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Frustrated Pulling shaft from motor to change baring

O

ollison

Member
I was told you do not want the baring to go bad on shaft from motor. I have a 1995 Ford powered 302 Volvo penta. My reserarch says its a single baring unit. Should be able to pull it from rear. I wish now I would of left it alone. I have huge slide hammer and a brass pipe cut open to squeeze and protect splines. I have to best biggest vise grips money can buy. I can only tighten it so tight with big channels helping. I get several big hits before it slips off. I've moved the shaft about 1 inch out. The baring is now between the to large C clips groves. It will not move anymore. I even took a 3 pound hammer and hit it forward. Wont move forward either. Havent tryed my 13 pounder yet. What the heck is going on? If I could just hold on tighter without slipping off. I even took my Drimmel tool and made a C clip grove on edge of shaft slid a brass pipe over it put a C Cip on and still hold tight enough. How can it move 1" and no more? I don't want to pull motor although it mabe enevitable. May not be able to pull it anyway with a stuck shaft. Been working on this for about 1 month. May never get the boat back in water. What started to be maintance is ending up to be the worse decision ever. I am a decent mechanic rebuilding cars, other boats, sea doos. work at Ford as mechanic for years. It shows to be single baring. I dont believe I could of moved it an inch if it was a double baring. The boat had sat for 3 years. RUST maybe. Help
 
Docksidemarineservices said:
Pull the engine. It will take about an hour. Then you will see what you need to do.
Click to expand...

ollison said:
Cant pull with stuck shaft. Right?
Click to expand...
That would seem to be correct in my book.
IMO, the 6026 bearing, within the bore, is likely NOT where the problem is .
(I don't recall ever having an issue with the bearing itself within the aluminum bore)

IOW, if the PDS will not come out AFT from the flywheel cover NOW......., it can only be that the PDS Borg Warner male splines are rusted into the female splines of the Borg Warner drive coupler.
If these splines are this rusted, I highly doubt that separating the engine from the PDS is likely going to happen.
IOW, at this point, what's the difference........ Stuck is Stuck... no matter which direction you approach this from.


I would continue driving it FWD a bit after having gained some AFT movement.
Perhaps repeat this many times.


The split brass pipe sounds like a reasonable effort.
You may need to build a "collet" of sorts, and some sort of "pinch" affair that would squeeze the collet onto the shaft with great force.
Talk to a good machinist..... they have tricks up their sleeves from having years and years of this very same type of frustration and experience.


Possible last resort suggestion to help eliminate the remote possibility of the bearing stuck within the bore:
With extreme caution, and with no possible fuel leaks or vapors present........, and a second person standing near the engine bay equipped with the proper Fire Exinguishing equipment........., try heating the inside bore of the Flywheel Cover snout with a small Mapp Gas torch.
Just warm enough that you can hold your hand on it for several seconds..... as you do not want to damage the two larger rubber cushions.
While warm..... try pulling again.
Like said, I don't think this is where the problem is.


Don't know what else to suggest, short of boring the access hole in the F/C that we spoke about earlier.
Access may allow for penetrating oils, heat, dynamite, C-4 explosives, etc......., the first two being the better options. :)

Kidding aside.... I walked one gentleman through this years ago.
He bored an access hole into the F/C, and was able to roll the engine over, and unscrew the three drive coupler bolts from the Flywheel.
This allowed the engine to be removed absent the coupler.
The coupler remained attached to the PDS, where it was later freed up and removed.


FYI: This PDS was originally installed from AFT.... therefore it must come out AFT.
This is FACT, not speculation.

You have what I'd consider to be an unusual situation and/or scenario.

These are the components that you are up against.
PDS, pilot nose and crankshaft bushing, and B/W coupler.





ALTDA-106A.jpg
12121.jpg
 
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Hi
I have been thru pretty much the same ordeal. Having a machine shop at my disposal I fabricated a special tool which worked reasonably well. It is a collett that you can thread a slide hammer into and the harder you slam on it the tighter it grabs the shaft. I've heard of some people welding a bolt to the end of the shaft and using a slide hammer with vise grips on the end to pull it out. I would use that method as a last resort. Let me know if you would like to borrow the tool and maybe we can set something up


Good Luck
Jon Allen
 
Thanks for your help. Id buy this tool from you. Welding might change temper of shift. I useally get 3 good hits before it slips. Love to see picture of tool. how much hammering did it take. 20 30 solid hits. Thanks
 
Hi Ollison,
I suppose every shaft that is stuck is stuck differently. If I recall correctly it took me about five whacks to remove it. I'll be at the shop thursday and I'll bring the tool home and see if my wife can post a picture of it here.


Jon Allen
 
Jon, that would be excellent for Dwin. :)

I'd not mind owning that particular tool myself....., although I've not found a PDS that I could not removed.
Fingers crossed!
I pretty much do the AQ series engines/drives only. If fact, I just finished a PDS bearing replacement today.
There was no grease in the cavity what-so-ever.... bone dry. :mad:The owners were very lucky that they did not suffer a catastrophic failure.


Dwin, perhaps you could shoot Jon a deposit, and he can ship it to you.
You'd ship back once done.
Just a thought!
.
 
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Hi ,
Ollison , I have the tool in my hands. I figure I'm into it for a hundred bucks. This would be the deposit for it. Give me some contact info if your still interested in borrowing it. It worked well on my DP/C1 and I suspect it will do the trick with your drive also. You will need a slide hammer with a 7/16-14 threaded adaptor at the end of it. This is the same size you would use for a large pair of vise grips. If you look at some of my previous posts you will find some info on it. I can try to post a picture if necc. but it may be difficult without my wife's help.


Regards,
Jon Allen
 
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Jon, not sure if this will help, but I just sent a PM to you re; my email address in hopes that you could email a photo to me.
If not, perhaps a text image via cell phone.
I sent both to you.

Dwin..... you still there???

Rick
 
Update on PDS removal tool.

Compliments of Jon Allen, here is what he and his machinist friend came up with for a PDS puller.
It is a collet and tube with an end cap that the slide hammer threads into.

attachment.php


Jon's idea is a killer idea, and one that I believe will work. :)



Here are some suggestions if it were to slip on you:
1..... create more taper between the collet and outer collet sleeve (i.e., more "wedge" effect).
2...... perhaps make the collet from brass for more "bite" against the hardened steel PDS.

It could also be easily adapted to push from the flywheel cover "snout"......, as apposed to using the slide hammer method.
Let's say a larger tube that would slip over the entire assembly (resting on the F/C snout ID), then the threaded shaft "puller nut" would push on this larger tube end cap..... thus pulling on the PDS.

I'm just not a big fan of "slide hammers" if it can avoided, and I would favor pulling/pushing/jacking, in lieu of the slide hammer approach.

.
 

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  • PDS collet style puller tool.jpg
    PDS collet style puller tool.jpg
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Sorry for the delay. Got to many projects going at once. I'm rebuilding a motorcycle, Sea Doo and extending a rebuilding boat trailer. Yes I will give you $100.deposit. My name is Dwin Ollison and I own a business The Car Exchange, 101 W 14th. Eldon Missouri 65026. 573-746-0506. Do you do Pay Pal or Credit Card??
Thanks
Dwin E Ollison
 
Dwin, I've continued to think about this and your ordeal and situation.... and Jon's puller tool.

Here's another "what if" for you:

Bore the hole in the F/C like we discussed, but bore it low, so that a punch can be placed at/on the inner B/W splined hub of the Drive Coupler.
FC Ford V8 single brg PDS modified for hole.jpg

Now, in using Jon's puller idea, build a tube affair that will allow Jon's puller to "push" against the flywheel cover, while simultaneously pulling against the PDS.........., (rather than "hammering" on it with the slide hammer apparatus).
All of this could be done using a substantially sized threaded rod and correct pulling nut... (threads lubricated of course).
IOW, turn Jon's slide hammer tool, into a threaded shaft "Puller" or "Jacking" type tool.

With a steady pull, you could shock the drive coupler splined hub with a punch, and hopefully free up the supposed rust that is preventing the PDS removal.

I believe that this approach will offer you some versatility.
  • Steady, even, controlled pull.
  • Shocking applied to the drive coupler inner splined hub only.
  • Movement could be seen or noticed as it progresses.
Just tossing this out there for more "Food for Thought".
 
Hi Ollison,
I don't have a Paypal account or an account with a credit card company. I will see if I can use a friends and will be in touch soon.


Regards,
Jon
 
Still planning on Borrowing your tool. Had to many things going. I florida right now and will be here until Wednsday. At that time I plan on an aggressive attempt to pull it. Needed a vacation of rest before I get very mad at the beast.
 
Winters over and now back to pulling shaft. Jon what is your telephone number. I will sent that deposit for your fantastic shaft puller. Call me if you want 573-746-0506. Thank you
 
Dwin, I was wondering whether or not you were able to remove your PDS. I'm still here and still curious as to see what's giving you so much grief on this.
 
Winters over and boating fever is here. I lost the contact of the person who had puller. He wanted $100.00 deposit. Fall came and I put it to rest. Either I'm pulling it or i'm hiring it done. The boat is going to the lake asap. Thanks. Do you have Jons number?
 
Dwin, I'm not finding Jon's email address, although I know that we exchanged emails regarding this. Remember that he sent the photo to me, and I posted it on the forum.

Click on Jon's user name and send him a PM (private message).
If Jon has invoked the PM notification, he'll get an email from ME.com telling him that he has a message. But if he hasn't invoked the notification, who knows.

I'll keep looking.

Rick
 
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