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Engine alignment question

bspeth said:
I would at least attempt to gimbal that pup before pulling an engine,did you do it before initially checking alignment?
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i pulled the drive, swapped out the forward mounts then attempted to align it. the drive pulled out pretty easily. i dont think alignment was off or that off before i got in there and do what i do best... destroy things
 
Try this: Throw a couple 2x4s on end across the gunnels and put a strap in the lifting eye and around a scissor jack sitting on the 2x4s. Put your alignment bar into the center of the bearing and put a good grunt on it to pivot it to align it with the coupler.The gimbal bearing moves like an eyeball and if it is not square,any adjustment of the engine will be invalid.Once you can bury the bar then lower the front lower nuts all the way down and remove the upper nuts. Adjust the scissor jack to raise the engine until the bar goes in smoothly and run the bottom nuts up .your issue sounds like one I had the first time I did an alignment and that is what I did. I am not as experienced as some on here but I think its worth a try
 
After taking a closer look at the inner transom assembly (link is for 1987 but is good for visual)

http://www.marineengine.com/parts/m...-1987/0b525982-thru-0b773304/flywheel-housing


The rubber bushing/mount referred to looks to only have lateral (side to side/rotational) movement. No vertical movement as the center of the bushing has a steel sleeve. Does this steel sleeve go all the way thru the bushing or is it two pieces and when the bolts are tightened it compresses it?

I have never gone that far into a inner transom assembly and removed or had to replace these "bushings".

If the sleeve is one piece it looks to me that unless the double helical lock washer that goes between the bell housing mount and the inner transom mount is broken or missing there should be no issue .

If the rubber wears out the engine would have side to side slop and not up/down slop unless the inner steel sleeve has been crushed/damaged etc..

Maybe someone could explain this "sagging" that has been mentioned. what "sags" other than my stomach!!
 
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kghost said:
After taking a closer look at the inner transom assembly (link is for 1987 but is good for visual)

http://www.marineengine.com/parts/m...-1987/0b525982-thru-0b773304/flywheel-housing


The rubber bushing/mount referred to looks to only have lateral (side to side/rotational) movement. No vertical movement as the center of the bushing has a steel sleeve. Does this steel sleeve go all the way thru the bushing or is it two pieces and when the bolts are tightened it compresses it?

I have never gone that far into a inner transom assembly and removed or had to replace these "bushings".

If the sleeve is one piece it looks to me that unless the double helical lock washer that goes between the bell housing mount and the inner transom mount is broken or missing there should be no issue .

If the rubber wears out the engine would have side to side slop and not up/down slop unless the inner steel sleeve has been crushed/damaged etc..

Maybe someone could explain this "sagging" that has been mentioned. what "sags" other than my stomach!!
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Jack,
When the rubber part wears the bell housing falls down on top of the fiber washer. The inner sleeve is attached to the outer sleeve with rubber.
 
Docksidemarineservices said:
Jack,
When the rubber part wears the bell housing falls down on top of the fiber washer. The inner sleeve is attached to the outer sleeve with rubber.
Click to expand...

I get the inner sleeve is bonded to the rubber bushing similar to a coupler/old style prop, What I don't get is if the sleeve is all one piece or two piece?

If a one piece sleeve then wouldn't the sleeve act as a spacer so to speak regardless of the rubber?

I am not disputing anything here just trying to get a better understanding on this bushing.
 
Jack, the inner sleeve is 1 piece, encased in rubber bonded to a thin outer shell that is pressed into the housing.The sleeve sits on the washer to set the rear height. When the rubber "unbonds" from the sleeve the rear mounts drop down causing the rear housing to rest on the transom housing`s fiber washers also forcing the coupler down resting on the inputshaft making drive removal difficult.
31R8xU8drHL.jpg
 
Like I said I install the fibers without glue to allow them to turn. Kind of a tell-tale if drive removal is difficult during servicing
 
Thanks

Got it. The picture of the in the parts link does not show the inner rubber bushing as barrel shaped. It shows the outer shell as a cup so to speak that is what was confusing me.

Your pictures show the rubber bushing as a barrel with no bottom on the outer shell.

Also it says in the parts diagram that two for the spacers/washers are needed. Is that one per assembly?
It looks like the bushing get installed from the bottom up on the bell housing?? If so the spacer/washer goes in first?
 
correct on the spacer ,it goes in first but for the washers:
if the bottom of the mount is smooth you need the doublewound washer, if the new mount is knurled , you may or may not need the SS washer
 
Bt Doctur said:
Like I said I install the fibers without glue to allow them to turn. Kind of a tell-tale if drive removal is difficult during servicing
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Both of mine spun but one of them had to have the weight taken off of it to do so. Obviously that is our suspect engine mount...

I went ahead and pulled the engine, took some pictures for you guys to take a look..

Engine out



Rear engine mounts, can clearly see the starboard (fiber washer did not spin) side mount is sunken in lower then port.


On the back of the engine on top there is a bracket/ plate that i believe holds the shift cables in place. i have a piece that broke off of it and am assuming the whole thing will need to be replaced but what exactly is this?




Coupler looks good but some of the splines are a bit worn, perhaps i should replace it before it becomes a problem...


What is this part and what does it do? I can see that it has hydro lines running to it from the pump so obviously has something to do with trim/ tilt? whatever it is it has been leaking oil all over the place and i don't think its a loose line or fitting but the actual part itself..





Obviously i don't expect all these questions to be answered, Im just putting it all out there!
feedback and advice on things i should do while the engines out are super appreciated!

thanks everyone
 
Well it`s an oldie but a goodie. pics 8 and 9 are of the "reverse lockout valve" designed to lock the drive when shifted into reverse so it dosent pop up .Agree with the bushing pic, one does look different, can confirm by measuring the difference in the height.
Might consider reconditioning the starter
 
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Bt Doctur said:
Well it`s an oldie but a goodie. pics 8 and 9 are of the "reverse lockout valve" designed to lock the drive when shifted into reverse so it dosent pop up .Agree with the bushing pic, one does look different, can confirm by measuring the difference in the height.
Might consider reconditioning the starter
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you are the man! Agree on the starter..
thanks
 
Does anyone see any sense in cleaning out the manifolds? I'm definitely doing the risers just don't want to mess with the manifolds if I don't have to..
 
Bt Doctur said:
Couldnt hurt to remove the end caps and look inside
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said screw it and pulled em, some stuff came it but nothing to be concerned with. Interesting that only the port side manifold had water in it and a decent amount.. Should I acid bath them like the risers? I'm also a bit concerned with pieces of my blown up impeller lurking somewhere in there still just waiting to kill my summer..

Any suggestions ?
then I swear for the 50th time I will leave you alone.
 
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805HD said:
said screw it and pulled em, some stuff came it but nothing to be concerned with. Interesting that only the port side manifold had water in it and a decent amount.. Should I acid bath them like the risers? I'm also a bit concerned with pieces of my blown up impeller lurking somewhere in there still just waiting to kill my summer..

Any suggestions ?
then I swear for the 50th time I will leave you alone.
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Look here.............if you can get the rams horn (exhaust tubes to transom to match) the go with this!!


https://worcester.craigslist.org/bpo/6183102054.html
 
It looks like you have the same boat as I do( or very similar), mine is a 20' 260 HP 1978 Searay. I have been in your shoes more than once. I am not a boat mechanic but I know mine inside and out having had it now for over 30 years and have done all the (trial and error) repairs myself. First, the broken piece is the Shift Bracket swing arm which actuates the "kill" switch, which momentarily cuts power to the coil in order to allow the outdrive to shift out of reverse. You could attempt a repair using JB weld if you can't find a replacement at a boat scrap yard. It will have pressure exerted by the metal spring when engaged but it is not constant. I have never tried to rebuild the reverse shift lock out so I'm not sure if it is a gasket or o rings that are causing a leak there. The grease that is evident is pretty normal after the gimbal bearing has been over grease and slung off inside the transom. Do check the flapper valves which are low in the exhaust Y as more than likely they don't exist anymore or are in bad shape. I also developed a corrosion problem on the lower part of the Y pipe where it connects to the transom assembly that couldn't really be seen until I removed the Y to replace the flappers. I had to replace the T. If you want to replace the limit switch and trim indicators now would be the time as those wires sticking out of the transom assembly are definitely shot. The coupler looks like original and I would do the change now unless you like pulling the engine. The gimbal bearing would be easier to replace now if it is older or original. All of the steering linkage needs to be lubed. If you have any shifting issues now would be the time to replace lower shift cable and also check bellows on drive and bellows on shift cable for condition issues. Intake hose and water pickup pump as well.
As far as your original problem goes... are you sure the front mounts are back to their original location meaning down tight to the stringers and not elevated more than they were when you started. I'm wondering why you decided to replace them in the first place, if it was only a matter of looseness or rot or something with the lags needing to be addressed. You said you are sure the mounts are the same. If they were different at all or not down tight it could be your whole alignment issue. You say you cannot get the front of the engine down far enough to allow the alignment. This sound suspect as I believe you should have plenty of room on the mounting bolts to make the necessary adjustment. It looks to me that the bushings in the back are slightly different but I don't believe this is where the issue lies. I did the same thing myself, changing them, only to find the problem elsewhere. When you put this back together, pay attention to the diagrams others have provided of the bolt washer spring sequence because it makes all the difference in alignment a quarter of an inch will stop it from being correct and you don't want to compound your problem. I hope this helps some.Good luck.
 
markbabb said:
It looks like you have the same boat as I do( or very similar), mine is a 20' 260 HP 1978 Searay. I have been in your shoes more than once. I am not a boat mechanic but I know mine inside and out having had it now for over 30 years and have done all the (trial and error) repairs myself. First, the broken piece is the Shift Bracket swing arm which actuates the "kill" switch, which momentarily cuts power to the coil in order to allow the outdrive to shift out of reverse. You could attempt a repair using JB weld if you can't find a replacement at a boat scrap yard. It will have pressure exerted by the metal spring when engaged but it is not constant. I have never tried to rebuild the reverse shift lock out so I'm not sure if it is a gasket or o rings that are causing a leak there. The grease that is evident is pretty normal after the gimbal bearing has been over grease and slung off inside the transom. Do check the flapper valves which are low in the exhaust Y as more than likely they don't exist anymore or are in bad shape. I also developed a corrosion problem on the lower part of the Y pipe where it connects to the transom assembly that couldn't really be seen until I removed the Y to replace the flappers. I had to replace the T. If you want to replace the limit switch and trim indicators now would be the time as those wires sticking out of the transom assembly are definitely shot. The coupler looks like original and I would do the change now unless you like pulling the engine. The gimbal bearing would be easier to replace now if it is older or original. All of the steering linkage needs to be lubed. If you have any shifting issues now would be the time to replace lower shift cable and also check bellows on drive and bellows on shift cable for condition issues. Intake hose and water pickup pump as well.
As far as your original problem goes... are you sure the front mounts are back to their original location meaning down tight to the stringers and not elevated more than they were when you started. I'm wondering why you decided to replace them in the first place, if it was only a matter of looseness or rot or something with the lags needing to be addressed. You said you are sure the mounts are the same. If they were different at all or not down tight it could be your whole alignment issue. You say you cannot get the front of the engine down far enough to allow the alignment. This sound suspect as I believe you should have plenty of room on the mounting bolts to make the necessary adjustment. It looks to me that the bushings in the back are slightly different but I don't believe this is where the issue lies. I did the same thing myself, changing them, only to find the problem elsewhere. When you put this back together, pay attention to the diagrams others have provided of the bolt washer spring sequence because it makes all the difference in alignment a quarter of an inch will stop it from being correct and you don't want to compound your problem. I hope this helps some.Good luck.
Click to expand...


One correction, the shift interrupter switch (your Kill switch) activates when shifting OUT of either forward or reverse. Not just reverse.
 
markbabb said:
It looks like you have the same boat as I do( or very similar), mine is a 20' 260 HP 1978 Searay. I have been in your shoes more than once. I am not a boat mechanic but I know mine inside and out having had it now for over 30 years and have done all the (trial and error) repairs myself. First, the broken piece is the Shift Bracket swing arm which actuates the "kill" switch, which momentarily cuts power to the coil in order to allow the outdrive to shift out of reverse. You could attempt a repair using JB weld if you can't find a replacement at a boat scrap yard. It will have pressure exerted by the metal spring when engaged but it is not constant. I have never tried to rebuild the reverse shift lock out so I'm not sure if it is a gasket or o rings that are causing a leak there. The grease that is evident is pretty normal after the gimbal bearing has been over grease and slung off inside the transom. Do check the flapper valves which are low in the exhaust Y as more than likely they don't exist anymore or are in bad shape. I also developed a corrosion problem on the lower part of the Y pipe where it connects to the transom assembly that couldn't really be seen until I removed the Y to replace the flappers. I had to replace the T. If you want to replace the limit switch and trim indicators now would be the time as those wires sticking out of the transom assembly are definitely shot. The coupler looks like original and I would do the change now unless you like pulling the engine. The gimbal bearing would be easier to replace now if it is older or original. All of the steering linkage needs to be lubed. If you have any shifting issues now would be the time to replace lower shift cable and also check bellows on drive and bellows on shift cable for condition issues. Intake hose and water pickup pump as well.
As far as your original problem goes... are you sure the front mounts are back to their original location meaning down tight to the stringers and not elevated more than they were when you started. I'm wondering why you decided to replace them in the first place, if it was only a matter of looseness or rot or something with the lags needing to be addressed. You said you are sure the mounts are the same. If they were different at all or not down tight it could be your whole alignment issue. You say you cannot get the front of the engine down far enough to allow the alignment. This sound suspect as I believe you should have plenty of room on the mounting bolts to make the necessary adjustment. It looks to me that the bushings in the back are slightly different but I don't believe this is where the issue lies. I did the same thing myself, changing them, only to find the problem elsewhere. When you put this back together, pay attention to the diagrams others have provided of the bolt washer spring sequence because it makes all the difference in alignment a quarter of an inch will stop it from being correct and you don't want to compound your problem. I hope this helps some.Good luck.
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hey man thank you for taking the time to write all that. Good stuff and it's appreciated. The reason I changed the mounts is because the original starboard side mount was starting to bend slightly. Figured they had been in that boat for a while.

I marked the mounts footprints then raised the engine and removed them. With the engine raised I drilled out the old broken off lag bolts down in the stringer leaving 1 1/2 inch holes that go down to the bottoms of the stringer. 1/2 inch stainless steel rods with a washer at the bottom inserted and filled with 3M 5200. New mounts were set in place then I just lowered the engine back down on top of them and let it cure. The engine centered its own mounts. Basically
 
805HD said:
hey man thank you for taking the time to write all that. Good stuff and it's appreciated. The reason I changed the mounts is because the original starboard side mount was starting to bend slightly. Figured they had been in that boat for a while.

I marked the mounts footprints then raised the engine and removed them. With the engine raised I drilled out the old broken off lag bolts down in the stringer leaving 1 1/2 inch holes that go down to the bottoms of the stringer. 1/2 inch stainless steel rods with a washer at the bottom inserted and filled with 3M 5200. New mounts were set in place then I just lowered the engine back down on top of them and let it cure. The engine centered its own mounts. Basically
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If the 1 inch pipe you are inserting is way off from center, it would seem your alignment tool would also be off from center. I would insert my alignment tool into the gimbal and move the gimbal center until the end you are holding is centered with the circle/hole where the outdrive/shaft would slide in between the mounting bolts as in your picture you took with the pipe sticking out. Pick the front of the engine up with your hoist till it is about midway on the mounting bolt with the nut at the bottom of the mounting bolt. Insert the tool and read the marks, move the front of the engine up or down with the hoist until you can insert the tool all the way in and pull out with only two fingers. Run the mounting nuts up and add the top nuts and tighten. Recheck the resistance on the alignment tool again and if nothing moved you should be ready remount the outdrive. Yours will have the two o-rings on the input shaft and will have some resistance getting the shaft to seat all the way in and a good bump with you foot may be needed. I 'm not mentioning now all the prep you would do with the gasket, water inlet o-ring or shifter positioning that I hope your aware of. You have a great classic boat that you should enjoy for a long time to come.
 
markbabb said:
If the 1 inch pipe you are inserting is way off from center, it would seem your alignment tool would also be off from center. I would insert my alignment tool into the gimbal and move the gimbal center until the end you are holding is centered with the circle/hole where the outdrive/shaft would slide in between the mounting bolts as in your picture you took with the pipe sticking out. Pick the front of the engine up with your hoist till it is about midway on the mounting bolt with the nut at the bottom of the mounting bolt. Insert the tool and read the marks, move the front of the engine up or down with the hoist until you can insert the tool all the way in and pull out with only two fingers. Run the mounting nuts up and add the top nuts and tighten. Recheck the resistance on the alignment tool again and if nothing moved you should be ready remount the outdrive. Yours will have the two o-rings on the input shaft and will have some resistance getting the shaft to seat all the way in and a good bump with you foot may be needed. I 'm not mentioning now all the prep you would do with the gasket, water inlet o-ring or shifter positioning that I hope your aware of. You have a great classic boat that you should enjoy for a long time to come.
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Got it. I'm currently waiting on parts so kind of at a stand still till the engines back in the boat! I got all the gaskets and orings I should need. Hopefully things go smoothly. I absolutely love this boat even though I had it on the water for only ten minutes and ever since then it's been a giant problem lol still love it!

I think in the long run it's a good thing I pulled the engine. Great time to freshen things up, learn how my boat works and fix some of this redneck engineering along the way! Haha
 
Bt Doctur said:
May want to practice with the alignment bar and coupler to see how easy it should go in and the see the grease marks
Click to expand...

HA! Already did!

Do the hoses running between my thermostat housing and exhaust manifolds/ risers look backwards to you? Or atleast routed weird?

 
Bt Doctur said:
Yes they do
Click to expand...


Interesting, looks to me like it was sending water to the manifold rather then the elbow before the stat opens.. I don't think this would cause a immediate problem if any at all... where do i get my hands on that manual?

But then again what the heck do I know!?
Easy fix. Thanks!
 
I see two hoses are switched positions, the top hose from the thermostat housing should route to the exhaust elbow. Just swap positions and its right.
 
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