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Engine needs rebuilt

M

Micksan

New member
I have a pair of crusader 220s in my 1986 houseboat. The starboard engine needs rebuilding.
I understand that it is a marine version of the 350 truck engine. After some calls I found a relieable shop that can do a complete rebuild. This would include most of the internal parts.
As for the special items I can get those on line and install them as I drop the engine back in place.
How is my ideas going so far. I know how to pull a wrench. I'm a retired Navy SCPO Torpedoman , and do all of my own motorcycle work. I want to do the shop route due to the machine work that would be required.
So how does my idea sound so far???
Input is sought and appricated
 
Well; I can say that the only thing you REALLY need a machine shop for is to rebore the holes, turn the crank, and mill the heads. I'm pretty handy, but I also have them rebuild the heads, hone the holes, remove the block plugs, tank the block, and refit the rods to the pistons, if new. The rest should be a fairly straightforward event for you, once you get the specs, such as ring end gaps, bearing clearances, torques, etc for that particular engine. You do need a few special tools, such as a good pair of calipers, torque wrench, ring expander, ring compressor, some plastigage, and some tubes of some "stuff". Others will report things I have missed. Like an engine stand, a strong back....
 
That is just the reasons why I want to farm the work out to a relieable shop. Question is >>>Can it be treated like a truck 350. ???
They use a total rebuild kit , and do all of the things you mentioned .
 
Marine gasket set; which typically means the head gaskets are stainless steel. Also, brass freeze plugs on the block. I'm not aware of any other gasket differences that touch the block. Note that you might have a "reverse" spin on the engine on that STB side.
 
I agree with Chris, For the money you will spend you can buy a long block with a warrenty as cheap if not cheaper.
 
Micksan, would you consider this houseboat to be a mostly hull speed boat? If so, there's probably no need for anything other than the standard run-of-the-mill build.
If this Stbd engine is a RH Reverse Rotation engine, there will be a few changes to components and build techniques. In addition to the special camshaft for reverse cylinder firing order, would be piston pin off-set orientation and crankshaft seals re; direction. If you like the idea of a harmonic balancer being marked off, this would be marked off in the opposite direction.
Otherwise, the assembly is very similar to that of a Std LH Rotation engine.


Sea Clam, you are very transparent to say the least.
Sea Clam said:
Isn't this where Rick comes in and starts screaming about the quench bullsh*t. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
No, this is where Rick would typically mention that if this build was for a planing hull, Rick may then go on to explain why we DO NOT want the GM full dished pistons.
However, since you are so well versed in Marine Technology, and perhaps Marine engines...., I'll make this a challenge for you: Why don't you explain why the GM full dished piston works well for the SBC Marine ......, and then perhaps explain why the Quench build is bullsh*t?
IOW, show us some supporting data that confirms the use of the GM SBC full dished piston as being a great idea for Marine use.
Conversely, show us some supporting data that confirms the use of the SBC quench style build rendering no better results re; low end torque, a better LPCP, detonation control, etc., etc.
I'm all ears, and would love to read what you post!
Fair nuff?

I'll check back to read your comments. :)
 
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I too am with Chris: Get a quality rebuilt long block. Far cheaper, plus it will have all the right parts. You'll be better off in the end.

Marine engines are NOT car/ truck engines. Some machine shops don't know the difference, so why take a chance?

Jeff

PS: Want to test your chosen machine shop's marine engine knowledge? Ask them which way the pistons go in a reverse rotator marine engine? If they give you the right answer--backwards ("F" to the rear)--congratulate them, but if you get that 'deer in the headlights' look....
 
Excellent P.S. post, Jeff... I'll second that one! :D

You'll also get the 'deer in the headlights' look when you mention "qench" or "squish" to some of these machine shops.
deer-in-headlights-300x283.jpg

IMO, if they do not know about this, we should choose another shop if we care at all about our cruiser engine build.

While on topic.... MichiganMotors, who has a stellar reputation btw, is willing to do a SBC quench build on a custom order basis these days. They understand the benefits!

.
 
Down in FL, there are some horror stories with long block makers. Yes, the warranties do cover the part, but never the R&R and debug time to make it right. If you don't really know the shop, whether it is a rebuilder or a machine shop, the risk goes up. In salt land, you may get a salt water cooled block that will have loose, scaling rust in it. I took detailed financial records in my dealings with my local machine shop. Overall, you may not spend any more $ building up your own engine, but you will spend more time. Whether that is "satisfaction" or it is a "chore" is up to the participant.

On the flip side; if you are unsure of you talents and time availability, that points strongly to farming out more of the work. A long block rebuilder should offer some economies of scale and should be running a time tested process. I'm just not sold on the reliability and out of pocket costs, however.
 
Personally, I like to put my stuff together to the extent possible. That way I know what is in there and how it is put together. A quality shop is necessary and find one will pay benefits in the long run.

I'm sure there are many decent rebuilders (there longevity is directly coupled to their products' quality); in my case it is a personal preference.

In the end, it is your time and money. So, you have to make the decision based on your assets. Sounds like you are capable. Now, just do it.
 
diver_dave said:
Down in FL, there are some horror stories with long block makers. Yes, the warranties do cover the part, but never the R&R and debug time to make it right. If you don't really know the shop, whether it is a rebuilder or a machine shop, the risk goes up. In salt land, you may get a salt water cooled block that will have loose, scaling rust in it. I took detailed financial records in my dealings with my local machine shop. Overall, you may not spend any more $ building up your own engine, but you will spend more time. Whether that is "satisfaction" or it is a "chore" is up to the participant.

On the flip side; if you are unsure of you talents and time availability, that points strongly to farming out more of the work. A long block rebuilder should offer some economies of scale and should be running a time tested process. I'm just not sold on the reliability and out of pocket costs, however.
Click to expand...

The builder, I am assuming you are talking about, has had a failure rate of 80%.
Find a good builder if you want to take that road. If he is good he will give you at least a two year warranty.
 
What are your plans for this boat? Are you going to keep it long term? Then a full “turn- key” repower may be the way to go. Or do you just want to repair it so you can use it for awhile and maybe sell it. With 1986 engines you are at a crossroad. Most of your 1986 engines parts that hang on the block are going to need to be rebuilt or replaced. Oil coolers, heat exchangers,pumps, manifolds, carb, and ignition. These are all big $$ items. Don’t forget the “nickel and dime” items like new hoses, belts, motor mounts and other things that work now but, you will change because you have the engine out. Are you going to reuse that 5 year old starter that you had to hang upside down to change or replace it now with the engine sitting on the bench? It all ads up $$

You may want to check around and see if there is a running engine pulled from a bad hull sitting in a yard you could drop in.

Good Luck,
Lou
 
Mick, would you be able to answer my question in post #8 for me re; RH Reverse Rotation, and how you use the boat re; hull speed, or does this thing plane out?
This can make a difference as to which way you go.


And again... read Jeff's post #9.
There's good reason to know as much as you can about the shop that would be doing this work for you.




.
 
Why don't you explain why the GM full dished piston works well for the SBC Marine ......, and then perhaps explain why the Quench build is bullsh*t?
IOW, show us some supporting data that confirms the use of the GM SBC full dished piston as being a great idea for Marine
Click to expand...

Its so easy to do a search about 2850Bounty aka RicardoMarine about quench pistons
 
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Sea Clam said:
Its so easy to do a search about 2850Bounty aka RicardoMarine about quench pistons
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree. It has become very easy since I promote the idea when I can.
Did you have a particular point by mentioning this?

It's also very easy to do a search on Dennis Moore (SBC Marine Performance), Jeff Smith (renowned SBC enthusiast...Chevy High Performance), John Erb (Chief Engineer, KB Pistons), Charles Borrini (JCM Machine), Larry Carley (PBM), all regarding combustion chambers and the quench effect. Or perhaps Michael Delaney on ignition timing, and how the quench affects this.

Since you suggest that the quench is BullSh*t, would you care to share your experiences with any of these gentlemen?
Perhaps you could explain why each of them is mistaken.

My challenge for you, was to show us some data that throats the idea of the SBC and the quench effect.
Are you able to do that..... or are you not able to do that?
If not, then perhaps this subject is above your pay grade, and you should refrain from entering into these conversations, unless you have something positive to add!

I'd even consider any Negative information (regarding the quench) to be a positive forum contribution.
Who would want to build with a Q/E if there's no benefit to it?

Fair Nuff?


As for you guys in thread, I apologize for the interruption.
I think that a few us know Sea Calm's actual identity.

.
 
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If you are going to build two new engines then Listen to Rick, Quench Pistons and the correct heads are the way to go. Ask any experienced engine builder and they will agree. If you are only building one engine in a twin engine boat, you will want to replace the one engine with an exact replica so you have a matched set.
 
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