identification help

[Greenery]

Hi, I'm looking for a little guidance in correctly identifying the type of bearing system I have (gimble, single pds or double pds)

I've searched quite a bit but have found conflicting info, or basically I'm just confused.

Here are the serial #'s that are still legible (barely).

Transom assembly
Dps (290) 4111521532

Engine which is a Ford 351
5.8fsi phurce
4110120061

Most of the drive unit # is faded away and is illegible.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated.

Just a side note, when I changed the bellows when I bought the boat a couple years ago the u-joint assembly was covered in surface rust leading men to believe that it had water intrusion at some point.
seems how the u-joint is rusty I would imagine my bearings also need attention.
correct?

Thanks again for your help, this site has been a great resource.

 

[RicardoMarine]

You have had several misnomers presented to you, and I'll bet that I know where this misinformation came from!


First... this is NOT a 290 drive.... nor a DPS.
The transom shield DPS designation is misleading.

Take a look at this schematic for the 5.8FSIPHURCE model.

http://www.marinepartseurope.com/en/volvo-penta-explodedview-7797017-21-10613.aspx

This is a main suspension fork and pivot tube geometry drive... not a Gimbal system drive.

Unless by chance you have the Borg Warner F/C and B/W -slash- Volvo Penta PDS adapter housing ...., the Ford engines used a single bearing PDS with a pilot nose on the FWD end.
(the crankshaft must have a pilot bushing installed)

This means that you will be able to remove the PDS without the need to remove the engine.
I would remove the transmission ONLY..... as there's no need to remove an entire AQ series drive for this work.


This should be a 6206-2RS industry standard sealed bearing.... about $14 or so.

No Chineese bearings!!!
Use US, German or Japaneese.

BTW.... this is an excellent drive system!

No rubber hubbed drive coupler
No annual engine coupler alignment check
No thru prop exhaust
Easy drive shaft bellows replacement
Better geometry than a Gimbal system
The Duo Prop lower unit can easily be added for better performance





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[Greenery]

Great info, thank you Ricardo.

Ok so after looking at both schematics. I believe I may have the Borg Warner adaptor housing.

Im going off memory but I do believe I saw part 8 on the Borg Warner schematic.

Does the excellent drive system comment still apply?

My local Vp shop was telling me I had a inner bearing which would require engine removal

How can I identify the actual drive unit? Which does have a duo prop.


So thanks again for your excellent help.

 

[RicardoMarine]

1.... Ok so after looking at both schematics. I believe I may have the Borg Warner adaptor housing.
Im going off memory but I do believe I saw part 8 on the Borg Warner schematic.

2.... Does the excellent drive system comment still apply?

3.... My local Vp shop was telling me I had a inner bearing which would require engine removal

4..... How can I identify the actual drive unit?

1.... SEQ #8 is a Volvo Penta flywheel cover clamping collar.
Either style flywheel cover or PDS adapter housing will use this.

2.... Yes.... and is has little to do with the actual drive unit.

3.... Like said.... if this uses the Borg Warner flywheel cover and V/P PDS adapter housing..... then YES... they are correct.

Keep in mind that some of these guys are not experienced when it comes to the last of the AQ series drives. They confuse these with the earlier AQ series drives whereby most all of the GM V-8's used a double bearing PDS. Ford engines did not!
Such as "large pin 290"... there is no large pin 290, but they tend to call them a 290.


4..... Again... it's not the actual drive that will determine this.

A.... if your flywheel cover has the Borg Warner bolt pattern, and if you see a V/P PDS adapter housing w/ a grease fitting, then you'll likely have a double bearing PDS.

B..... if your flywheel cover is 1 pc, is charcoal gray color, has no grease fitting...... then you'll have a single bearing PDS... in which case the PDS will come out from AFT.


BTW... this is a Borg Warner pattern flywheel cover with the Volvo Penta PDS adapter housing.
It's being shown upside down.... but you can see what it's all about.
This one is a double bearing PDS..

This is a GM V-8 1 pc flywheel cover very similar to your later Ford V-8 ...... which is a single bearing PDS.
(the PDS is not shown)

Dimensionally, each are the same.



************************

I'm curious.... where is this info coming from???

If a Volvo Penta shop is unable to tell the difference between Borg Warner components and Volvo Penta components, you may want to find another shop.
Plenty of forum members (not this forum) have pulled engines for PDS bearing replacement needlessly due to misinformation.
Don't get caught with your pants down!






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[Greenery]

1. Ok, looking at the two parts diagrams it seemed as only the Borg Warner showed that part, My mistake.
2. Great.
3. I gave the dealer the same numbers listed above, that's how they are determining what I have and need. You very well could be right about the confusion.
4. I was wondering more for future reference.
A. I will be pulling the gearbox soon and will check the bolt pattern.
B. I apologize for my inexperience withincorrect terminology but I think your referring to the cover inside the transom directly behind the engine? If so mine is a light grey and appears to be one piece.
the only grease zero I saw I believe was for the steering arm?


Some of my confusion could probably be due to me reading too much about it and getting confused.

I certainly will not pull the engine if its not necessary.

I am mechanically inclined just not familiar with boats and some of the terminology.
I hope to do most of the work myself.

I will be bringing in.the gearbox to have the shift seal and the input seal replaced (oil in bellows).

Thank you.

 

[RicardoMarine]

Me in blue text.

1. Ok, looking at the two parts diagrams it seemed as only the Borg Warner showed that part, My mistake.
With the 2 pc system, only the flywheel cover-to-PDS adapter housing are Borg Warner bolt patterns.
The 2 pc system may be all Volvo Penta, but Volvo Penta uses the B/W pattern for this.

Long story.... but using B/W bolt pattern F/C, and the V/P PDS adapter housing, allows for the use of some engines that were not OEM.
I once helped a man install a DP-C1 drive behind his 460 Ford by using B/W.

I know.... confusing, isn't it???

2. Great.
3. I gave the dealer the same numbers listed above, that's how they are determining what I have and need. You very well could be right about the confusion.
Yes.... as I see it, the 5.8FSIPHURCE shows this flywheel cover assembly, which is the 1 pc unit.... (I.E., single bearing PDS)

If it is 1 pc (like above) .... and with no grease fitting...... then this is very likely correct.

4. I was wondering more for future reference.
Ah!

A. I will be pulling the gearbox soon and will check the bolt pattern.
Pulling the transmission will allow access to the PDS, but it will not reveal anything else of use for you.

B. I apologize for my inexperience withincorrect terminology but I think your referring to the cover inside the transom directly behind the engine?
Yes....... in the Automotive world, this would be called a "Bell Housing"!
In the Marine world.... these are "Flywheel Covers".

If so mine is a light grey and appears to be one piece.
OK..... then that is also what Volvo Penta shows... of which would be a single bearing PDS.
This style PDS can be removed from AFT without engine removal.
Don't allow anyone to tell you differently!

the only grease zero I saw I believe was for the steering arm?


Some of my confusion could probably be due to me reading too much about it and getting confused.
Ha ha.... probably so.
Keep your chin up! You're doing just fine!


I certainly will not pull the engine if its not necessary.
Correct!
I cringe when I think of how many needless engine removals have occured.... and when I think of how many owners just roll over and pay their bills.

I am mechanically inclined just not familiar with boats and some of the terminology.
I hope to do most of the work myself.
You'll find these to be among the easiest drives to work on.

I will be bringing in the gearbox to have the shift seal and the input seal replaced (oil in bellows).
Suggestions:
1.... make sure that the person doing this understands the rolling torque procedure for this A style transmission bearing box.
2.... make sure that they understand the eccentric piston spring pin orientation, and that the parallel spring pin must be retrieved. If not, the next guy "in" will not be able to remove the detent pin.
(see images below)



Thank you.
You are very welcome.

Look at view #10 in the first image.
This style shift unit detent "spring pin" inserts parallel with the eccentric piston.
If not retrieved from the eccentric piston bore......, the next guy doing a re-seal will not be able to remove the detent pin.
The detent pin must be removed in order to remove the piston for the new seal installation.

In the other eccentric piston image, the detent spring pin is perpendicular to the piston.
These are always retrieveable.

The eccentric piston seal is directional, and if not careful, can be installed incorrectly.
I've seen my share of these installed backwards. The exposed bare steel eventually rusts.

All of this is so simple when we pay attention to detail......... but one knucklehead will ruin the entire bucket of apples.

 

[Greenery]

Finally have some time to work on this today. I got my shaft pulled without much of a problem, it did have an open bearing in there with a bunch of grease in the open cavity.

1. So from reading up it looks like I want a sealed 6206 2rs bearing (electric motor grade)? *edit I now see you already answered this question above.
2. I remember reading the dimensions for the seal but did not write them down. Anyone know off hand what they are? (my existing seal that I pulled had a 1/4" gap all the way around the shaft and the spring was broken).
3. I won't be able to pick up the bearing and seal for a few days so in the meantime I'm going to do some of the other maintenance. Can I safely run the engine without the pds? I would like to change the engine oil but need to warm it up to get it out.

Now on to replacing the steering fork bushings, shift cable and I'm sure a few other things.