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My PDS is out, now what? 1994 5.7

1stboat

Regular Contributor
I have a 1994 5.7 GI-PMDA. Attached to it is (according to RicardoMarine) one of the last of the AQ series drives. I need to replace the bearing crosses (u-joints). I have the transmission off of the drive and need to take the male end out of main drive gear. Before I take things apart I want to know if theres anything to take care not to do to prevent damage to the transmission. The previous post can be found here, http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/showthread.php?t=378669. If I'm not mistaken this is what I'm dealing with, http://www.volvopentastore.com/Dp-D...on_id.081220570--store_id.366--view_id.311922.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

Just spin the 4 5/16 allen bolts out, maybe a little heat, and twist the clamp ring back and forth to break the seal on the o-ring. In theory it's just to slide out but we know that's not going to happen too often. There will be a set of shims between the clamp ring and the upper housing right below the o-ring, keep track of these. Undu the fastener that holds the driveline to the input gear and slide the drive line out and your ready for crosses. The head washer, *21 in pic, "should" stay attached to the input gear but some times it stays with the D/S when you pull it so be aware of it and it's shimms.
Just give a shout if you see something you don't like or understand.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

Thanks Doc,

In my previous post, RicardoMarine, mentioned to be careful of the bearing box preload and I didn't know if things were going to start popping out when I removed the four bolts. I am going to print out the schematic I linked to so it will help me with the procedure. I also plan on taking pictures of the disassembly and reassembly to help others that may have to go through a similar procedure in the future.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

Theoretically, you should replace the Allen bolt securing the input gear, but that should not be a problem.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

My PDS is out, now what?
You install the new bearing and re-install the PDS into the Flywheel Cover!:D

Ed, I think that you can do your new bearing crosses if you proceed slowly and carefully.
Most all exploded views can intimidate us! Parts are shown everywhere..... dotted lines leading to who knows where.... looks like they are out of sequence, etc, etc, :eek:..... but don't let that scare you!
Nothing is going to spring out or pop out at you.... except this guy!
images

Seriously, it will appear to be more simple once in there.

The bearing box on your transmission is an integral unit (one pc aluminum) and when removed (via four 3/8" cap screws seq#16), it will come out as an assembly (seq#30 through seq#25)
One, all inclusive, attached assembly.... no worries!

Once the yoke bolt (seq#30) is removed, the universal drive shaft can now be removed from the main drive gear (main drive gear remains in the b/b.... it won't fall out!)

The main drive gear bearing pre-load on your GI-PMDA transmission is crush sleeve controlled, apposed to the earlier ones that are shim controlled (as I think Gary is referring to).
It will use the same basic seal surface part, that Gary is referring to, but w/ no shims here!
IOW's the pre-load control, for a GI-PMDA transmission, is via this crush sleeve. Crush sleeves are typically a one-time-use only!

Upon re-assembly, if you were to bring the yoke bolt (seq # 30) back to it's original torque value, you will be OK.
However, learning what this bolt's torque value was (prior to disassembly) is the tricky part!
We can take a rolling torque measurement prior to removing the bolt!
(Do a search on checking rolling torque values.... it's actually quite simple to take the reading!)
TM-5-4210-220-34_291_3.jpg


So, the risk that I have cautioned you of earlier, would be in not meeting this value, and/or exceeding this value, inadvertently changing the bearing rolling torque value. (with the type that Gary was discussing, it's very easy... same shims/same value!)
Ed, if you are going to error..... error on the side of a very slight increase to this value..... hence the crush-sleeve becomes crushed a wee bit more.
NOTE: This is not a procedure that would be covered in your OEM manaul..... so you're sortta on your own here.... and is where some hypoid gear experience would be helpful.

Can you do this? I think so, but again, just go slowly and pay close attention to what you are doing. You will be fine.

I'd probably not do this without inspecting these main drive gear bearings.... which takes this to a slightly different level. But again, you can do this without concerning yourself unless you were to feel some wear in the bearings.
For me, this is of particular importance with V-8 torque/horse power. Again, your call!

Yes to mild heat at the main gear case in the event that any of the four bolt threads are corroded.... generally on this drive and with this style shim pack....., these threads remain dry, and are A-OK.
But any heat also expands the main case some, making the integrated bearing box/clamping collar come out much easier (this is a very tight tolerance fit)

The bearing box shims (seq # 19) will be very self explanatory... handle them carefully... they bend easily.
There will be one O-ring on the bearing box that must be replaced.
There will be a total of four other O-rings needed for when the trans is reinstalled and filled with oil.
(We cannot reuse O-rings!)

The bearing cross replacement itself is very straight forward once the universal shaft is out.
If not using OEM, a Neapco 1-0005 will work as a replacement (watch out where the zerk is located... it cannot be in the bearing cap)
Any brand but Chinese, IMO.

I also would not do this without replacing the shift mechanism seal and O-ring (seq#s 51 & 54) ..... (this seal is a common source of water intrusion as these age) This seal is directional!

Eduardo or Gay..... if you guys have any other suggestions, by all means chime back in. More minds the better!

Good luck, Ed.... hope you get back in the water soon.
 
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Re: My PDS is out, now what?

I have a buddy who went to MMI helping me with this. I will print out the schematic and instructions to take with me to make sure we do it as you guys have suggested. I will head all your words wisely and take my time.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

I did it. :D Well my buddy and I did.;) Ok, ok; mostly him. He did go to MMI and does have a shop with a bunch of tools. I did help though. I took your detailed instructions and schematic that helped quite a bit. Especially, when it came time to take the bearing box off. All the parts look fine and everything operates smoothly. The rust on the parts on my previous post does not go past the surface. I can post pictures if you'd like. You guys are right, Volvo Penta does not mess around when it comes to quality.

NOTE: For those of you that are replacing your bearing crosses, take off the bearing box; it'll make taking off the U-Joints will be MUCH easier.

Now I have to get replacement bearing crosses. On the crosses I took out, it says 2015 on one "leg" and B3 4 (I put a space in between the B3 and 4 there because they don't appear to be stamped together on the cross) on an adjacent leg.

As far as replacing the shift mechanism and seal and o-ring, I did not remove them from the transmission. Should I replace them anyway?
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

  1. I did it. Well my buddy and I did. Ok, ok; mostly him.
  2. You guys are right, Volvo Penta does not mess around when it comes to quality.
  3. NOTE: For those of you that are replacing your bearing crosses, take off the bearing box; it'll make taking off the U-Joints will be MUCH easier.
  4. Now I have to get replacement bearing crosses. On the crosses I took out, it says 2015 on one "leg" and B3 4 (I put a space in between the B3 and 4 there because they don't appear to be stamped together on the cross) on an adjacent leg.
  5. As far as replacing the shift mechanism and seal and o-ring, I did not remove them from the transmission. Should I replace them anyway?
1. Excellent!
2. Ain't that the truth. It's the reason that I choose to own and work on them!
3. Hmmm, who told you THAT? :D
4. Three choices; take one in with you and have it matched up, use the Neapco # that I gave you, or buy the OEM bearing cro$$e$.
5. I'd trust my many years of experience on this one.... yes, replace it! Remember the comment about this being directional! See OEM instructions re; the tiny spring pin!

Note re; # 3 above:
At least take a rolling torque reading prior to removing the male yoke..... this way you'll know what to shoot for when the yoke is re-installed and the bolt tightened. Like said.... a slight increase will be acceptable!

BTW, you didn't see this guy, did you?
images


You're almost there now! :)
 
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Re: My PDS is out, now what?

My parts for the PDS came in and I'm about to head over to pick them up. I will order a new shift mechanism seal (#51) and the o-ring (#54) for it as well as the one on the bearing box (#18) while I'm there.

Where should I take the crosses to get matched up? Will a local auto parts place do (Discount; Advanced,NAPA). I don't have the money to get Volvo replacements (152 each).

All I took out of the bearing box was the male end of the yoke. I didn't disassemble the rest. I can see the bearings through the gap and they look fine. No signs of pitting or binding and not a speck of rust on anything except the surface rust on the yokes and crosses I mentioned earlier.

... and no, I didn't see the guy jumping out at me. You're definitely right, it does look much easier when the parts are off.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

A parts store will either have these, or can order them in for you, but he'll have to identify it first! :rolleyes:
However, if you are near any type of Off Road 4WD parts center, or a Drive Line Specialty company, these guys are more likely to have them, and are more likely to have a better price.
The advantage is, the guy behind the counter will take one look at it, and will know exactly what replacement will work..... you won't get that at a parts store!
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

I do have a 4wd center near by also. Not to mention, I found these on ebay, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/New-...tQ5fPartsQ5fAccessoriesQ5fGear#ht_500wt_1182; the exact volvo part. So I'm going to bid on it and see what happens.

I did get the shift mechanism seal and o-ring when I picked up my parts. Does the dog (#47) attached to the shift mechanism go on a certain way? I assume it's what determines whether the drive goes in forward or reverse.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

I've run into a little problem replacing the shift mechanism seal. There's a pin (#53) preventing me from taking the shift mechanism out. It's held in place by what appears to me a rivet of a super small allen type bolt (#52). How should I get it out to replace the seal?
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

1stboat,

I spent a long afternoon looking for the cross references for that u-joint.

I agree the Volvo price is crazy!

Here is the topic. If you go done to the 3rd message down you'll see the correct u-joint number for the available vendors.

http://www.marineengine.com/boat-forum/showthread.php?t=378363&highlight=neapco

I have also listed a specific auto that you can tell your jobber. For some suppliers they have to run a specific auto to get to their stock.

Most DIY parts stores carried the neapco and all those had the zirc fitting out the bearing cap(which won't work).

If your ebay deal doesn't pan out, the $30 Napa looks real good, it's forged with the zirc in a good spot.

Rick says no Chinese so the AEC is out and I wouldn't bet against him. I bought a pair for the truarc rings only(long story). They say made in America, but I believe AEC is a Chinese company, so I wouldn't trust them given how reasonably priced others are.

Hope this helps,
Mike D.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

If you go with the Napa you should get shorter grease fittings. I recall there could be a clearance issue that was resolved by using a shorter zirc..

I'm just looking to cover all bases, since I opened my trap.:eek:

here is the Napa link...

http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=PUJ344_0157685540

edit: or the same at amazon(precision 344) for $10 ea.. I would have ordered from amazon, but they only had one at the time.

http://www.amazon.com/Precision-Automotive-PRECISION-344-U-JOINT/dp/B000CJUH6Q

I also recall that it's a good practice to place the zircs opposite to help keep the assembly balanced.
 
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Re: My PDS is out, now what?

dazk14,

Thanks for the links. :cool:

It just so happens there's a napa just two blocks from my house. I will give the u-joints from them a shot. From the link you posted to a previous thread, it sounds like I want a forged cross; with a zerk fitting that isn't on the cap.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

Just got back from NAPA and I bought a pair of their P344 crosses. Stamped on them is GMB Japan. Are these ok or should I get different crosses? Also, the zirc fitting did look a bit long so I bought shorter ones as well.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

Both the $20 and $30 Napa crosses are forged including the GMB.

Based on what your telling me, Napa is no longer using the precision 344 and using the GMB as there top of the line product. Is that correct?

Just curious, does it look identical to the Napa online pic, except for the markings?

I have used many GMB products on the automotive side and they were very well make, so I wouldn't have any reservations using their u-joints.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

I've run into a little problem replacing the shift mechanism seal. There's a pin (#53) preventing me from taking the shift mechanism out. It's held in place by what appears to me a rivet of a super small allen type bolt (#52). How should I get it out to replace the seal?
That is a "spring pin" or "roll pin" as some call them.
You will need to drive it on through via a precision tool, and then carefully remove the detent pin, then retrieve the "spring pin".
The old seal will need to be carefully cut down one side (precision hobby chisel or ???) in order to fold it and reduce the diameter so it can be carved out of the bore. You will not be able to pry this seal out in one piece!

Do Not forget that the new seal is Directional and must be installed with sealant.... Perfect Seal or equivilant!

............... with a zerk fitting that isn't on the cap.
Yes.... an absolute must!

............ Also, the zirc fitting did look a bit long so I bought shorter ones as well.
Good call!


A couple of FYI's and BTW's here:

A Japanese bearing cross should be good quality.... it's the Chinese stuff to watch out for. Likewise with ball and roller bearings.

Even the cheapy bearing crosses are "forged", then machined! Can you imagine a casting holding up under any drive shaft application? Yikes! :eek:

.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

That is a "spring pin" or "roll pin" as some call them.
You will need to drive it on through via a precision tool, and then carefully remove the detent pin, then retrieve the "spring pin".

So, first drive the pin (that selects whether the drive is in neutral, forward, or reverse) horizontally through the bore?

Then remove the detent pin and spring pin? The last two look really small. I don't have anything that small in my tool chest. What do you suggest I use to get those out? More importantly, what do I use to drive them back in?

I do have some nail set, used to drive nails into trim and such.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

So, first drive the pin (that selects whether the drive is in neutral, forward, or reverse) horizontally through the bore?

Then remove the detent pin and spring pin? The last two look really small. I don't have anything that small in my tool chest. What do you suggest I use to get those out? More importantly, what do I use to drive them back in?

I do have some nail set, used to drive nails into trim and such.
NO....! You will drive the spring pin from within the detent pin. It is tiny, and you can't see it until you get it removed.
It will require a straight flute tool of the correct diameter. No nail set... no improvised tool.... must be the correct size pin removing type tool.
(I'll mic one later and post the diameter for you)

Do not drive on the detent pin itself... it will easily come out only after the spring pin is removed.

You really need an OEM service manual to be doing any us this, IMO.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

You really need an OEM service manual to be doing any us this, IMO.

In my previous post, a member posted a link to an OEM manual; which I downloaded. Also, I read up on the procedure in my SELOC manual. ;) I was just a bit confused on which comes out first as well as which way they come out. :confused:

Are these pins reusable or will driving them out ruin them?
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

In my previous post, a member posted a link to an OEM manual; which I downloaded. Also, I read up on the procedure in my SELOC manual. ;) I was just a bit confused on which comes out first as well as which way they come out. :confused:

Are these pins reusable or will driving them out ruin them?
Watch for errors in the Seloc and Clymers manuals.
Use the OEM, and use the others for some good images.

The spring pin is re-usable if driven out with the correct size punch.
You will/should see that one end is a leading end. Re-nstall in like fashion.
Maybe do a dry run test in the detent pin to see that there is enough friction... if not, replace it.
If you were to loose this spring pin hold, you loose the detent pin.... and you know where it's heading after that! :eek:

.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

In the manual it states that sealant should be used when putting the shift mechanism back on. I have a tube of 3M marine adhesive sealant. Will that work or should I use something different.

Also, it states that sealant should be used when putting the stop bolt back in. Can I use the 3M sealant on that or will plumbers tape work for that?
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

Permatex # 3 or Quicksilver "Perfect Seal" works well here. A light coating only so that the seal will not push any excess into the bore.

Again, I can't stress enough of the importance in knowing that this seal will be directional.

Not sure what "Stop Bolt" you are refering to.

.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

I think the manual is referring to putting a bit of sealant on the border of the entire shift mechanism where it mates to the bearing box since it's metal on metal, I could be wrong though.

The stop bolt is what the seloc manual calls the bolt that goes through the middle of the shift mechanism (not the four bolts that are at the four corners). I think it might determine how deep the shoe goes into the bore because it details how the shims should be adjusted when reinstalling the bolt.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

I think the manual is referring to putting a bit of sealant on the border of the entire shift mechanism where it mates to the bearing box since it's metal on metal, I could be wrong though.

The stop bolt is what the seloc manual calls the bolt that goes through the middle of the shift mechanism (not the four bolts that are at the four corners). I think it might determine how deep the shoe goes into the bore because it details how the shims should be adjusted when reinstalling the bolt.

OK, gotcha!
If in salt water, then I do seal the O-rings with the Perfect Seal, otherwise... O-rings installed in a correctly cleaned recess/groove, require no sealant... but we do grease them as to help them nestle into position prior to being compressed.
Your call!

I would not mess with the shift shoe stop bolt, other than to make sure that it is tight and/or to make sure that none of the spacer/shim washers are corroded.
I just did a transmission where several of these were very corroded. Two were bad and were resting against several more that looked as though you had just taken them out of the package!
(corrosion has no predictable direction or path that it routinely takes..... it is a rebel)

.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

Ok, thanks.

I should be finished replacing the u-joints/spiders today and will be ready to start resealing the drive and putting the PDS back in the boat tomorrow. Hopefully, I'll be able to be back on the water this weekend.
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

Argh! Problems, problems, and more problems.

I tried to put the PDS with the new bearing in, but couldn't because the outer race of the bearing I replaced is still in. I don't have anything small enough to grind off the old outer race. Also, I'm scared to gouge the metal underneath and create more problems.

Any ideas on how to get it out?
 
Re: My PDS is out, now what?

................. but couldn't because the outer race of the bearing I replaced is still in. I don't have anything small enough to grind off the old outer race. Also, I'm scared to gouge the metal underneath and create more problems.

Any ideas on how to get it out?
Not sure, because I speak with so many people about these drives, etc., but I seem to recall that I asked you if this had been retrieved.
You will now need some type of hook/slide-hammer/puller affair as to catch the sides of this and remove it.
Make sure that the retaining ring (aka snap ring) has been removed prior.
_91113_188086.jpg


If you were to sratch the bore some, it should be of little consequence.


.
 
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