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Engine Instrumentation Replacement

knuckle47

knuckle47

Advanced Contributor
"Certainly can't expect mo

"Certainly can't expect more service out of my original dual helm instruments. My engines appear to be running very well and I do rely on the information from the gauges to keep me updated to any changes developing. I focus on this information even when I am not at the helm.

As I run up and down between stations, there is so much discrepancy between the 4 oil pressure, 4 tachs, 4 temp, etc... I can't stand it any more. This winter will see a major revamp of this condition by replacing the whole thing.

My dilema: wiring. I am not talking about the monumental task of pulling spools of wire thru ridiculously tight places, but the actual here to there connections that can help me to accomplish this job.

I have read in the 12V doctor book...Easy my butt. I've wired a completely new 50amp shore power system and panel complete with 2500w inverter and all new wiring thru and thru and have my plans to finish the 12v system this fall. I lack the point to point information for the gauges. Is there wiring diagram anywhere out there that may illustrate a more generic dashboard or am I just overly intimidated by something easily done?

My shipshape guy had an episode where they redid the 57' 1980 Monterey helm instruments and he said they took 4-5 weeks to do it...These guys can afford expert help. I just have me and of course, you guys!"
 
"Some random thoughts, in no p

"Some random thoughts, in no particular order.
I've redone a couple of boats' panels, including new instruments, power panel, wires, etc.
I tend to not like push on terminations, although I recently broke that rule when I bought some new VDO voltmeters that use the 1/4" fastons. The problems with push-on terms is the difficulty of daisy chaining wires, long term mechanical reliability and the possibility of accidental disconnection when messing with the panel. I guess i'm an old fashioned stud and nut kind of guy. Use tinned #16 awg wire with heat shrink, and ring terms, not fork terms. Optimally, color code; Red for unswitched B+, violet for SW B+, etc; there are codes published on-line somewhere. Consider digital tachs for your twin eng boat, you can then advoid using a syncronizer. I went with digital flowscans, combining fuel flow/totalizer as well. I like VDO and Stewart Warner. A good move is to allow enough wire slack to allow removal of the gauge without electrical disconnect beforehand, something I wished I'd done. Avoid connectors. I run the voltmeters to the switched side of the main disconnects, rather than the ignition line. That avoids some losses in the wiring, affecting readings. Use audible alarms for both oil and temp. You may need a second set at the bridge/tower, like I did. They have saved me on more than one occasion. Gages are nice, but there is no avoiding an electronic siren or loud buzzer going off."
 
"Thanks for the ideas Dave...I

"Thanks for the ideas Dave...I absolutely agree with stud and nut configuration. My bigger concerns are for the actual which wire is going where part. I would like to have a diagram available for referencing as I know that just with 12 110vac circuits those wires became quite confusing. With dual helm setups on 12vdc, I can only begin to imaging the nightmare developing and likely around February with a month to go...I would probably be 2 months behind !

I like the sync needle and I have the 4212 Garmin for fuel management so I am trying not to add to the cost despite the accuracy of those floscans. I like the voltmeter plan you present and leaving the wiring long enough, I have already done a 26' Bayliner and I did leave about 15" extra wire just to pull a gauge out and let it rest on the deck. I already have all my terminal rings with heat shrink, about 50' of assorted heat shrink tubing, 1800 feet of color wire spools of all sorts #14. I have that code list which is how I wound up with all this wire. I heard ShipShape say that daisy chaining wire was the old way and not as good to do. I was planing to run individual looms to each area. As for buzzers and whistles, I have them new and ready to go for both stations as well as a small zone I am planing for in our rear cockpit fishing area. I am somewhat hesitant to suggest some BRAND of gauges but I do know the two you have mentioned are better than the ones this boat came with and still does."
 
"Hi, My name is Chris and I&#3

"Hi, My name is Chris and I'm new to the forum, I am located near Toronto in Canada and my boat is in a Marina with access to Lake Simcoe. Not being a marine mechanic or electrician, I'm sure there are others out there much more qualified than myself to give you direction, I have, though, in my job as a technician done lot's of wiring repairs and modifications.
I recently replaced most of the gauges on my 1994 Silverton Express 34 and I can tell you what I found.
I installed Teleflex gauges and were slightly larger than the ones I took out (Farah I think) However with a little gentle persuasion, they went in. Thankfully they were mostly stud and nut, I did have to rewire the Tach's as they had spade connectors, for some reason, the ones I took off were different from the rest of the gauges. Also Silverton left enough wire to lay the panel on it's face so I could replace them, it made life a lot easier than the alternative.

If you plan on replacing the wires, there is a list of general colour coding in the West Marine catalogue in the Electrical section. It's not fully comprehensive, but it does cover the main circuits you will come across.

Good luck."
 
"Dave, you are an inspiration.

"Dave, you are an inspiration. As the result of your posting I am thinking of following you and replace both my stations this winter. Sounds like a good project. If you don't mind we can collaborate here. Since I have a Gibson, my first thought was to contact Gibson and see what system they are using on their new boats and duplicate. There may be better alternatives.

Chuck Hanson"
 
"Chuck, I am planning to see w

"Chuck, I am planning to see what Silverton has on their schematics as well....AL"
 
"Al and other brave souls:

"Al and other brave souls:

One thing I can't emphasis enough - use tinned, stranded wire!!!! Doesn't have to be the "brand name" stuff you see in the marine stores at very high prices, but it really should be stranded and tinned. If you can't afford the correct material I can only suggest not doing the job. (manny horror stories here!)

If your going to start, I'd suggest doing the whole job. I'm suggesting redo all the wiring from the engine up to the helm. I never was a fan of the "harness connector" that was supplied with the engines. Make a detailed diagram (schematic) and put all the info needed to do the job on it - label each connection with color/number/function, etc. Try to lay out the pieces just like they are physically and it will help immensely.

the slack at the ends Dave refers to is what we call a 'service loop'. besides letting you remove items, it will also help to minimize any water intrusion that may occur.

In addition to the ring terminals and shrink wrap, let me add "Good" crimping tool and liquid neoprene. The liquid neoprene will help you keep the connections from turning green. it conforms to all shapes and has proven a worth its costs many times over. If you really want to go 'lexus-like', get the heat shrink with the adhesive in it, too.

Another item I have found beneficial is a terminal block. I prefer the 'ancient bakelite' versions. they provide many benefits, the big one I like is flexibility. I've added and removed a few gadgets over the years and the blocks provide access to any signal necessary without messing up what is there. Also good for troubleshooting - I can remove the sender lead and add my calibrated resistors to test the gauge in about 2 minutes for the whole job.

Tie wraps - can never have enough but you can use too many. I've found the ones with the ring on the end are great for positive retention without needing a separate clamp.

the last item, kind of overkill, but makes for an idiot-tolerant system (if you invest the time to complete the drawing) is to add individual wire numbers to each lead. (If some of this sounds airplane related, it is, - both applications share similar requirements.)

BTW - there is nothing wrong with the 1/4" spade connectors, if you get the correct ones. The plain-jane ones will drive you nuts, the correct ones work well. Daisy cahining is usually necessary for these and I always soldered the two wires together and then crimped the terminal on (sometimes soldered the connector too. the correct ones have a 'dimple' that will mate with the hole in the middle of the male connector and make them very vibration tolerant.

If you desire more detail, suggest focusing on one topic at a time."
 
"Mark,

I could not agree mo

"Mark,

I could not agree more and I actually have 85% of this covered. I have MARINE GRADE tinned and stranded wire in 10 different colors on 100' spools. I have those number tapes to code each wire according to the drawing I will use BUT... I am looking for something to secure the number tapes to the cable AND I still need a schematic. IS THERE such a thing as CLEAR heat shrink?

I can see these numbers peeling away within a month or so without something to keep them in place and it will take me more than that to get this job done. I am actually building a new dash console as well in order to accomodate my chartplotter and radio as an integral built in part of the original bridge. So far it fits well but I now need to resin it up and get it to look like a fiberglass original. It is about the same height as the venturi windshield but 52" wide instead of the original 36".

While the boat may be worth X dollars I know that I will have increased the value with so many new parts but it is still only worth that X amount. It'S JUST THAT it is just running so darn good !!"
 
"Yes, there is clear heat shri

"Yes, there is clear heat shrink in the size you need. I'd recommend that you use the smallest size possible for best clarity, but that means marking before terminations.
I did a custom twin inboard schematic for my boat, i can send via email if req. However, it doesn't cover the eng. instrum."
 
"The wire markers I have don&#

"The wire markers I have don't have anything over them and they've been there for at least 11 years now. To be honest, they aren't sprinkled thru the dash - they are on the spark plug leads to eliminate the LH or RH engine question. I believe they were made by Alpha - I can check sometime over the weekend if you want. If you have light colored shrink tube, I'd say use a fine point sharpie (permanent marker) and go from there.

I think you can find the basic schematic in the Owners book for your engines. I can scan and send you the schematic I have but it was done before my "education" was significant.

One other thought - are you looking for a schematic or are you looking for a combined schematic with as "As Built" flavor (showing physical relation between parts, etc)?"
 
"Actually, I met an marine ele

"Actually, I met an marine electrical designer who lives in Florida and 2 years ago, had designed both AC and DC wiring for the boat. I have the pdf files for them and have completed the AC portion. It was significant, The DC side is getting done this winter but is probably double the work of the AC side. It uses starting relays, hi amp fuses and stuff I have been collecting and saving for the last 2 years which is why I plan to get started this winter. The engine instrumentation is where I have nothing to go by.

Mark, I will be down to the the marina by Sunday and will check my Crusader engine manual.

Dave, Thanks for the offer. I have this plan which includes everything BUT the engines. I will try to find a place to get that clear shrink. I have never seen it....YET"
 
"Al:

If you need one to go

"Al:

If you need one to go by, I can send you a merc diagram - color coding is standard. If you can't find your book, mine's on the boat and I can swing by and grab it - just let me know.

Did your designer incorporate a Galvanic Isolator in the AC side of the electric system?"
 
"Hi Mark,

Yes...The galvani

"Hi Mark,

Yes...The galvanic isolater is already installed on the AC side. I wrote to Silverton to seek out a standard 2 engine analaog instrument helm setup but they basically told me their archives had to plans available to them for this year vessel...which I knew already but was hoping they could send along something from 1992 or so that used this stuff. I am not too concerned yet as I am sure I can come up with something. As I believe, I could probably use ANY wiring diagram that utilized these gauges and key setup. However, I am still confident I can find it."
 
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