so, after the cover is dropped, it would seem that the end of the lines under the cover would have to be undone in order for the lines to feed out with the solenoid removal!

Can this replacement on the 200 be done w/o taking all the other stuff off? Not as straight forward as it first appeared looking at it while attached!

Thanks again for your valuable time, my apologies for taking up so much of it. Greg"
 
"You are making this way too h

"You are making this way too hard.
Twist lightly on all three small hoses, and slip them off the nipples that they are attached to.
Those nipples break easily, so light touch is needed.
Remember, the small ones vs. the larger one have to go back where they came from."
 
"Doug,

In order to "twi

"Doug,

In order to "twist them off," I would need to reach them. When the bolts/bracket are taken off of the solenoid, it and the hoses only pull away less 1/2 of an inch before becoming tight..... (not enough room to get my pudgy fingers or even needle nose on, especially with guys telling me the tubes get brittle and break easily!)

....That gap shows the small hoses, and enough of the large one to see a wire tie on it. Not even enough room to cut the tie!!

So, all the bolts then came off of the air box and it came off. That exposed the ends of the small tubes (looped over the carbs, no extra to pull out w/ the noid) and the end of the larger tube where it feeds a T joint - wire tied.

I cut the wire tie, then pulled the small tubes off of the T's feeding the carbs and then pulled all of that out of the hole at the back where the noid fastened.

Trust me, "way too hard" is the last thing I look for in any job. If the tubes had not come out, it would have been ugly....they were not long enough to pull noid from unit.

Now that it is out, when I put it back in reverse steps, I will loop the small tubes so there is extra and I bought another large fuel tube 2" longer to use.

I picked up a used noid today, so I will toss that on tomorrow if it does not rain like it did this afternoon.

Pulled my noid apart, the piston had to be pulled out w/ needlenose, real tight. When I pushed it back down, it was tight to go in and come out. 400 paper on it did not make it loose, so I was lucky a guy found me a used one.

No idea why it went bad, but I heard the same thing from 3 different guys today....."those things rarely go bad!" Just my luck I guess.

Thanks a million for all the assistance again. Greg"
 
"Doug,

After putting on the

"Doug,

After putting on the used one I bought, I opened mine. Repaired it. Now I have a spare. Might want to check bad ones in the future, some are fixable.

Again, many thanks. Greg"
 
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