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For greasemonkey: Jabsco vs. Sherwood

A

actthree

Member
Your advice on Akjohn's thread about a Jabsco replacement for the old Sherwood raw water pump got my attention. I'd love to dump the old Sherwood pumps (with the pressed-on pulley) for a more modern pump. Do you have a Jabsco part number, by any chance? If so, I can probably chase down a pulley, which I assume bolts onto the face of the pump shaft.

I've wanted to get rid of these Sherwood pumps for so long.

Thanks,

Bill
 
Well its keyed and its setscrewed,solid pulley,I want to say G50 but I cant tell for sure right now my new wholesale book doesnt have it but they have the sherwoods.Ill see what I can find.
 
Bill, I just read John's thread again... posts 35 & 36.

I'm not sure what lead GM to think that belt driven sea water pumps were Jabsco.
Looks to me like they would be Sherwood, or as you suggested, possibly Sherwood G7B's.

Some of the older ones did use a cast iron front bearing box section.




I believe that there is some misinformation in John's thread. Sherwood does offer a pump with a bolt on pulley. I've used them over the years.

Also, Sherwood impellers are single keyed to the shaft.
The Jabsco will use the splined shaft and splined inner hub.

With exception to the P-105 style, Sherwood pumps require that the pump body be separated for impeller replacement.
Jabsco has a removable cover.

images




Bill, if you were to use the SHE G7B, the pulley leaves three access openings to the three pump body screws.
This would certainly make impeller changes much easier.
images



I still wish that you Chrysler guys could use the crankshaft pumps.... either Sherwood, Jabsco or Johnson.

images
images

The Johnson pumps run about $150 when you catch them on sale.

The shaft presses into the base unit, and could be removed easily.
If you were to take a Chrysler harmonic balancer, a Chrysler pulley, and one of these pumps to a good machinist, he could very likely build you two bases that would accommodate the Chrysler mounting.
It would be a one-time-deal.

The cost may even be close to what two new Sherwood belt driven pumps would run you.
Now you have good quick access to the impeller, no side load from drive belt tension, etc.

Food for thought, perhaps.

.
 
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Rick,looks to me you dont **** about what pumps are what,trying to convince people this"crankshaft pump' is so great,by the time they get the machine shop to fabricate it at least $100,new molded hoses $80,hoses that stick out from the front of the engine ....that 400 pump....change this change that....I know cause I rebuilt both pumps you know because...uh???....thats it crankshaft pumps are the best way....Also,TAT is so important ...because it'll do what rick?....show us a pic of what it does

Heres a great idea... lets buy a pump that mounts to cast iron bracket with a thread housing that you can slap two more bolts if you feel the need....in which that bracket is mounted to the engine with more than 2 bolts... disconnect the molded hoses...and replace the pump

Lets get some first hand knowledge for once


I got a question for you since I know your just beggin....seriously here


Will omc cobra SX transom mounts will bolt right up to a volvo penta upper and lower drive or even a duo-prop ?
 
greasemonkey said:
Rick,looks to me you dont **** about what pumps are what,trying to convince people this"crankshaft pump' is so great,by the time they get the machine shop to fabricate it at least $100,new molded hoses $80,hoses that stick out from the front of the engine ....that 400 pump....change this change that....I know cause I rebuilt both pumps you know because...uh???....thats it crankshaft pumps are the best way.... Also,TAT is so important ...because it'll do what rick?....show us a pic of what it does

Heres a great idea... lets buy a pump that mounts to cast iron bracket with a thread housing that you can slap two more bolts if you feel the need....in which that bracket is mounted to the engine with more than 2 bolts... disconnect the molded hoses...and replace the pump

Lets get some first hand knowledge for once


I got a question for you since I know your just beggin....seriously here


Will omc cobra SX transom mounts will bolt right up to a volvo penta upper and lower drive or even a duo-prop ?
Click to expand...

Whoah there young man! Hold your horses back!

No one is trying to convince anyone of which pump to use and/or which pump to avoid, or to say that the crankshaft pump is BEST.
These were my suggestions only.... and why would this bother you anyway???

For you to come back and suggest that a potential crankshaft pump modification is too costly, is an assumption at best.
This would be for Bill to decide, not your or I!

Then for you to switch gears here to the number of pump mounting bolts, then to an Ignition TAT topic, and then to an OMC/Volvo Penta topic, is rather odd to me!


Also,TAT is so important ...because it'll do what rick?....show us a pic of what it does
Click to expand...
If you do not understand Ignition Timing, no amount of pictures will help you.
This may also explain why you had so much trouble with the #1 cylinder topic.
It may be best if you refrained from posting in any of the Ignition Timing related threads.... at least until you gain an understanding of how this relates to our gasoline Marine Cruiser engines.
I say this simply because you felt the need to ask me why this is important, and that you asked me to post pictures.

All of your above gibberish would appear to be nothing more of than the same rhetoric from you, just as you used in the ill fated Chrysler #1 cylinder location thread where you could not answer any of my questions, nor post any supporting data nor photos, during that thread!
Yet you continued arguing. Or did you forget that thread?
Now you are doing the same here in Bill's thread.

Look, you may mean well...... and that's all great and dandy!
Neither of us is of any more/less valuable than the other with regard to ME.com.
I'll suggest that you stick to the task here, drop your ego, work on being more articulate and perhaps on your punctuation and grammar, and help rather than stir the pot.

Nothing is gained here by causing trouble.


Edit:
Bill, I'm sorry that this disrupted your thread.
If you don't want to hear any further re; pump options, I'm good with that!
Good luck with whatever you choose to do. :D
 
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I believe Mr. Bill was referring to me...somehow I gathered this knowledge
Not Rick the know it all up in Oregon who has to chime in on everybodies thread about the same issue with the timing nonsense
Im a mechanic....I got grease under my nails and runs thru my viens like hypoid 90...your lucky I put periods AFTER MY SENTENCES...OOPS I HIT THE CAPS LOCK KEY!!....when I make one .

Seemed like alot of people are confused about the #1 so I made it a point on my own to get everybody educated because it is confusing...you dont think I can google all those same diagrams?? Its not the most looked at thread because grease cant bar the crank over to find the clearly stamped flywheel marks....not a paint bloch...they wrote it up poorly in the book and everybody knows but you...you dont have the mopars but wish you did thats why you troll around in the chrysler forum...just find an adapter for your DP's...You know those 350s are a pain in the ass to change spark plugs

2 hrs to do a comp test and put new plugs in only to find out the risers are clogged because the passage get too rusty too quick

I need a new bravo 3 DP, how much is it gonna be??

Ego,we we cant get 3.5kbs out before you get off topic about a modification nobody has even thought about...BUT YOU
 
actthree said:
Your advice on Akjohn's thread about a Jabsco replacement for the old Sherwood raw water pump got my attention. I'd love to dump the old Sherwood pumps (with the pressed-on pulley) for a more modern pump. Do you have a Jabsco part number, by any chance? If so, I can probably chase down a pulley, which I assume bolts onto the face of the pump shaft.

I've wanted to get rid of these Sherwood pumps for so long.

Thanks,

Bill
Click to expand...

The pumps on my motors may well be both sherwood....internally they look identical, the one with the solid pulley had a cast iron housing and was junk, the second pump with the pressed on pulley was marked a G7B, I dont have years working on boats but plenty of time fixing broken mechanical contrivances and the from my eyes the pressed on pulley is a better pump. A power steering puller makes quick work of removing the pulley, and a press puts it right back on....... fooling around with rusty set screws is not a good system........IMO.
 
Akjohn said:
The pumps on my motors may well be both sherwood....internally they look identical, the one with the solid pulley had a cast iron housing and was junk, the second pump with the pressed on pulley was marked a G7B, I dont have years working on boats but plenty of time fixing broken mechanical contrivances and the from my eyes the pressed on pulley is a better pump. A power steering puller makes quick work of removing the pulley, and a press puts it right back on....... fooling around with rusty set screws is not a good system........IMO.
Click to expand...
John, I fully agree with that! I've seen these keyed/set screw style pulleys come loose.
Not a good scenario for a pump who's function is so critical to a Marine Engine's cooling!

The press/friction fit, and/or the bolt on pulley would appear to be a better route to go.

BTW, and just an FYI:
Bill did open this thread here by saying; "I'd like to dump the Sherwood pumps"...... "I've wanted to get rid of these Sherwood pumps for so long".

Perhaps this helps explain why I wished that the Chrysler guys could use the crankshasft pump, and why I made the suggestion of modifying a Johnson, Jabsco or Sherwood crankshaft pump to fit the Chrysler engine.
Key word.... "suggestion"!

.
 
BTW, and just an FYI:
Bill did open this thread here by saying; "I'd like to dump the Sherwood pumps"...... "I've wanted to get rid of these Sherwood pumps for so long".
Click to expand...

I didn't see it that way Rick. :rolleyes:

For greasemonkey: Jabsco vs. Sherwood
Click to expand...

Bill was asking Greasemoney.

Where is it that Bill asked for your know it all personality on this ?. :rolleyes:
 
RicardoMarine said:
John, I fully agree with that! I've seen these keyed/set screw style pulleys come loose.
Not a good scenario for a pump who's function is so critical to a Marine Engine's cooling!

The press/friction fit, and/or the bolt on pulley would appear to be a better route to go.

BTW, and just an FYI:
Bill did open this thread here by saying; "I'd like to dump the Sherwood pumps"...... "I've wanted to get rid of these Sherwood pumps for so long".

Perhaps this helps explain why I wished that the Chrysler guys could use the crankshasft pump, and why I made the suggestion of modifying a Johnson, Jabsco or Sherwood crankshaft pump to fit the Chrysler engine.
Key word.... "suggestion"!

.
Click to expand...

I can understand why a crank driven pump would be more reliable, but I have very little experience with either, I only jumped in since my pumps were mentioned and my experience with the two diffrent pulley attaching arrangements.
Having re-read what you wrote, a crank mounted pump seems like a good idea. What is the drawback to a belt driven pump? Is it the cost or belt reliability? I have a ways to go on my project, the boat is still south but the snow is melting and I am working in getting it here. I have heard that the 27 Uni's had very little room in front of the motor, almost no room to change the belt, so no room for a pump either. Can you attach a pic of a GM with a crank mounted pump, I would be interested in seeing how they are setup..........thanks......John
 
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Sea Clam said:
1.... I didn't see it that way Rick. :rolleyes:

2... Bill was asking Greasemoney.

3.... Where is it that Bill asked for your know it all personality on this ?. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
1... Understood!
We are all free to discuss and agree or disagree with one another. That's how these forums work.

2.... In my years of membership here, I have yet to see a thread title: "Mr. J. Doe ONLY, please answer my pump question!"
If/when we feel the need for private or exclusive communication, we have the PM feature at our disposal. So we send a Private Message.

3... Again, if Bill intended for his thread to be exclusive to Greasemonkey, I think that he'd have used the PM feature by sending greasemonkey a private message.

Bill, perhaps you can chime in on this!
If my posting to your thread has been inappropriate, please let me know.


Sea Clam, this is post #1 for you on ME.com, and I see that this thread has become the focus of your first post.
I'm rather skeptical and I'd be surprised if you don't have an agenda here.




Akjohn said:
I can understand why a crank driven pump would be more reliable, but I have very little experience with either, I only jumped in since my pumps were mentioned and my experience with the two diffrent pulley attaching arrangements.
Having re-read what you wrote, a crank mounted pump seems like a good idea. What is the drawback to a belt driven pump? Is it the cost or belt reliability? I have a ways to go on my project, the boat is still south but the snow is melting and I am working in getting it here. I have heard that the 27 Uni's had very little room in front of the motor, almost no room to change the belt, so no room for a pump either. Can you attach a pic of a GM with a crank mounted pump, I would be interested in seeing how they are setup..........thanks......John
Click to expand...
John, yes, the crankshaft style pump is more reliable as a general rule.
As mentioned, there is no side load from belt tension, easy impeller ascess, and so on.
However, you must have space in front the engine for these to become pratical.

As for a picture of one..... I do show the Sherwood and Johnson pumps in post #4 in this thread.

images
images

The bronze Sherwood base, and the black cast iron Johnson base is the mounting flange that would need to be modified for a Chrysler engine.

The Johnon pumps use a very common and easily found impeller.
When a company is offering a sale on these, you can sometimes pick them up for $150 or so..... complete with impeller.
That's $300 for a pair compared to $560 for a pair of the Sherwood G7B pumps.

If the crankshaft pump could be modified and used, this leaves approx $260 towards this one-time-ordeal.

Again, for Greasemonkey and now Sea Clam, these are suggestions ONLY.
Repeat..... suggestions ONLY!
Your boat.... do as you wish!

BTW, John, over the years I have directed several people away from the belt driven sea water pumps, into the crankshaft pumps.
I have yet to hear anyone but thank me for the suggestion afterwards.

Not one complaint saying that they wished they had stayed with the belt driven pumps.

.
 
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RicardoMarine said:
John, yes, the crankshaft style pump is more reliable as a general rule.
As mentioned, there is no side load from belt tension, easy impeller ascess, and so on.
However, you must have space in front the engine for these to become pratical.

As for a picture of one..... I do show the Sherwood and Johnson pumps in post #4 in this thread.

.
Click to expand...

Ric,
I was hoping to see a bracket, but the picture in my mind is the pump flange bolts to the harmonic balancer and the hoses prevent the pump from roatating?
Is this correct or is there a bracket of sorts?.......John
 
John, there is a torque arm for these that connects a post on the pump body to a mounting bolt in the engine block.
The post on the pump body that you can see receives a rubber cushion.
Over the rubber cushion is a round steel receptical that is part of the torque arm.

I'll tell you that the torque arm is not absolutely necessary. The hoses are fully capable of pump troque, and with no distortion to them.
I've been running both of mine for years without the torque arms in place.
These pumps would need to undergo a complete pump lock-up for any damage to occur......... and the likihood of that is very minimal, IMO.

However, if you like the idea of the torque arm, a fabric embedded rubber member, or strap, could be in lieu of an actual steel arm.

Your call on that.
 
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actthree said:
Your advice on Akjohn's thread about a Jabsco replacement for the old Sherwood raw water pump got my attention. I'd love to dump the old Sherwood pumps (with the pressed-on pulley) for a more modern pump. Do you have a Jabsco part number, by any chance? If so, I can probably chase down a pulley, which I assume bolts onto the face of the pump shaft.

I've wanted to get rid of these Sherwood pumps for so long.

Thanks,

Bill
Click to expand...

Bill after all this back and forth nonsense I was just wondering what the problems are with the sherwoods..............? I had planned to buy another when the time comes.....John
 
John, here's the torque arm that I was referring to..... last image, bottom right, and is specific the the GM engines.
It would be easy enough to fabricate one.
8254.jpg
 
Gee, I was away working for a few says and look what happens!

Here's why I asked the question of Greasemonkey. The Sherwood G78 pumps that I have now on my Chrysler 360s make it difficult to do a simple impeller change. The pump has to come off and the pulley removed before you can get it apart. I can get the pulley off but I have to borrow a press to get it back on. To make matters worse, getting the hoses off pump on the starboard engine is really difficult because of clearance issues. Boating is supposed to be fun and fooling with that pump isn't. That's why I asked about an alternative.

About crank-mounted pumps. I put them on the GM 350s on my last boat. Yes, I had room in front of the engines and they worked perfectly and I got to remove one belt from each engine. Any time I can get rid of a belt, that's a good thing in my mind. I ran those pumps for four years and they were pumping perfectly the day I sold the boat.

I didn't PM Greasemonkey because I thought the info might be useful to others on here who have 318/360s. I appreciate his reply as I do the ones from Rick who I believe is just doing his best to add to the forum.

As for Akjohn (who I just know is reading this thread) we're all going to be happy when you harness up the huskies and drag that Uni home. We're all looking forward to the video of you dropping those engines in and starting them up.

Bill
 
actthree said:
1..... About crank-mounted pumps. I put them on the GM 350s on my last boat. Yes, I had room in front of the engines and they worked perfectly and I got to remove one belt from each engine. Any time I can get rid of a belt, that's a good thing in my mind. I ran those pumps for four years and they were pumping perfectly the day I sold the boat.

2.... I didn't PM Greasemonkey because I thought the info might be useful to others on here who have 318/360s. I appreciate his reply as I do the ones from Rick who I believe is just doing his best to add to the forum.
Click to expand...

1..... Bill, I certainly agree about eliminating one belt. That in itself is worth quite a bit.
And those crankshaft pumps (minus impeller replacements) will go for another 10-12 years before needing any attention.


2.... I think that all of us would agree with that, Bill.
I learn from reading threads that may have zero to do with the engines that I own and work on......., and from threads that I don't even participate in.
There is always something new to learn.

.
 
what the puller does is bend that thin metal when its been on a long time and slight metal difference....I guess the perfect setup would be to tap the shaft for a bolt and big washer just in case

Akjohn got lucky,but did he bend the pulley so it wears and wobbles at super high revs??
 
greasemonkey said:
what the puller does is bend that thin metal when its been on a long time and slight metal difference....I guess the perfect setup would be to tap the shaft for a bolt and big washer just in case

Akjohn got lucky,but did he bend the pulley so it wears and wobbles at super high revs??
Click to expand...

GM................NO............. I did not bend the pulley, why would one do that using the right tool....?
 
Sea Clam, this is post #1 for you on ME.com, and I see that this thread has become the focus of your first post.
I'm rather skeptical and I'd be surprised if you don't have an agenda here.
Click to expand...

None intended on my part. I've been a longggg time lurker and decided to join. :)

You just strike me as being a guy that is never wrong on anything.
 
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