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Defeating 15 % ethanol

fastjeff

fastjeff

Gold Medal Contributor
Listen up folks!

The ONLY way we the people can defeat the 15 % ethanol crap is NOT to buy it! The forces of greed combined with the enviro-whackos are against us, but there still is a way out. To wit:

Cars built before 2012 are not designed for 15 %, and manufacturers have warned that warrantees will not be honored if it is used. That means every gas station MUST also sell the 10 % crap.

So here's the deal: If no one buys 15 %, the tanks at gas stations around the country will be filled with gas they can't sell. It won't be long before the gas station owners (and gas suppliers) are SCREAMING at the SOBs in Washington that stuck us with this crap. And that is how we will get rid of it.

The plan is this: If you have a 2012 or newer car, and can buy 15 %...DON'T!! If your car is on fumes, and there's no other alternative, put in the minimum you need to get to the next station. Then buy 10 %.
If we all stick together on this, WE will win!

Jeff

PS: Please pass this on to all your intelligent friends
 
I'm way ahead of you Jeff...have been refusing to buy it for years. Agree...all boaters and car/truck drivers need to boycott ethanol
 
Good man!

Unfortunately, I can't buy non-ethanol fuel in my area. But I sure as hell won't buy any of that 15 percent crap!

Jeff
 
Yea, 15% ethanol is the wonderfuel of the future! Not only will it give you WORSE fuel economy but the cost/benifit ratio of producing it is an absolute joke. Iv'e been told by people who work on small engines to stay away from 10% if I can.
 
I work on small engines.

I live in an area where E-15 (89 octane) was test marketed for a 3 year period (ended early last year). To encourage use it sold for the same price as E-10 (86/87 octane).

I ran it in four (4) of my outboards (2 strokes), my whipper snipper, lawnmower and snow blower (4 strokes) and my Truck exclusively for the 3 years it was available. Saw no ill effects - zero, zip, nada.

And to prevent a question, my "newest" outboard is a 1991, the other three that ran it were 86/86/87 models, 2 and 4 cylinder (2 Merc's and 2 Ev's).

While the debate will continue, much the same way the leaded/un-leaded one raged 30 or 40 years back (memory is slipping a bit) AND I have no opinion one way or the other as to whether the product is viable, should/should not be produced - whether it's good/bad/ugly or indifferent, from my own personal "first hand" use (not heard from "some guy") - I have found it to be no better or worse than any of the other fuels calling themselves "gas" suitable for use in outboards (or any other engine for that matter).
 
Obviously, Graham, you are running an INBOARD boat with vented fuel tanks. (I also assume you are dosing the fuel with a stabilizer?)

Also, you mentioned that the 15 % was being sold for the same price as the 10 %. That's swell until you realize you're still getting screwed since there's less oomph! in the 10 %. My inboard boat (with its FloScan) recorded a 1/2 gph loss of fuel economy going from ethanol free gas to the 10 % crap.

And don't get me started on the problems I've had with it (and in this I am not alone. Check out the inboard section for ethanol horror stories.) Worse of all, the effect of ethanol created "White Gook" is cumulative! Every year more builds up the tanks, with year 4 (last year) the worse yet. I had stumbling and stalling problems virtually every time I left the slip.

Jeff

PS: Note the layer of white crap at the bottom of the container pictured. Not only will it not burn with any known additive, it yet goes right through fuel filters. Thanks a lot Federal Government!
 

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From everything that I have read and heard about it and the problems attributed to its use it seems that using it only becomes a problem when the fuel isn't used within a short time period. I will admit that I did use 2 tanks of E85 while traveling in Nebraska during 2006 in a flex fuel engine w/o any noticeable problems. High humidity seems to be its nemesis.
 
Jeff, I do realize that you burn more E-10 to get the same mileage compared "non-enhanced" fuel, which is exactly why the E-15 had the increased octane - to get us back to the sub-performing gas that is currently "all that is available" at least in my piece of the country.

And that is part of my point. I can not get "regular" (non-E10). E-15 is coming, at least for me, like it or not.

And further, all I can do is relate "my experience". So perhaps you have a first hand issue and know others who do. I can not state the same.

So if I am asked "is E-15 bad for my outboard" I can only answer - "I have personally seen no evidence that it is and I can state that after running it for three seasons".

And yes, I run stabilizer in my built-in (twin 40 gal) tanks that feed my 140, but not in my portable tanks (15/9.9/2.5) because the left-over from the portable goes in my truck (it doesn't mind 50:1 premix) which ensures that I have fresh gas each time out.

But can't say I have had an issue with my built-in's, and this is the end of the 4th season - 3 yrs with E-15 and last summer/fall with E-10 (and E-10 for at least the past 10 or 12 years prior to that).

So Jeff, not that I dis-believe you or think you are pulling a "chicken-little", just have not experienced an issue as of yet...
 
Graham:

The magic word here is "vented" tanks. I keep my OB tank vent closed tightly when it's not running (and occasionally forget to...you know). That keeps the moisture out of the 10 % ethanol gas, and I haven't had any "White Gook" problems there after 3 or 4 years.

HOWEVER, that is NOT the case with my inboard boat; it's tanks by law are vented, and the ethanol crap has been a nightmare. I'm constantly having to flush the carbs on my boat to get that "white Gook" build up out of them, so the motors don't stumble and stall. And the build up is getting worse each season as it accumulates. (I plan to attempt a pump out and purge for this season coming up--its gotten that bad.

Finally, I've seen fairly new FP diaphragms suddenly start leaking, and I've seen one year old gas hose crumble away thanks to 10 % ethanol. Eventually, better materials will be available to cure that problem but if 15 % comes along we may be right back in trouble.

Finally, to guyjg, do you realize how poor the gas mileage was running on E85? I hope you paid about 75 % of what 10 % gas cost, 'cause your $ per mile were horrendous.

Jeff
 
to guyjg, do you realize how poor the gas mileage was running on E85?
Click to expand...
I barely remember it and yes it was much cheaper...$.35-$.40 per gallon. My mechanic friend said the only good thing about it is it cleans the fuel injectors well on flex fuel vehicles.

I reviewed some of Merc's. E15 engine test results...interesting results especially the Verado engine. There was a comment about E15 "washing" the oil off of 2 stroke components.
 
I read the Merc tests as well but also read all the disclaimers. While I don't totally discount their results I sure would have liked to see a 3rd party go into a dealer and pick a couple of motors "off the shelf" to run the tests.

When a company may have to redesign or re-engineer something, at their cost, they can find every reason possible not to, so I always take "self test" results with a pinch (like I have mentioned, I remember all the back and forth when lead was removed from the gas - now Merc has numerous bulletins out telling you why leaded gas is an evil outboard killing substance - perspective).

I do have one question for you guys "south of the border". Is it true that if you put E-85 in a glass bottle with a fancy label it's name changes to Bourbon??? :)
 
It still has 15% gasoline in it...only a desperate drunk would drink it. I have heard of mountain folk using pure shine as vehicle fuel.
 
My 2 cycle OB engine serv manual and most of the owners manuals I get with the small "around the house usage" 2 and 4 strokers say that their engines are designed for E10 max. My '11 P/U is an E85 Flex Fuel so I guess other than reduced mileage it won't get hurt by it.

Mark
 
e-10 destroyed FOOD prices so you might as well go ahead and drink e-15 and up because the farmers are growing for the big oil companies now anyway. No food for you to eat. i guess we can blame that on GEORGE B TOO!
 
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