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Distributor upgrade

old_school

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Hi gentlemen, love the forum. I have a 1979 32’ Marinette with twin 318s that we have owned for the last 10 years. In that time the only upgrade to the engines has been the replacement of the carter afb’s to 1409’s about 4 years ago thanks to your information here. In my opinion the original carburetion on the 318’s was a weak link as is the original Chrysler distributors due to the maintence and adjustment needed. The questions I have are; will I be as happy with the upgrade to a Mallory distributor (or some other brand) as I was with the carburetor upgrade? Does the Mallory have the spring and weight system for timing advance like the Chrysler? Please explain what the VR triggering system is and how it works. Thanks in advance for all your comments and explanations.
 
Good questions!
Chrysler pioneered the VR (variable reluctor) magnetic triggering system in the 70s and in their automotive line.
VR is a tried and proven system, and very seldom lets us down in either Automotive or Marine.
Depending on what Ignitions you now have, they may be VR.

Mallory's YLM series is VR, and does use mechanical advance, as likely do your 1979 OEM systems.

The Mallory YLU is photo eye triggering.
If you are OK with photo eye, the advancing system will be similar to the YLM.
(VR is magnetic.... photo eye uses an infra red light beam)

The weak link with any mechanically advancing type ignition system as they age, will be a worn advancing system......, ranging from shaft/bushing wear, flyweight return spring failure, sticky components, etc.... any of which may cause the advance to no longer meet the OEM curve/limit.
(one of my pet peeves with installing a conversion kit, without having the curve/limit checked on a Distributor Machine :mad: )


Now we have EST (electronic spark timing) systems to look at, such as the Delco Voyager, and several others.
Most of these use "Photo Eye" triggering.... but with NO mechanical advance.
The advance is accomplished via an electronic module.
(if you are OK with turning over your advance to electronic circuitry, then this may be for you!)

My personal choice would be to stay with mechanical advance for these older engines.


Then you'll have HEI (high energy ignition) to consider. I believe that most of these will be photo eye triggering.
Advance is again accomplished via an electronic module.

IMOO, HEI is unnecessary for our lower RPM cruiser engines..... your call on that!

*************************

What ever you do, find the progressive advance specs for these engines, and the limit RPM at which the advance is "full in".
Then after setting BASE, increase RPM and strobe your timing marks and jot down the numbers at 200/300 RPM increments up to approximately 3.2k rpm.... (or where the advance has reached "full in").
Compare these numbers to your OEM ignition advance curve/limit.
Make adjustments accordingly.

Incorrect ignition advance will hold back performance.
The ignition must give the correct curve and TA, for any power to be had.

Remember...... a TA number is worthless without be accompanied with an RPM.
Example ONLY: 26* total advance @ 3,200 rpm
So when you check TA (total advance), make certain that it is Full In no sooner, nor later, than what the OEM specifies in crankshaft degrees.


Do this, and you'll take advantage of the correct ignition advance (= performance), and reduce the risk of Marine Load Detonation Damage. :)


Edit: you asked about VR triggering and how it works, so I'll nut shell this for you:

The reluctor for a V-8 has 8 precisionally machined magnetically charged points to it.
It rotates one half engine RPM.
As each point passes within a pre-determined distance from the sensor unit, the sensor causes the circuitry to collapse the coil's primary field (the triggering event), sending a secondary high voltage spark out via cap/rotor/plug wires etc.

mag_pulse_gen.gif


Basically, it is performing the same task as mechanical points, but much more efficiently and precisionally.
Triggering is not as greatly affected by high RPM, and wear is a non-issue.
Dwell Angle (aka coil saturation) is controlled by the sensor to reluctor tip clearance dimension, and will be "Pre-Set".
 
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.."The questions I have are; will I be as happy with the upgrade to a Mallory distributor (or some other brand) as I was with the carburetor upgrade? Does the Mallory have the spring and weight system for timing advance like the Chrysler? "

IF--repeat--IF you have points ignition, ANY electronic distributor will make your day! But if you already have the Prestolite electronic distributor, and it's set up right, you will be disappointed (and your wallet lightened). Only fully electronic distributors get rid of the springs and weightsd (substituting a computer program instead. The Mallorys have the springs and weights.)


I too have a 32 Marinette, an 85, and the stock units seem to work just fine.

Jeff
 
Wow, great information and clarification Rick.

Thanks Jeff for your input and sorry I did not state that these are electronic distributors that I have.

The obvious conclusion is that the Mallory’s (YLM) use the same technology as the Chrysler OEM’s and the only benefit gain would be from the fact of using a new piece of equipment vs. a 32-year-old piece of equipment. True?

Thanks,
Gary
 
The obvious conclusion is that the Mallory’s (YLM) use the same technology as the Chrysler OEM’s and the only benefit gain would be from the fact of using a new piece of equipment vs. a 32-year-old piece of equipment. True?
Yes..... given the 32 years, I'd be checking these or replacing them.

VR is what Chrysler has been using for years in automotive. If your Marine Ignitions are VR, then this is what you have now.
If Prestolite, then they may be "VR" or "Hall Effect"!

Gary, in today's market, all ignition systems can be considered "electronic".
However, we have what Jeff refers to, of which is actually an EST system (aka Electric Spark Timing) that provides the advancing (again as Jeff mentions), all via an electronic module.

Basically, the EST performs the progressive advance, but with no moving parts.
The distributor shaft still rotates and performs the BASE ignition lead.
However, when/if a module fails, you're up a creek!

My personal preference is the mechanical, until we get into the later FI systems that require more perameters.


"The questions I have are; will I be as happy with the upgrade to a Mallory distributor (or some other brand) as I was with the carburetor upgrade? Does the Mallory have the spring and weight system for timing advance like the Chrysler? "
1.... IF--repeat--IF you have points ignition, ANY electronic distributor will make your day! But if you already have the Prestolite electronic distributor, and it's set up right, you will be disappointed (and your wallet lightened).

2.... Only fully electronic distributors get rid of the springs and weightsd (substituting a computer program instead.

3.... The Mallorys have the springs and weights.
1... Agreed, with exception to a worn or tired advancing unit!
Best case scenario (if we can call it that) ..... advance being held back (not meeting OEM specs), thus performance suffers, WOT RPM can't be achieved, wasted fuel.
Worst case scenario..... advance coming on too early (rusty/weak flyweight springs), putting your engine at risk of Detonation!

Short of no oil pressure and/or over-heating, Marine load "Detonation" is the Marine Gasser's worst enemy! :mad:

2... yep, aka EST!

3.... Well, perhaps a bit of clarification here.
Mallory's electronic YLM (VR) or YLU (photo-eye) series will maintain mechanical advance (springs and flyweights).
MAL9-26000_thumb.jpg





Mallory's YLE (of which may be Delco or a Delco copy) HEI system, is EST..... (no springs or flyweights).
(I believe that these are mostly photo-eye)
maa-yle624av_w.jpg


I don't believe that HEI would be required for these engines. Your call on that!

You could also take your 32 year old ignition distributors in and have them rebuilt.
They can be re-bushed, the curves/limits re-set, etc., by a shop who owns and operates an old school Sun machine.
The right Tech can bring new life into them.
SunMachine.jpg



It all boils down to an ignition system that delivers an ideal LPCP...... (Location of Peak Cylinder Pressure) at/near 12*-14* ATDC.
Without this, we won't be able to optimize performance.


At the risk of redundancy, always set BASE advance, but go the next step and check the TA.

.
 
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Like Click and Clack the 'Tappet' brothers say on 'Car Talk'......

Find a mechanic with no teeth.....!

I've been around some Sun equipment but that's a relic for sure.
Not to long go you had those old auto electric shops that specialized
in nothing but tune ups. They could even get a 'Lean Burn' to run right,
for awhile........

jack
 
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