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Low comperssion winter project

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partybarge21

Contributing Member
"Hello all. I bought a 1995 Su

"Hello all. I bought a 1995 Sun Tracker Party Barge 21 with a 1981 140hp Evinrude V4 (E140TRLCIM) this past summer. It runs OK sometimes but always was hard to start and never seemed to have a full 140hp and used ALOT of gas. To get through the summer I have been running the oil a little heavy (precaution) and using a can of seafoam every other tank or so.

I finally have my boat out of the water for the winter and have started my winter rebuilding. Over the last week I rebuilt the carbs, replaced the water pump, rebuilt the fuel pump, replaced all fuel lines and plug wires, and installed a filter/water seperator. I then reinstalled the motor put the water muffs on and WOW it fired right up for the first time ever. I tried it a couple of times over the next day and it fired up every time
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.

Sorry for the long story but trying to give you guys some background info.

Well the next step I did should have been the first step but I am learning as I go. I got a compression tester and cylinders 1, 3, and 2 were at 100-110 psi
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, then I got to cylinder 4 and uuuhhh 60 PSI
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. Multiple test and retests on other cylinders reassured my readings/fears. I put a real little 2-cycle oil in the plug hole and retested. Compression went up to 90 PSI. Ran the engine a little after the test and retested and back to 60 PSI. I actually could not tell by the engine running that there is an issue, maybe because it has always been like that.

So I pulled the top end (engine only) off and brought it in the garage for disassembly and inspection. I will start pulling it apart this week.

To my real question. If I pull it apart and somehow there is no cylinder or piston damage (hopefully) would just changing the rings be an acceptable fix or should more be done? I was wondering about bearings, thermostat, etc..

Sorry for the novel but I figure too much info is better than not enough. Thanks in advance for any help or info you could give me on this."
 
"Hey Eric...
Glad to see that

"Hey Eric...
Glad to see that you have a real concern for your motor..! The 140 is the last of the realy great 4 cyl. motors.!
if no serious damage is found with the piston in Question, then do some closer inspection....First, get the piston/ring specs for your engine..The piston must be well with-in specs, and the cylinder itself must meet factory specs..ring gap needs also to be with-in specs..If any problems are found, then consider a rebore for the cylinder in question...will be money well spent, and the engine will last for many years...The home backyard mechanc is fast dis-appearing from the scene becouse of hi Tech equipment required to do your own repairs..So, after saying all of this, take care of your motor...they are fast leaving the scene,and once gone, there will be no more....If I can help in any way, let me know...Tom"
 
Thanks Tom.
I will start pri

Thanks Tom.
I will start pricing all the parts I need to go .020 over just in case. I am wondering if I should just bite the bullet ($$) and do it on all 4 cylinders to ensure the motor does not have to be cracked open for another 28 years??? I am not sure I want to invest that much on a 1981 motor. I guess I will decide once I get it all apart and start inspecting and measuring.

I have all the measurements from Seloc Online so I have a baseline.

Has anyone done an engine rebore lately that could give me a ball park cost per cylinder or block. I know it varies by area and shop but I am wondering what I am up against.
 
"i did my v4 90 evin for aroun

"i did my v4 90 evin for around 1000.pistons,rings
bearings,seals,etc.that was only a honing job.
boring cyls will run a bit more.find a good shop."
 
"Thanks Charles, I guess I wil

"Thanks Charles, I guess I will spread this one out over the whole winter
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.

Well I pulled the heads off today and my wallet flew out of my pants and onto the floor. Cylinder # 4 is screwed. It looks like it will need a sleeve. # 2 has one score so it might need to goto .030. I see the pistons have .020 stamped on them so I guess I am not the first to open it up. Look at the pics of the head and let me know if you think if it can be smoothed off or if it is done for. One good note is 1 and 3 cylinders look great.

Bad groove in cylinder. Need a sleeve?
221015.jpg
Cylinder 4 pic 1"">

Piston in terrable shape. I am amazed it ran all summer.
221016.jpg
Cylinder 4 pic 2"">

Cover too damaged to repair?
221017.jpg
2/4 head"">

Close up of cover.
221018.jpg
Cyl 4 head
 
"That deep groove comes across

"That deep groove comes across to me as a cylinder that requires a new sleeve. Replace that cylinder head as it has many very small pieces of steel imbedded in it which you will never be able to remove.

Those steel particles would glow red hot like the glow plug on a model airplane engine. This would result in pre-ignition, leading to a repeat of your present problem.

When you assemble that engine, be sure to have all of the carburetors in new condition to avoid having a lean running engine."
 
That's usually the case Ch

That's usually the case Charles. They very seldom run after they're taken apart (grin). Couldn't resist.
 
"Yeah, it actually ran well &#

"Yeah, it actually ran well (at least as well as I know it to run). It had some starting and idle issues due to the carb and/or fuel pump issues. I bought the boat in July but as a boating new guy did not think of asking for a compression test. I am pricing parts now and not likeing it. Cheaper than a new engine though. If I had a little more $$ to spend I would get the whole refurb block ready to go. Oh well I got all winter to get it done. I'm thinking I will get a little more power out of it once done
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."
 
"I rebuilt my 92 J115 V4 last

"I rebuilt my 92 J115 V4 last winter/spring. My total cost was I think about $1600 CDN. I had the block rebored and replaced all pistons, rings and big-end and small end bearings.

I didn't keep very good record of my bills, but from memory here was the breakdown of costs:

re-bore: $800
new wiseco pistons/rings/bearings: $600
gasket set: $65
misc sealants etc: $100
tools etc.: $150

It was an extremely satisfying project. Quite stressful at times, but in the end very worthwhile.

http://www.marineengine.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?12478/150774

I have seen some V4 engines on eBay for next to nothing, so you could also go that route. The big plus of the rebuild is that you essentially have a new engine if everything works out.

"
 
"Eric--

you're 100% rig

"Eric--

you're 100% right that it won't be worth it in terms of mkt value to do all 4 holes....however, as Chris L correctly notes, this would replace nearly all the usual wear items and give you a basically new motor. remember that a new 40hp would be like $3500 US. seems like the Q would be whether you plan to keep the boat for quite a while. since you're having to get new head anyway via the fleebay route, i personally would look for decent complete powerhead....there are a LOT of these motors out there. you might also toss out a wanted ad on craigslist..."
 
Thanks for the info.
Update f

Thanks for the info.
Update for now is I got the engine stripped down and have been pricing parts. I just won an auction of a 1983 engine block that "said" it was never machined and looks smooth for $10.50. If it works out that will save me some $$. I can just bore them all out to 0.02 and buy one new piston and head (+ bearing/seal stuff).
 
"OK, I have a stupid question.

"OK, I have a stupid question. I have a large supply of diffrent tools but I do not have the correct socket to remove my connecting rod bolts. Is this a torx socket or something else? See the pictures for what I am looking for. I don't want to pick up the wrong thing.

A socket like this
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For bolts like this.
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Thanks."
 
like jwb said a 12 point......

like jwb said a 12 point.........or you can buy external torx sockets but these look like they were made for reg socket not torx.

i have a set but very rarely use them and im an auto mech. you would be better off to try the 12 point and see what kind of slack you have and if need be just buy the socket you need instead of a whole set.
 
another good investment is a t

another good investment is a tap and die set.

i know people that will rebuild a motor and never clean out the threads properly. ive made this mistake in my younger days and when you break a bolt during reassembly you want to kick your self in the a**.
 
"Hey Eric,

Are you replacin

"Hey Eric,

Are you replacing all the rings? You should I think. I don't think old rings would seat properly as they would be mated to the surface of your existing block. This is assuming you are going with the re-bored eBay block you wrote about above.

Chris"
 
"Yes new rings, seals, bearing

"Yes new rings, seals, bearings, etc. I got time on my side so I will do what I have to to make sure it is going to run reliably for many years.

I will go looking for a 12 point socket. Autozone should have one. I am an industrial mechanic so I have whatever you would need to fix manufacturing equipment but NOT to work with a 12 point bolt
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, for now....."
 
"eric,

just curious as to h

"eric,

just curious as to how much gas you use with a toon?

i have a '79 johnson 115 on a bass boat and i get 4-5 sometimes 5-6 mpg depending on current, wind, # of people."
 
"dont bother with the zone ,th

"dont bother with the zone ,they only carry standard tools ,I thought i could do the same thing.I ended up finding one at sears (craftsman)"
 
"yep......i think,both of mine

"yep......i think,both of mine---5/16 12p and 3/8 12p both came off snap on trk....and,i have had both for at least 20 yrs."
 
"i try not to buy too many too

"i try not to buy too many tools from the parts store..........i like the tool trucks a little too much though. 90% of my tools came from snap on, matco, an mac.

they are more expensive but worth it to me."
 
"David,

I have a 1995 21&#3

"David,

I have a 1995 21' party barge that "had" the beat up 1981 140 hp AND a chewed up prop on it (got a new prop mid summer). When I first got it I would pull the kids all over the lake at full throttle on a tube. I honestly would look around for the fuel leak each day. I never compared GPS miles to gallons used (should have to compare) but I did take a trip that I know about the mileage of while towing 60% of the time and came up with about 2-3 MPG on that trip with 4 adults, 3 kids, dog, and cooler
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.

I then got the new prop and it looked like I got good savings there. The prop was a 15 pitch and I replaced it with a 13 pitch and got better milage and 3 MPH more top speed. The old one was that bad. I never should have been running it I guess.

I am hoping that by rebuilding the whole engine and running on all 4 cylinders all the time that my mileage will increase
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.

And yes gas usage is much lower at slower speeds. As the price of gas raised up at the end of summer the distance from dock we travled got shorter and the throttle got pulled back more."
 
"Hello, it's been a while

"Hello, it's been a while since I updated. I got my "new to me" e-bay engine block (looks great), replacement piston, rings, etc and am going to look for a machine shop to machine the cylinders this coming up week.

My new question is should I buy the standard head gasket set or the low compression set? I do not know for sure but I think the marina on my lake sells 87 octane fuel. I may call to be sure.

Is this a valid question for rebuilding an older motor?

Thanks,
Eric"
 
"Well It's been a while an

"Well It's been a while and I thought I would post an update. I have my replacement block back from the machine shop with all cylinders 0.02" over. Replacement piston (cyl 4) and new rings all around installed. New gaskets, shaft seals, carb kit, water pump, etc. I am almost done assembling the whole power head. I should be ready to reinstall this weekend and get it fired up on the muffs. I will stick lower end in a drum if I need more debug running time.

I want to thank the experts on this site for all the info that has helped me make the right decisions and correct procedures this far. I only asked a few questions because 98% of my answers I could search for and were already answered on another thread. I am an industrial mechanic but NOT an outboard mechanic. No one can fix "everything" without asking questions.

This is an invaluable site and keep up the good work.
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"
 
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